It's amazing how anybody paired with Sutter just falls off the face of the earth. Both him and Lappy basically sabotage the 3rd and 4th lines.

When Malkin and Horney return, they should cobble together a 3rd line with Spaling, Winnik and Downie and put the suck brothers all on one line. That way you only have one line getting creamed every game rather than two. Play 'em 7 mins and pray.
- madmike71

It doesn't help that they are both centers, which is a position that can impact play more than forwards IMO. Adams and Sill were worse blackholes, but I don't think they were as detrimental being on the wing. If it were up to me Sutter would be the 4C and Winnik or Spaling would be the 3C.

It's amazing how anybody paired with Sutter just falls off the face of the earth. Both him and Lappy basically sabotage the 3rd and 4th lines.

When Malkin and Horney return, they should cobble together a 3rd line with Spaling, Winnik and Downie and put the suck brothers all on one line. That way you only have one line getting creamed every game rather than two. Play 'em 7 mins and pray.
- madmike71

Agreed Sutter is soft... but he s a third line center with 16 g and 28 points... Please list all the 3rd line centers in the NHL with more goals??? He s also a very good penalty killer... For me its the 3.3 million dollar cap hit that's the problem... if it was 1.7 I'm quite sure there would be 0% difference in complaining about him

Scuderi has been solid this season... My issue once again is the cap hit...

Kunitz is in a slump no doubt... Big question that none of you have answered, but ill ask it again... Where are you getting his production for 3.8 mil per? (among guys old enough for URF)?

Since most of you have the mentality of a 37 yr old soccer mom who thinks sports are for FUN!! and FAMILY!! and you probably drag your annoying snot nosed brats to the games and ruin it for everyone else here's how the Adams fight went. Ott wanted a fight, if he didn't get one he was going to run around and try to draw one. Craig Adams being a veteran hockey player who has balls(something I think most of you know nothing about) thought he would just give him the fight, he ended up doing well. Amazingly everyone in the entire arena cheered. Whether or not it had any impact on the game is irrelevant, it was that or have guys like Ott and Reaves looking to kill someone. Adams did his team a service by just taking the fight. If it impacts play or not fighting is good for hockey, people are violent by nature and they love seeing pointless violence.
Downie is the simply answer to Kunitz. Downie deserves his shot more than any other bottom six player on the team. He does more for the team than any other non core player and keeps getting shafted. Its BS.
- Grinder47

I think you highlighted something that's wrong with the NHL more than you highlighted something that Adams did right. Players shouldn't be allowed to head hunt until someone humors them. That's reckless and puts players careers at risk. I like fighting in the NHL, but not like that.

I love Downie's heart and fire, and he has the skills to be a serviceable second liner. He doesn't have the self control though. Don't get me wrong, I think Downie brings something that this team desperately needs, and I don't want him neutered. I'm not even sold that I want him to calm down at all if he's gonna be used in a bottom six roll. But if he's gonna get top six minutes, he has to behave himself. He can agitate all he wants, but he can't commit the amount of dumb poop penalties he's use to committing when getting a ton of minutes. He'd probably average 1.5 minors a game and we just can't afford to be on the pk that often.

Agreed Sutter is soft... but he s a third line center with 16 g and 28 points... Please list all the 3rd line centers in the NHL with more goals??? He s also a very good penalty killer... For me its the 3.3 million dollar cap hit that's the problem... if it was 1.7 I'm quite sure there would be 0% difference in complaining about him

Scuderi has been solid this season... My issue once again is the cap hit...

Kunitz is in a slump no doubt... Big question that none of you have answered, but ill ask it again... Where are you getting his production for 3.8 mil per? (among guys old enough for URF)?
- Brianandr1

It's not logical to assess players without their cap hits. Under that theory, we should retain Martin and Ehrhoff as well this offseason regardless of the price because they are both good players. Kunitz has been a bargain for most of his time here. I'll admit he hasn't looked good this year, but he is paid average 2nd line money for average 2nd line production.

Yep, demote the guy who is tied for 4th on the team in goal scoring to the 4th line.

Brilliant.

Yep, demote the guy who is tied for 4th on the team in goal scoring to the 4th line.

Brilliant.
- hardnosed

It would be better than watching him get bent over and Sanduskied like he was last night for 17+ minutes/game at $3.3m/yr. Arcobello costs $600k and has one goal less in 2 fewer games.

I think you highlighted something that's wrong with the NHL more than you highlighted something that Adams did right. Players shouldn't be allowed to head hunt until someone humors them. That's reckless and puts players careers at risk. I like fighting in the NHL, but not like that.

I love Downie's heart and fire, and he has the skills to be a serviceable second liner. He doesn't have the self control though. Don't get me wrong, I think Downie brings something that this team desperately needs, and I don't want him neutered. I'm not even sold that I want him to calm down at all if he's gonna be used in a bottom six roll. But if he's gonna get top six minutes, he has to behave himself. He can agitate all he wants, but he can't commit the amount of dumb poop penalties he's use to committing when getting a ton of minutes. He'd probably average 1.5 minors a game and we just can't afford to be on the pk that often.
- Victoro311

Guess you don't like playoff hockey because guys get targeted all the time. Running someone cleanly is a lot better than sticking a knee out or boarding a guy.

Guess you don't like playoff hockey because guys get targeted all the time. Running someone cleanly is a lot better than sticking a knee out or boarding a guy.
- Gerk

Honestly I wasn't even able to watch the game. I was just taking Grinder's word for it that Ott was head hunting and playing dirty. If he wasn't well then my point doesn't apply to this instance. I'm actually of the belief that people who hit cleanly shouldn't be expected to drop the gloves just because they're hitting a lot and hitting super stars. Hitting is part of the game and the harder the better. If you have to worry about getting fought every time you lay down the thunder stick, the game is gonna get pussified.


Regardless of what happened during the Blues game though its pretty hard to argue that the NHL doesn't have a problem with lack luster officiating. Calls are so whimsical which leads players to taking liberties which endangers the rest of the players. This is not good for hockey and fighting does not fix this. Guys who are inclined to play dirty are not deterred by the prospect of getting their faces bashed in because they relish those moments as well.

Honestly I wasn't even able to watch the game. I was just taking Grinder's word for it that Ott was head hunting and playing dirty. If he wasn't well then my point doesn't apply to this instance. I'm actually of the belief that people who hit cleanly shouldn't be expected to drop the gloves just because they're hitting a lot and hitting super stars. Hitting is part of the game and the harder the better. If you have to worry about getting fought every time you lay down the thunder stick, the game is gonna get pussified.


Regardless of what happened during the Blues game though its pretty hard to argue that the NHL doesn't have a problem with lack luster officiating. Calls are so whimsical which leads players to taking liberties which endangers the rest of the players. This is not good for hockey and fighting does not fix this. Guys who are inclined to play dirty are not deterred by the prospect of getting their faces bashed in because they relish those moments as well.
- Victoro311

you scored 2 goals in 20 seconds, on the second face off ott challenged him to a fight.

It would be better than watching him get bent over and Sanduskied like he was last night for 17+ minutes/game at $3.3m/yr. Arcobello costs $600k and has one goal less in 2 fewer games.
- jfkst1

F Sutter

Now sitting here thinking what a coup it would be if Panarin just magically appeared on the roster for a playoff push. I don't even think its legal, but damn.

Then again, chemistry plays so much into it. As much as I want forward depth, hasn't the ship sailed on that front at this point? How much can a guy who's never even played in the NHL (I'm thinking about Sundqvist and Kapanen here) contribute to a playoff push? Even if they had the ability, they wouldn't have had the time to learn their linemates' games.
- Victoro311

First part is easy....Step 1: have Geno call Panarin and explain how he got out of the country. Step 2: profit.


second part...RW nailed this one on twitter...Kapanen is like Beau and has to play top 6 to be effective, and the coaching staff would never let that happen. Sundqvist, is not the second coming of jesus like some here might think, but I sure as hell think he's a better option than Adams.

First part is easy....Step 1: have Geno call Panarin and explain how he got out of the country. Step 2: profit.


second part...RW nailed this one on twitter...Kapanen is like Beau and has to play top 6 to be effective, and the coaching staff would never let that happen. Sundqvist, is not the second coming of jesus like some here might think, but I sure as hell think he's a better option than Adams.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

First part is easy....Step 1: have Geno call Panarin and explain how he got out of the country. Step 2: profit.


second part...RW nailed this one on twitter...Kapanen is like Beau and has to play top 6 to be effective, and the coaching staff would never let that happen. Sundqvist, is not the second coming of jesus like some here might think, but I sure as hell think he's a better option than Adams.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

You're right and honestly if you don't understand that you're hopeless. Anyone who thinks Kap is gonna come in during the playoffs and be able to contribute is hopeless. But I still don't know about Sundqvist. I have no doubt that he's currently better than Adams. I think he's probably currently better than Lapierre. My question is who would be more effective: a better player that doesn't doesn't know the system or his linemates' styles, or a worse player that has been in the system a while and has had time to develop some semblance of chemistry with his teammates? I wish the answer was the first one, but the logical choice is probably the latter. Our best bets right now are Rust, Farnham, and Wilson. Not Sundqvist.

you scored 2 goals in 20 seconds, on the second face off ott challenged him to a fight.
- Gerk

Well then my point kind of applies. I guess Grinder was working off the assumption that if Ott wasn't humored he'd start hitting to injure. Could be a wrong assumption, but there are definitely players who do that. My point is that the NHL shouldn't allow loose cannons to run amuck like that.

You're right and honestly if you don't understand that you're hopeless. Anyone who thinks Kap is gonna come in during the playoffs and be able to contribute is hopeless. But I still don't know about Sundqvist. I have no doubt that he's currently better than Adams. I think he's probably currently better than Lapierre. My question is who would be more effective: a better player that doesn't doesn't know the system or his linemates' styles, or a worse player that has been in the system a while and has had time to develop some semblance of chemistry with his teammates? I wish the answer was the first one, but the logical choice is probably the latter. Our best bets right now are Rust, Farnham, and Wilson. Not Sundqvist.
- Victoro311

Yep. Internally I'd lean towards Megna, Rust, or Wilson for a call up. I like Farnham but we need goals and speed.

Yep. Internally I'd lean towards Megna, Rust, or Wilson for a call up. I like Farnham but we need goals and speed.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I still haven't gotten over how atrocious Megna was at the beginning of the season. I was such a big fan of his last season. I feel betrayed....

First part is easy....Step 1: have Geno call Panarin and explain how he got out of the country. Step 2: profit.


second part...RW nailed this one on twitter...Kapanen is like Beau and has to play top 6 to be effective, and the coaching staff would never let that happen. Sundqvist, is not the second coming of jesus like some here might think, but I sure as hell think he's a better option than Adams.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Like how Tangaradi, BB, Gibbons, Megna etc...were all billed to be saviors?

Like how Tangaradi, BB, Gibbons, Megna etc...were all billed to be saviors?
- sammy87

Ok don't over exaggerate. Who ever billed Gibbons or Megna to be saviors? Whoever did was delusional. I overrated Megna and saw him as a potential top 9 forward. I was wrong, but I never looked at him and said "Damn. This is what the team needs." Gibbons is a decent PK specialist when healthy. Whoever fell in love with his play while he was playing on Crosby's wing is a weirdo.

Ok don't over exaggerate. Who ever billed Gibbons or Megna to be saviors? Whoever did was delusional. I overrated Megna and saw him as a potential top 9 forward. I was wrong, but I never looked at him and said "Damn. This is what the team needs." Gibbons is a decent PK specialist when healthy. Whoever fell in love with his play while he was playing on Crosby's wing is a weirdo.
- Victoro311

Half the members on this forum wanted to build a statue of him next to 66. The tears that flowed when he wasn't signed were pathetic. I thought Megna would at least be a 4th liner, but yeah he sucks and he's one of the better WB players!

Like how Tangaradi, BB, Gibbons, Megna etc...were all billed to be saviors?
- sammy87

I see you are trying to make a point, but I'd still take any one of them over Adams.

I see you are trying to make a point, but I'd still take any one of them over Adams.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Adams and his $700k cap and 6min TOI isn't killing the Pens as much as the combo of that with BB, Sutter, vanilla performance from Spaling and Winnik are killing the Pens. Throw in Kunitz and his lack of scoring and its just a bad recipe. I dont think blame can fall on a single player, just a combo of the above and injuries are sinking the ship. Not 1 big hole, just a bunch of small ones.

you guys feeling the wild card fever?

You're right and honestly if you don't understand that you're hopeless. Anyone who thinks Kap is gonna come in during the playoffs and be able to contribute is hopeless. But I still don't know about Sundqvist. I have no doubt that he's currently better than Adams. I think he's probably currently better than Lapierre. My question is who would be more effective: a better player that doesn't doesn't know the system or his linemates' styles, or a worse player that has been in the system a while and has had time to develop some semblance of chemistry with his teammates? I wish the answer was the first one, but the logical choice is probably the latter. Our best bets right now are Rust, Farnham, and Wilson. Not Sundqvist.
- Victoro311

Agreed 100%

Adams and his $700k cap and 6min TOI isn't killing the Pens as much as the combo of that with BB, Sutter, vanilla performance from Spaling and Winnik are killing the Pens. Throw in Kunitz and his lack of scoring and its just a bad recipe. I dont think blame can fall on a single player, just a combo of the above and injuries are sinking the ship. Not 1 big hole, just a bunch of small ones.
- sammy87

Did you just blame Winnik? Go back to watching the Mighty Ducks bud

Adams and his $700k cap and 6min TOI isn't killing the Pens as much as the combo of that with BB, Sutter, vanilla performance from Spaling and Winnik are killing the Pens. Throw in Kunitz and his lack of scoring and its just a bad recipe. I dont think blame can fall on a single player, just a combo of the above and injuries are sinking the ship. Not 1 big hole, just a bunch of small ones.
- sammy87

We probably overpaid to get Winnik....but I would not lump him in with the others. He's been less physical than I thought he'd be, but he's one of a few players on the team that can win board battles.

Anyway, my point was not that Sundqvist or an AHL call up would be the savior or the missing ingredient to put us over the top. But I think in a vaccuum, there are players internally that could bring more to the table than Adams....so why not play them? Even if its only a minor overall improvement to the team, it still doesnt make sense to play worse players.