F that idea. F trading Geno too.
- madmike71

X100

No Geno trade. No tanking. Tanking is wack.

Captain obvious here to report we are a two man team, as if we didn't know. No depth. Ugh!

http://sports.yahoo.com/b...in-trouble-125747961.html

It seemed the Pens had a hell of a time finding a coach last year. I cant see MJ being fired unless Babcock is a sure thing, he has to WANT to come here too. Its not just throwing money at him. Plenty of teams will do that.

Issues after this season:
1. Sutter-Desperate need for a 3C
2. Bottom 6-Winnik, Comeau, Downie, Lap are UFA's, BB, Spaling are not that great. Outside of Winnik Comeau and Downie the rest can leave with Sutter
3. Defense-Letang, Maata, is there the D stops, Lovejoy is meh, resign Cole if you can move Scuds, Hoff and Martin arent worth whta they can bring in.
4. Top 6-Kuni is not top 6 any more, Dupes might be done for his career, Comeau is a 3rd liner. That leaves 2 holes in the top 6.

Thats quite a few problems to have when you will get no help from youth development. I dont see this team getting better next year.

Captain obvious here to report we are a two man team, as if we didn't know. No depth. Ugh!

http://sports.yahoo.com/b...in-trouble-125747961.html
- powerhouse

I didn't bother to read it. I don't believe Sid, Geno and Letang's contracts have anything to do with lack of depth.

However, you can't throw money away on below average players. For as much sh!t as Gunner takes on here, this has long been his primary theme.

Sutter and Spaling making 5.5 mil for being soft and ineffectual.

Kuni and Dupes taking up nearly 8 mil at their ages is terrible. Should have chosen one and let the other walk.

Hoff was a luxury signing at 4 mil in hindsight.

Scuds....3.3 for him. Nuff said.

That's a lot of money to piss away if depth is a problem.

I didn't bother to read it. I don't believe Sid, Geno and Letang's contracts have anything to do with lack of depth.

However, you can't throw money away on below average players. For as much sh!t as Gunner takes on here, this has long been his primary theme.

Sutter and Spaling making 5.5 mil for being soft and ineffectual.

Kuni and Dupes taking up nearly 8 mil at their ages is terrible. Should have chosen one and let the other walk.

Hoff was a luxury signing at 4 mil in hindsight.

Scuds....3.3 for him. Nuff said.

That's a lot of money to piss away if depth is a problem.
- madmike71

I think there are 2 ways to look at it. Sure all those contracts are bad, but you still have to balance the books. Shero made some bad moves as you mentioned but 87 i sstill the highest cap hit to win a cup in the cap era, now 71 makes more than him. I think you can have a solid team with those 3 but you need to always have ELC's to fill the gaps which the Pens dont have. The question is which is better, having a few great players or a bunch of really good players?

I didn't bother to read it. I don't believe Sid, Geno and Letang's contracts have anything to do with lack of depth.

However, you can't throw money away on below average players. For as much sh!t as Gunner takes on here, this has long been his primary theme.

Sutter and Spaling making 5.5 mil for being soft and ineffectual.

Kuni and Dupes taking up nearly 8 mil at their ages is terrible. Should have chosen one and let the other walk.

Hoff was a luxury signing at 4 mil in hindsight.

Scuds....3.3 for him. Nuff said.

That's a lot of money to piss away if depth is a problem.
- madmike71

This is a synopsis of what we have seen on this blog for a while. You can't win without a supporting cast at value. This team hasn't had that. This season they started to make an attempt and for the most part did that, but guys like Comeau are depth, same with Winnik. They can't be top six options for long periods of time.

Comeau has regressed back to his normal shooting % and because of that needs to be dropped down. It won't happen but it should

please dont kick us while were down
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I had zero interest in Kulemin in the offseason. He was garbage last year and below average the year before. Since his 30-goal season, no great shakes.

I didn't bother to read it. I don't believe Sid, Geno and Letang's contracts have anything to do with lack of depth.

However, you can't throw money away on below average players. For as much sh!t as Gunner takes on here, this has long been his primary theme.

Sutter and Spaling making 5.5 mil for being soft and ineffectual.

Kuni and Dupes taking up nearly 8 mil at their ages is terrible. Should have chosen one and let the other walk.

Hoff was a luxury signing at 4 mil in hindsight.

Scuds....3.3 for him. Nuff said.

That's a lot of money to piss away if depth is a problem.
- madmike71

Kuni and dupuis making what they do is not a problem. Please find another player at 3.7 mil who has produced as much as Kuni the last 3 years. Worst comes to worst, you drop dupuis and Kunitz on the 3rd line next season. It's not like dupuis broke his leg and hasn't been able to skate. He's been skating, he's been around the team, and he will be a great depth player if he can come back fully healthy. If you want sundqvist to succeed, play him with kuni and dupes

I didn't bother to read it. I don't believe Sid, Geno and Letang's contracts have anything to do with lack of depth.

However, you can't throw money away on below average players. For as much sh!t as Gunner takes on here, this has long been his primary theme.

Sutter and Spaling making 5.5 mil for being soft and ineffectual.

Kuni and Dupes taking up nearly 8 mil at their ages is terrible. Should have chosen one and let the other walk.

Hoff was a luxury signing at 4 mil in hindsight.

Scuds....3.3 for him. Nuff said.

That's a lot of money to piss away if depth is a problem.
- madmike71

Having top end contracts makes it harder, but the Penguins aren't doing themselves any favors either. Trying to retool depth every year on one year contracts is nice in not locking the team into bad contracts, but I'm not confident Rutherford is going to get such cost-effective depth players every year. Shero certainly didn't. And when he doesn't, it leaves major lineup gaps before injuries are even factored in.

Having top end contracts makes it harder, but the Penguins aren't doing themselves any favors either. Trying to retool depth every year on one year contracts is nice in not locking the team into bad contracts, but I'm not confident Rutherford is going to get such cost-effective depth players every year. Shero certainly didn't. And when he doesn't, it leaves major lineup gaps before injuries are even factored in.
- jfkst1

Free Agency is arguably the worst possible way to rebuild a team. You pay a premium for last years performance. Outside of Sundquest and Kap who might not be ready next year there is nothing in development to help out. So that leaves FA or trade to fill the holes.

I think there are 2 ways to look at it. Sure all those contracts are bad, but you still have to balance the books. Shero made some bad moves as you mentioned but 87 i sstill the highest cap hit to win a cup in the cap era, now 71 makes more than him. I think you can have a solid team with those 3 but you need to always have ELC's to fill the gaps which the Pens dont have. The question is which is better, having a few great players or a bunch of really good players?
- sammy87

That's what I'm saying... I don't think it's an either/or type of thing. I think you can have a handful of high priced stars, but you can't mangle your draft and throw away money on bad/aging players.

Trading Geno or Sid is a non-starter for me. Generational centers are the rarest commodity in the NHL.

That's what I'm saying... I don't think it's an either/or type of thing. I think you can have a handful of high priced stars, but you can't mangle your draft and throw away money on bad/aging players.

Trading Geno or Sid is a non-starter for me. Generational centers are the rarest commodity in the NHL.
- madmike71

What about looking at like this if 71 can put up 100 pts for 9.5, but 2 guys together can put up 140 pts for the same price which is better?

What about looking at like this if 71 can put up 100 pts for 9.5, but 2 guys together can put up 140 pts for the same price which is better?
- sammy87

So prejudice towards russians

Lets fix your statement above to see if you like it better:

"What about looking at like this if 87 can put up 100 pts for 8.7, but 2 guys together can put up 140 pts for the same price which is better?"

I wouldn't trade any of them just to make it perfectly clear.

That's what I'm saying... I don't think it's an either/or type of thing. I think you can have a handful of high priced stars, but you can't mangle your draft and throw away money on bad/aging players.

Trading Geno or Sid is a non-starter for me. Generational centers are the rarest commodity in the NHL.
- madmike71

Thank you

Here is a plan: let Ehrhoff/Martin walk, try to trade Scuderi's 1-year-left contract and use their money to bring a couple top 6 wingers. (I don't know who would be available though).

Re-sign Winnik, Downie and Comeau and go from there.

Free Agency is arguably the worst possible way to rebuild a team. You pay a premium for last years performance. Outside of Sundquest and Kap who might not be ready next year there is nothing in development to help out. So that leaves FA or trade to fill the holes.
- sammy87

Irrational escalation fallacy. You're right in that it is much more common to overpay than get a bargain. They got three bargains this year. Shero had a few too that worked out, but he also had many that failed. Hopefully JR is better at it than Shero, but it's still a wildly inconsistent method for filling out a roster.

Here is a plan: let Ehrhoff/Martin walk, try to trade Scuderi's 1-year-left contract and use their money to bring a couple top 6 wingers. (I don't know who would be available though).

Re-sign Winnik, Downie and Comeau and go from there.
- Barnaby36

Bergenheim and Frolik would be nice additions.

They need a 3C and they will have to find a Dman in free agency though. The thought of DP and Dumo taking regular NHL time at this point seems far fetched. Not sure if it can work cap wise.

Perron-87-PH
Frolic-71-X
Berg-X-Kuni
Spalimg-Winnik-Comeau

If Carolina was offering Jordan Staal in a package I would consider moving Horny, though Perron would be much more preferable... If a top stay at home d man was available ... say Brent Seabrook to pull a random name
- Brianandr1

What is it about Jordan Staal? You really think a 3rd line center making 6 mill makes the Penguins a better team?

What he was and will never be again is an awesome #3 center. $6 million as a 3C destroys what is already a bad cap team. Staal has got to be at least a number 2 and he isn't offensively strong enough to carry that weight.

I get rid of Sutter and give that role to Sunqvuist..If he is not ready there is better than Sutter.

If Letang and Erhoff are done, so are the Penguins. I would be frightened to see old man Ruth make major moves. Give Babcock and his GM of choice the reigns (if they are dumb enough to want it).

I don't see this trainwreck since December sitting well with Sid or Geno, one of them is likely to explode or die alive. Whatever comes first.

Here is a plan: let Ehrhoff/Martin walk, try to trade Scuderi's 1-year-left contract and use their money to bring a couple top 6 wingers. (I don't know who would be available though).

Re-sign Winnik, Downie and Comeau and go from there.
- Barnaby36

He's got two years left on that awful contract.

What about looking at like this if 71 can put up 100 pts for 9.5, but 2 guys together can put up 140 pts for the same price which is better?
- sammy87

I understand what you're saying but it's much more complicated than that. Finding a team willing to part with that kind of deal.....I don't see it. Not many teams have two 70 pt players in this low scoring NHL. Not to mention getting such players for less than 5 a year for several years. I think you're talking about a 60 pt guy, a 40 pt guy and a high pick.

I look at it this way. If one of our centers goes down for an extended period....we go from having two incredible centers to none.

Bergenheim and Frolik would be nice additions.

They need a 3C and they will have to find a Dman in free agency though. The thought of DP and Dumo taking regular NHL time at this point seems far fetched. Not sure if it can work cap wise.

Perron-87-PH
Frolic-71-X
Berg-X-Kuni
Spalimg-Winnik-Comeau
- sammy87

Now you're talking. Soderberg from the B's would be my first target in FA. I trade Sutter for a 2nd at the draft. That fixes sooooo much right there. I like Frolik too. I'd do everything in my power to unload Spaling as well.

Now you're talking. Soderberg from the B's would be my first target in FA. I trade Sutter for a 2nd at the draft. That fixes sooooo much right there. I like Frolik too. I'd do everything in my power to unload Spaling as well.
- madmike71

The X next to 71 could be Kap? Maybe Sundquest as the 4C if you can move Spaling

Peron-87-PH
Frolik-71-Kap
Kuni-X-Berg
Comeau-SUnd-Downie

I understand what you're saying but it's much more complicated than that. Finding a team willing to part with that kind of deal.....I don't see it. Not many teams have two 70 pt players in this low scoring NHL. Not to mention getting such players for less than 5 a year for several years. I think you're talking about a 60 pt guy, a 40 pt guy and a high pick.

I look at it this way. If one of our centers goes down for an extended period....we go from having two incredible centers to none.
- madmike71

The best return you'll get is something like what Seguin got for Boston. And everyone is deservingly lamenting that as a terrible trade. Malkin is 28, injury prone, has a massive contract, and is Russian with a KHL history.

Now you're talking. Soderberg from the B's would be my first target in FA. I trade Sutter for a 2nd at the draft. That fixes sooooo much right there. I like Frolik too. I'd do everything in my power to unload Spaling as well.
- madmike71

i like Frolik, Bergenheim, Soderberg as some have mentioned.

Any chance Spaling gets us a 3rd at the draft? Trading Spaling, Sutter, Kunitz at the draft for picks/prospects could definitely help.

Or look for a blockbuster...I dont care what anyone says...I still want Lucic or ROR or Staal or JvR here. Polarizing as they seem to be, we might need moves of that magnitude.

Or something crazy like Letang-Sutter for Hall-Nurse.

Could be an interesting offseason again, thats for sure.

edit -- oh yea, and I'm all for signing someone like Panarin or Tikhonov. Gotta take gambles like that right now, imo

The best return you'll get is something like what Seguin got for Boston. And everyone is deservingly lamenting that as a terrible trade. Malkin is 28, injury prone, has a massive contract, and is Russian with a KHL history.
- jfkst1

I think they'd do better than that. Boston sold low on Seguin. He had a mediocre season at the time which followed a really good season. Malkin is a proven superstar.