To Calgary
2015 1st round pick (Nashville)
Kadri

To Toronto

2015 1st round pick (Calgary)
2015 3rd (Washington)
2015 2nd (Washington)

Gives Calgary upgrade in the top six and fits with the rebuild (only 24). Upgrades the Nashville 1st to a mid 1st round pick, and gives us a late 2nd round and late 3rd round pick. Calgary trades down ten positions, gives up some later picks and gets a young top six centre.
- optimus-reim

I completely understand what you are trying to show here... I'm "bathed" in the wonderfulness of the NCAA every day where I live... and you can call me biased or olde fashioned or whatever you like...

NCAA rookies are on average older than CHL graduates - which is isn't a bad thing - it is just a different thing. The goalie stats speak to this in volumes... because in general goalies take longer to incubate ...

here's the question that sums the entire marketing hype up for me....

who wins the Calder this year "Johnny Hockey or Ekblad"? well... for me its pretty simple... I'd rather have the guy who's stepped in from junior without missing a beat... over the guy who's three or four years older - AND should be more mature and ready.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Where are you based out of now? When I'm done in Cali I'll need somewhere else to go and I seem to be following where you used to be quite well

And I agree, I'd rather see the Calder go to Ekblad rather than Gaudreau. I wouldn't be averse to seeing it go to Forsberg either.

He was a 7th round pick. In 2003, if you took him 2nd overall instead of Eric Staal, you'd be fired on the spot.
- JohnFergusonJr

That's because no one scouted the NCAA at the time. Do you not realize that the number NCAA players in the NHL has increased by 50% in he last 5 years and continues to rise.

Okay let's play a game. Leafs get to have Staal or Pavelski on their team for free. Pick one right now.

Yea if you pick Staal you're on drugs.

He was a 7th round pick. In 2003, if you took him 2nd overall instead of Eric Staal, you'd be fired on the spot.
- JohnFergusonJr

exactly the age and development commentary I was making earlier.

what was Johnny Hockey - 4th round?

and then the question you should be asking yourself as a GM (hopefully prior to every pick) - how many other guys who were drafted in the 4th - 7th round were long-shots that worked out?

That's because no one scouted the NCAA at the time. Do you not realize that the number NCAA players in the NHL has increased by 50% in he last 5 years and continues to rise.

Okay let's play a game. Leafs get to have Staal or Pavelski on their team for free. Pick one right now.

Yea if you pick Staal you're on drugs.
- KesselRules

No one scouted in the NCAA in 2003? And I'm the one on drugs? Staal has a Stanley Cup to his name. Must have done something right.

Name me the NCAA graduate who has led the NHL in goals or points.

exactly the age and development commentary I was making earlier.

what was Johnny Hockey - 4th round?

and then the question you should be asking yourself as a GM (hopefully prior to every pick) - how many other guys who were drafted in the 4th - 7th round were long-shots that worked out?
- BorjeFan4Ever

Exactly. That's like taking a guy 1st overall from Siberia nobody has ever heard of because once upon a time Datsyuk was a 7th round pick.

Where are you based out of now? When I'm done in Cali I'll need somewhere else to go and I seem to be following where you used to be quite well

And I agree, I'd rather see the Calder go to Ekblad rather than Gaudreau. I wouldn't be averse to seeing it go to Forsberg either.
- lumlums

Connecticut. Where housing is still expensive (by national standards) but where you don't pay $1M for a 2 bedroom condo built of match-sticks (like the bay area).

(sees LumLums as stalker )

No one scouted in the NCAA in 2003? And I'm the one on drugs? Staal has a Stanley Cup to his name. Must have done something right.

Name me the NCAA graduate who has led the NHL in goals or points.
- JohnFergusonJr

Martin St. Louis, 2012-13

No one scouted in the NCAA in 2003? And I'm the one on drugs? Staal has a Stanley Cup to his name. Must have done something right.

Name me the NCAA graduate who has led the NHL in goals or points.
- JohnFergusonJr

Yea because the Stanley Cup is in an individual achievement. You didn't answer my question which shows you'd pick Pavelski.

You know exactly what I meant. No one spent time scouting the NCAA at the time. If not a player of Pavelski's caliber wouldn't have been drafted in the 7th round.

Points is the measure of everything right? Kessel before this season was top 3 in points in the last 3 years. That's important.


NCAA players are taught much like Swedish players and develop a two way game (which is funny since Kessel doesn't have that, but he's the anomaly).

- Fruitcakenipple

How about Kadri + JVR for Travares?

James Duthie: "Did you come at all close to getting up to that top three, and maybe getting a crack at Tavares?"

Brian Burke: "We could've done it. I mean, we could've made that pick. I think people have to understand, my ego isn't that big that I gotta be up on that stage with the first or second pick. We would have had to put Luke Schenn into the deal and I wouldn't do that. We'd rather build on it, keep the pick, pick this young man (Kadri), keep Luke, and build to go forward."

Ooops.

Connecticut. Where housing is still expensive (by national standards) but where you don't pay $1M for a 2 bedroom condo built of match-sticks (like the bay area).

(sees LumLums as stalker )
- BorjeFan4Ever

One of my high school buddies now lives in CT with his wife (who is from Hawaii). He works at UC if I recall.

I am happy that Davis seems to be a lot cheaper than many of the nearby areas

No one scouted in the NCAA in 2003? And I'm the one on drugs? Staal has a Stanley Cup to his name. Must have done something right.

Name me the NCAA graduate who has led the NHL in goals or points.
- JohnFergusonJr

Marty St Louis

Martin St. Louis, 2012-13
- lumlums

A Canadian but sure, I'll give you a free pass. Now list the CHL graduates.

Now list the CHL graduates.
- JohnFergusonJr

Now list the drugs you are on! I suspect a lot of vodka.

How about Kadri + JVR for Travares?

James Duthie: "Did you come at all close to getting up to that top three, and maybe getting a crack at Tavares?"

Brian Burke: "We could've done it. I mean, we could've made that pick. I think people have to understand, my ego isn't that big that I gotta be up on that stage with the first or second pick. We would have had to put Luke Schenn into the deal and I wouldn't do that. We'd rather build on it, keep the pick, pick this young man (Kadri), keep Luke, and build to go forward."

Ooops.
- bloatedmosquito

Now list the CHL graduates.
- JohnFergusonJr

In the last 16 years? 2 Thornton and Crosby... guess all top 5 picks should be European...

How about Kadri + JVR for Travares?

James Duthie: "Did you come at all close to getting up to that top three, and maybe getting a crack at Tavares?"

Brian Burke: "We could've done it. I mean, we could've made that pick. I think people have to understand, my ego isn't that big that I gotta be up on that stage with the first or second pick. We would have had to put Luke Schenn into the deal and I wouldn't do that. We'd rather build on it, keep the pick, pick this young man (Kadri), keep Luke, and build to go forward."

Ooops.
- bloatedmosquito

In the last 16 years? 2 Thornton and Crosby... guess all top 5 picks should be European...
- jribout

Stamkos, Tavares this year until Crosby passed him again, plenty of other CHL graduates who have led the league in goals or points or both. Far more than the NCAA that's for sure.

A Canadian but sure, I'll give you a free pass. Now list the CHL graduates.
- JohnFergusonJr

Martin St. Louis, 2003-4

Also Ovie, D. Sedin, H. Sedin; hell from 2008 until last year the Art Ross was won by either Euros or NCAA grads

- Fruitcakenipple

Yea because the Stanley Cup in an individual achievement. You didn't answer my question which shows you'd pick Pavelski.

You know exactly what I meant. No one spent time scouting the NCAA because at the time. If not a player of Pavelski's caliber wouldn't have been drafted in the 7th round.

Points is the measure of everything right? Kessel before this season was top 3 in points in the last 3 years. That's important.


NCAA players are taught much like Swedish players and develop a two way game (which is funny since Kessel doesn't have that, but he's the anomaly).
- KesselRules

No, I'd still take Staal between 2003 to now. It's only been the last 3 years that Staal has slowed down due to injuries and playing for one of the worst teams in the NHL. But up until that point, he scored 30/40 goals several times.

All you're doing right now is cherry picking. I said, find the top picks that were American born, NCAA graduates that lived up to the hype. Erik Johnson, Jack Johnson, busts, DiPietro, bust and so on. Americans are good picks but the top picks that turn out more often are the CHL trained guys.

- bloatedmosquito

Stamkos, Tavares this year until Crosby passed him again, plenty of other CHL graduates who have led the league in goals or points or both. Far more than the NCAA that's for sure.
- JohnFergusonJr

We can go back 30 years if you like but I think the argument here is that NCAA players are far more relevant in the past 10 years....

Exactly. That's like taking a guy 1st overall from Siberia nobody has ever heard of because once upon a time Datsyuk was a 7th round pick.
- JohnFergusonJr

I always find it entertaining when folks chat about the "Detroit model" or the "Detroit approach"... just the Pittsburgh model for developing their team.

Definitely Detroit waited to pick Datsyuk until the 7th round because they knew it was worth the risk - ya right. Same with Zetterberg.... definitely "gambled" until late in the draft 'cause you want to risk losing a player to another team.

And statistically Brian Leetch was an NCAA player - for one season.

There is no fool proof way to judge 17 year olds.. and predict how they will (or if they will) mature both mentally and physically.... so this baloney leading up to the draft is really just that - baloney and hype. Honestly - with very very few exceptions - does anyone know anything about some kid in Moose Jaw who has missed half the season injured? No they don't... one guy told his buddy over beers that the kid looked great in a game he saw him in last year...

and Craig Button happens to know that guys buddy. and so it goes.

the leafs are gonna get their asses handed to them tonight. 5-1 Sens.
- Zinner21

Very kind of you