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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Couturier and the Player Development Conundrum
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jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Mar 30 @ 12:58 PM ET
Rosehill got himself thrown out for the 3rd.

Seeing Stortini killing penalties made me thing of Rinaldo doing the same as mini Zach.....

The Phantoms are too beligerent and not skilled enough

- Steelmanpa


Hey, they won a Calder Cup employing the hockey skills of one Frank "The Aminal" Bialowas.
J35Bacher
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 04.03.2014

Mar 30 @ 12:58 PM ET
But this is what is so good about having draft picks. This year we could really go heavy on forwards and have an abundance of guys who could be in and contributing offensively in the next few years.

We already have Nicolas Aube-Kubel who looks to be a real steal. We have Oskar Lindbloom who has had a really good year as a young player (one of the youngest if I remember correctly) in the SHL. He also had an amazing World JR's performance.

So those two guys already in our system. Say with the first pick this year we add Barzal, Marner, Meier, or Rantanen and the second first rounder we add another skilled forward like Svechnikov or Bittner...

We would then have 4 quality forward pieces in the system by the start of next year.

- jak521



You also have Bardeau who could be a bottom six type forward. Also you don't know if they bring in anymore college FA.

Plus I believe there have to be a couple deals in the offseason and you don't know what pieces come in then too.
Steelmanpa
Joined: 08.31.2008

Mar 30 @ 1:00 PM ET
But this is what is so good about having draft picks. This year we could really go heavy on forwards and have an abundance of guys who could be in and contributing offensively in the next few years.

We already have Nicolas Aube-Kubel who looks to be a real steal. We have Oskar Lindbloom who has had a really good year as a young player (one of the youngest if I remember correctly) in the SHL. He also had an amazing World JR's performance.

So those two guys already in our system. Say with the first pick this year we add Barzal, Marner, Meier, or Rantanen and the second first rounder we add another skilled forward like Svechnikov or Bittner...

We would then have 4 quality forward pieces in the system by the start of next year.

- jak521


I hope so, they can play D down there in the Murray system, but not much else
Moose_15
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Rat Patrol, PA
Joined: 02.15.2013

Mar 30 @ 1:01 PM ET
Thats actually a really interesting comparison. Both guys are solid, not really flashy, hard working two way centers.. Id be in heaven if he can get to that level in the next few seasons.
- jak521


Mikko Koivu isn't much of a finisher, but still capable of distributing the puck well and elevating his play in tougher minutes. Didn't peak till his late 20s -- but also didn't break into the league until he turned 22.

At 22 -- there's still time for Couturier to work on those parts of his game. If that's his ceiling, I'm more than willing to work through any/all growing pains.
ob18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: That matters less than you hope it does
Joined: 07.20.2007

Mar 30 @ 1:01 PM ET
Neither Couts nor B Schenn have lived up to the hype. Yet. They show glimpses but haven't put it together yet. There's still time, obviously, but right now they are might-be's. If the right deal comes along, you take a shot.
- wolfhounds


And there is also the chance that "real deal" becomes a dude when he plays here
TheGreat28
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Chadds Ford, PA
Joined: 06.20.2010

Mar 30 @ 1:02 PM ET
"When given power play time, when counterattacking rushes develop and when he's given shootout opportunities, his indecisiveness is almost palpable."

"Brind'Amour had a steely determination that he would not be denied from getting to the "greasy" scoring areas (and stopping there if the opportunity presents itself), winning scrambles around the net and ability to make the mental leap from being a "shutdown forward" to a "scoring forward" and back again as the situation arose; which is harder to do than it sounds. Why? Sometimes it involves some risk-tolerance in getting on the wrong side of the puck and in shifting mental gears very quickly."

Bill's write-up, excellent as always, has two sections that particularly stand out to me, particularly the bolded sections.

1st point. A year or two ago, I had a discussion with another poster about whether players get pigeonholed into a role. That poster thought it was a ridiculous idea, but the reality is that GMs plan out their roster given talents, potential and play; coaches get comfortable with players performing in certain roles; and perhaps most importantly, many players lock themselves in a certain role. Young players often have a desperate desire to prove themselves and to contribute. They are strong in one area, so they often stick with what works.

I think that is Couturier. He clearly knows his strengths, and his confidence soars when he's operating in the defensive zone. Given his personality, I'm sure he's working on his weaknesses. But he just can't seem to get over the mental hurdle that he can be a force on offense as well.

2nd point. Everyone seems to think that his offensive woes would be cured playing with more offensive wingers. There is some truth to that of course. But what makes more highly-skilled players the offensive juggernauts that they become is that aggressiveness, that willingness to take risks to make a play. That will come with a cost on the defensive side. That applies both to those offensive wingers as well as Couturier.

Personally, I'm not quite sure that Couturier can get over that mental hump, take enough risks and perform at the level needed to maximize those players offensive strengths. I'm also not willing to sacrifice having a true shutdown center on that 3rd line which is why I leave him in the role that he's in.
benjichronic
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Wheaton, IL
Joined: 09.22.2014

Mar 30 @ 1:03 PM ET
And you would have also tought that at least one guy would get 90 points in the NHL...

Nope. Scoring is way down across the board. That has a trickle down affect as well. Cant predict when a kid is going to have his break out year.

- jak521


Thank you. I feel like I say this every single day, when every single day, we all somehow start talking about the "busts" called coots, and brayden schenn... Nick Foligno is 27 years old and finally broke out this season... it could be next year for either of them, could be the year after, could be never. none of us have a clue yet what will happen. We could be weighed down by schenn for another 4 years, then he finally breaks out at 27 years old for all we know. For now, all we can hope is that they do actually break out, and that they do it soon.
Steelmanpa
Joined: 08.31.2008

Mar 30 @ 1:03 PM ET
Hey, they won a Calder Cup employing the hockey skills of one Frank "The Aminal" Bialowas.
- jmatchett383


Maybe this team needs some nicknames to make them more skilled & inspired

I am thinking of a scene from Slapshot in the locker room as inspiration

Jason Ack-Ack Ackeson ( WWII flak)
mayorofangrytown
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Downingtown, PA
Joined: 08.16.2006

Mar 30 @ 1:04 PM ET
But this is what is so good about having draft picks. This year we could really go heavy on forwards and have an abundance of guys who could be in and contributing offensively in the next few years.

We already have Nicolas Aube-Kubel who looks to be a real steal. We have Oskar Lindbloom who has had a really good year as a young player (one of the youngest if I remember correctly) in the SHL. He also had an amazing World JR's performance.

So those two guys already in our system. Say with the first pick this year we add Barzal, Marner, Meier, or Rantanen and the second first rounder we add another skilled forward like Svechnikov or Bittner...

We would then have 4 quality forward pieces in the system by the start of next year.

- jak521

No love for Fazleev?
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Mar 30 @ 1:04 PM ET
"When given power play time, when counterattacking rushes develop and when he's given shootout opportunities, his indecisiveness is almost palpable."

"Brind'Amour had a steely determination that he would not be denied from getting to the "greasy" scoring areas (and stopping there if the opportunity presents itself), winning scrambles around the net and ability to make the mental leap from being a "shutdown forward" to a "scoring forward" and back again as the situation arose; which is harder to do than it sounds. Why? Sometimes it involves some risk-tolerance in getting on the wrong side of the puck and in shifting mental gears very quickly."

Bill's write-up, excellent as always, has two sections that particularly stand out to me, particularly the bolded sections.

1st point. A year or two ago, I had a discussion with another poster about whether players get pigeonholed into a role. That poster thought it was a ridiculous idea, but the reality is that GMs plan out their roster given talents, potential and play; coaches get comfortable with players performing in certain roles; and perhaps most importantly, many players lock themselves in a certain role. Young players often have a desperate desire to prove themselves and to contribute. They are strong in one area, so they often stick with what works.

I think that is Couturier. He clearly knows his strengths, and his confidence soars when he's operating in the defensive zone. Given his personality, I'm sure he's working on his weaknesses. But he just can't seem to get over the mental hurdle that he can be a force on offense as well.

2nd point. Everyone seems to think that his offensive woes would be cured playing with more offensive wingers. There is some truth to that of course. But what makes more highly-skilled players the offensive juggernauts that they become is that aggressiveness, that willingness to take risks to make a play. That will come with a cost on the defensive side. That applies both to those offensive wingers as well as Couturier.

Personally, I'm not quite sure that Couturier can get over that mental hump, take enough risks and perform at the level needed to maximize those players offensive strengths. I'm also not willing to sacrifice having a true shutdown center on that 3rd line which is why I leave him in the role that he's in.

- TheGreat28


I'm not reading this right now, I'll wait for the trilogy and buy the box set.
ob18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: That matters less than you hope it does
Joined: 07.20.2007

Mar 30 @ 1:04 PM ET
Brandon Carlo – The Next Ones: NHL 2015 Draft Prospect Profile

http://thehockeywriters.c...5-draft-prospect-profile/
wolfhounds
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: dicky seamus, PA
Joined: 06.02.2009

Mar 30 @ 1:05 PM ET
And there is also the chance that "real deal" becomes a dude when he plays here
- ob18




jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Mar 30 @ 1:05 PM ET
Maybe this team needs some nicknames to make them more skilled & inspired

I am thinking of a scene from Slapshot in the locker room as inspiration

Jason Ack-Ack Ackeson ( WWII flak)

- Steelmanpa


Jason and the Akesonauts
Clawed Calude Giroux
Jake the Snake Voracek
Steve "Don't call me Perry" Mason.
Luke "I'm bad at hockey" Schenn
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Mar 30 @ 1:06 PM ET

- wolfhounds


Charles Manson???
hereticpride
New Jersey Devils
Location: HEY. Does this pole still work?, NJ
Joined: 01.14.2011

Mar 30 @ 1:06 PM ET
Draft a Center. Move Coots down in the next two years. Package Laughton with Tampa's pick, draft BPA.
ob18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: That matters less than you hope it does
Joined: 07.20.2007

Mar 30 @ 1:06 PM ET

- wolfhounds



JSaq?
TheGreat28
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Chadds Ford, PA
Joined: 06.20.2010

Mar 30 @ 1:06 PM ET
I'm not reading this right now, I'll wait for the trilogy and buy the box set.
- jmatchett383


I'm going to break up the 3rd part of the trilogy into 5 separate movies.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Mar 30 @ 1:07 PM ET
Draft a Center. Move Coots down in the next two years. Package Laughton with Tampa's pick, draft BPA.
- hereticpride


Please list all multi-step procedures in bullet form, include a "???" and have the end result be one of "get money," "get women," or "win things" or some variant thereof.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Mar 30 @ 1:08 PM ET
I'm going to break up the 3rd part of the trilogy into 5 separate movies.
- TheGreat28


Peter Jackson wants to subscribe to your newsletter.
jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Mar 30 @ 1:08 PM ET
No love for Fazleev?
- mayorofangrytown

Meh.. he and Straka could be guys that make it with the Flyers, but I dont think they odds are in their favor. At least to be offensive contributors that is.

Yes, I know Straka got a few games in already.
hereticpride
New Jersey Devils
Location: HEY. Does this pole still work?, NJ
Joined: 01.14.2011

Mar 30 @ 1:09 PM ET
Please list all multi-step procedures in bullet form, include a "???" and have the end result be one of "get money," "get women," or "win things" or some variant thereof.
- jmatchett383

I'm a trifle deaf in this ear. Please speak louder next time.
ob18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: That matters less than you hope it does
Joined: 07.20.2007

Mar 30 @ 1:09 PM ET
No love for Fazleev?
- mayorofangrytown


He's having a hell of a season, might just turn out to be a big time blessing falling as far as he did in the draft.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Mar 30 @ 1:09 PM ET
I'm a trifle deaf in this ear. Please speak louder next time.
- hereticpride


YOU!
HAVE!
NO!
MARBLES!
wolfhounds
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: dicky seamus, PA
Joined: 06.02.2009

Mar 30 @ 1:09 PM ET
JSaq?
- ob18


Hockey is a lot like bowling is all I'm saying, and we could use a dude on the team to teach the kids a thing or two about splits and line faults and performing under pressure...



Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Mar 30 @ 1:10 PM ET
JSaq?
- ob18


I'm more Walter than The Dude
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