In the same way you can't judge Mason in W and L. I think the same goes to Couturier. When watching I do see a skill set as a 2nd line two way center.
- J35Bacher

Right. That's exactly what I'm saying. I've seen coots hold on to the puck while 3 defenders were trying to take it away from him. He shielded it for 10 seconds, waited for help and dished it off. He's a really good passer imo. The way he set up grossman on the goal against Detroit... really good set up. Just makes me laugh when people brush off coots (at 22 years old, in his 4th season) as just a 3rd line, defensive, penalty killing center. I'm just hoping and praying he becomes the next anze kopitar big, 2 way, playmaker. That's what I see him becoming (not as good as anze obviously). 20g 35a kinda player.

In the same way you can't judge Mason in W and L. I think the same goes to Couturier. When watching I do see a skill set as a 2nd line two way center.
- J35Bacher

Please elaborate. I see someone lacking in foot speed, indecisive, and without elite playmaking skills.

I see a player who has a good hockey IQ, knows where to be defensively, who has better than average skills but who through hard work gets points that will never make a highlight reel, but in enough volume to be a solid if unspectacular contributor.

The conclusion of that long, run-on sentence? One of the top 3rd line shutdown centers in the league.

Please elaborate. I see someone lacking in foot speed, indecisive, and without elite playmaking skills.

I see a player who has a good hockey IQ, knows where to be defensively, who has better than average skills but who through hard work gets points that will never make a highlight reel, but in enough volume to be a solid if unspectacular contributor.

The conclusion of that long, run-on sentence? One of the top 3rd line shutdown centers in the league.
- TheGreat28

I actually believe Couturier is an underrated playmaker on this team. I think he's our third best playmaker on the roster behind Giroux and Voracek. It's hard to make plans when you have nobody to pass to. Read and Umberger have been that bad. I'm not so much defending Lecavalier as much as I am pointing out that he's a shooter and something could have been tried out between Couturier and Lecavalier. Couturier might have been able to up Schenn's game.

Please elaborate. I see someone lacking in foot speed, indecisive, and without elite playmaking skills.

I see a player who has a good hockey IQ, knows where to be defensively, who has better than average skills but who through hard work gets points that will never make a highlight reel, but in enough volume to be a solid if unspectacular contributor.

The conclusion of that long, run-on sentence? One of the top 3rd line shutdown centers in the league.
- TheGreat28

The problem is that he is a 22 year-old center who routinely plays against top players and gets primarily defensive responsibilities. Is he fast, no, but he isnt slow either. He is very strong, has very good play making ability. Has a pretty decent shot.

His numbers are down for sure... but that isnt just him, or the team.. that is across the entire NHL. I cant wait until they trade him and he breaks out. I know its gonna happen. I can feel it.

Absolutely. Mr. Snappy.

Kershaw's curveball too.

Johan Santana's change.

Schilling's splitter.

But those pitchers all had 4+ pitches to throw.

Mo had 1. He threw 1 pitch.
- Giroux_Is_God

I think Johnson pretty much lived on fastball slider.

Right. That's exactly what I'm saying. I've seen coots hold on to the puck while 3 defenders were trying to take it away from him. He shielded it for 10 seconds, waited for help and dished it off. He's a really good passer imo. The way he set up grossman on the goal against Detroit... really good set up. Just makes me laugh when people brush off coots (at 22 years old, in his 4th season) as just a 3rd line, defensive, penalty killing center. I'm just hoping and praying he becomes the next anze kopitar big, 2 way, playmaker. That's what I see him becoming (not as good as anze obviously). 20g 35a kinda player.
- benjichronic

...and study ceutics
- Giroux_Is_God

all i can say is 'keep it up'......i went to the house of a pharmacist the other day to look at a car he had and i'm guessing he makes pretty good $$ doing that

Right. That's exactly what I'm saying. I've seen coots hold on to the puck while 3 defenders were trying to take it away from him. He shielded it for 10 seconds, waited for help and dished it off. He's a really good passer imo. The way he set up grossman on the goal against Detroit... really good set up. Just makes me laugh when people brush off coots (at 22 years old, in his 4th season) as just a 3rd line, defensive, penalty killing center. I'm just hoping and praying he becomes the next anze kopitar big, 2 way, playmaker. That's what I see him becoming (not as good as anze obviously). 20g 35a kinda player.
- benjichronic

To be clear, I don't see him as ONLY a 3rd line shutdown goal. I think that if you put him with a Read and Simmonds, they can score as well as many teams 2nd lines.

But if that is our 2nd line, then Laughton is likely your 3rd line center. And I don't think his offensive upside is that high. So now your 3rd line is really a checking line. And I want a 3rd line that can both be a shutdown line who can also press the attack.

The difference between our evaluations of Couturier isn't necessarily what he can become. It's more around roster construction. I want an offense that can attack in waves, and think G - Couturier - Laughton is not the optimal way to get it. You guys might be more willing to sacrifice O for D.

Please elaborate. I see someone lacking in foot speed, indecisive, and without elite playmaking skills.

I see a player who has a good hockey IQ, knows where to be defensively, who has better than average skills but who through hard work gets points that will never make a highlight reel, but in enough volume to be a solid if unspectacular contributor.

The conclusion of that long, run-on sentence? One of the top 3rd line shutdown centers in the league.
- TheGreat28

Dude that's part of being 22 years old in the nhl. These are things that most players get to work out in the ahl... coots got what.. 20-30 games total in the 'a? There's no doubt that the kid has some things in his game that he still needs to work out but overall he's in a great spot... his defensive game is really really good. Now all he has to work on is his game with the puck and in the offensive zone. Like I said a few posts earlier... for all we know, coots has a giant season next year. Some of you guys are so quick to jump to a conclusion that a player won't amount to anything in the nhl/ is a bust/ will never make a difference on this team. I think the same thing about b. schenn as well. Both these guys are really young. They still have plenty of time to develop into solid nhl players. Give it time. When they hit 25, 26,27 and their highest nhl point totals are still under 50 points... then yeah, I'll agree at that point (barring a nick foligno story).

To be clear, I don't see him as ONLY a 3rd line shutdown goal. I think that if you put him with a Read and Simmonds, they can score as well as many teams 2nd lines.

But if that is our 2nd line, then Laughton is likely your 3rd line center. And I don't think his offensive upside is that high. So now your 3rd line is really a checking line. And I want a 3rd line that can both be a shutdown line who can also press the attack.

The difference between our evaluations of Couturier isn't necessarily what he can become. It's more around roster construction. I want an offense that can attack in waves, and think G - Couturier - Laughton is not the optimal way to get it. You guys might be more willing to sacrifice O for D.
- TheGreat28

I feel like, to become our second line, the Couts line will need a (left) winger who can fit their line matching/2 way game while boosting their offensive potency.

I actually believe Couturier is an underrated playmaker on this team. I think he's our third best playmaker on the roster behind Giroux and Voracek. It's hard to make plans when you have nobody to pass to. Read and Umberger have been that bad. I'm not so much defending Lecavalier as much as I am pointing out that he's a shooter and something could have been tried out between Couturier and Lecavalier. Couturier might have been able to up Schenn's game.
- SuperSchennBros

I just don't see it. I just watched a highlight reel of Marner. Man, THAT guy is a playmaker. I want a guy who instinctively knows where people are on the ice, where they are going to be, like 3 steps ahead of everyone else. That's the kind of skill we all fell in love with with Ghost, and obviously G has it.

I just don't see it with Couturier. I've seen him on too many 2 on 1's that just seem to fizzle. I've seen guys trailing in the zone and he hesitates just a second too long and the D closes the gap and blocks off the lane. I've seen times where he is really strong carrying the puck behind the net and just can't find the guy in a shooting lane.

Don't get me wrong. I'm giving you the negatives. There are a LOT of positives as well.

The problem is that he is a 22 year-old center who routinely plays against top players and gets primarily defensive responsibilities. Is he fast, no, but he isnt slow either. He is very strong, has very good play making ability. Has a pretty decent shot.

His numbers are down for sure... but that isnt just him, or the team.. that is across the entire NHL. I cant wait until they trade him and he breaks out. I know its gonna happen. I can feel it.
- jak521

I'm really quite scared of that happening as well. I wouldn't care if we got back a good return but I kinda feel like it'd be one of those "dreaded" deals where we get a sack of poop back in return, and coots helps his future team to presidents trophy, cup, etc. And to add insult to injury he'd probably win the selke on his new team, and would challenge for a scoring title

How many Sabres games can NBCS shoehorn in this week? I'm worried the National audience isn't getting enough Sabres hockey.

Dude that's part of being 22 years old in the nhl. These are things that most players get to work out in the ahl... coots got what.. 20-30 games total in the 'a? There's no doubt that the kid has some things in his game that he still needs to work out but overall he's in a great spot... his defensive game is really really good. Now all he has to work on is his game with the puck and in the offensive zone. Like I said a few posts earlier... for all we know, coots has a giant season next year. Some of you guys are so quick to jump to a conclusion that a player won't amount to anything in the nhl/ is a bust/ will never make a difference on this team. I think the same thing about b. schenn as well. Both these guys are really young. They still have plenty of time to develop into solid nhl players. Give it time. When they hit 25, 26,27 and their highest nhl point totals are still under 50 points... then yeah, I'll agree at that point (barring a nick foligno story).
- benjichronic

Fair enough. But again, like my last post, it boils down to roster construction. I think they are better off with Couts as the 3rd line guy and a stronger, offensive minded 2nd line center to take the pressure off of G. I just like that better than G - Couts - Laughton. I think that lineup would still struggle to put up points 5 on 5, even with a guy like Marner on the wing.

I just don't see it. I just watched a highlight reel of Marner. Man, THAT guy is a playmaker. I want a guy who instinctively knows where people are on the ice, where they are going to be, like 3 steps ahead of everyone else. That's the kind of skill we all fell in love with with Ghost, and obviously G has it.

I just don't see it with Couturier. I've seen him on too many 2 on 1's that just seem to fizzle. I've seen guys trailing in the zone and he hesitates just a second too long and the D closes the gap and blocks off the lane. I've seen times where he is really strong carrying the puck behind the net and just can't find the guy in a shooting lane.

Don't get me wrong. I'm giving you the negatives. There are a LOT of positives as well.
- TheGreat28

Because Marner's skill will automatically translate to the NHL. Couturier had back to back 96 point season. Seems to me he can be a point producer if we are talking about junior stats.

His pass on the rush to Grossmann seemed to be that of a good offensive player. When Read and Downie were with him that line dominated.

Couturier and Schenn are both still young. The only thing about Schenn that has me value Couturier higher is even when not scoring he still provides other attributes. Where if Schenn isn't producing he becomes invisible.

I feel like, to become our second line, the Couts line will need a (left) winger who can fit their line matching/2 way game while boosting their offensive potency.
- BulliesPhan87

Let's assume they draft Marner. Tomahawk and a bunch of others, including me, are doing cartwheels. So do they look better with

Raffl - G - Vorachek
LW - Schenn - Marner
Read - Couturier - Simmonds

and Laughton as a trade chip....

or

Raffl - G - Vorachek
LW - Couturier - Marner
Read - Laughton - Simmonds

And Schenn as a trade chip.

You could also try to slip Simmonds to 2nd line LW in the latter case and get a 3rd line RW instead.

I just like the 1st lineup much better.

Because Marner's skill will automatically translate to the NHL. Couturier had back to back 96 point season. Seems to me he can be a point producer if we are talking about junior stats.

His pass on the rush to Grossmann seemed to be that of a good offensive player. When Read and Downie were with him that line dominated.

Couturier and Schenn are both still young. The only thing about Schenn that has me value Couturier higher is even when not scoring he still provides other attributes. Where if Schenn isn't producing he becomes invisible.
- J35Bacher

One play does not an elite playmaker make.

I have seen him flub many more plays than he makes.

Yes, you take junior stats with a grain of salt. I generally discount scoring in the Q more than in the O personally. But Marner is the real deal in a lot of people's opinions.

Fair enough. But again, like my last post, it boils down to roster construction. I think they are better off with Couts as the 3rd line guy and a stronger, offensive minded 2nd line center to take the pressure off of G. I just like that better than G - Couts - Laughton. I think that lineup would still struggle to put up points 5 on 5, even with a guy like Marner on the wing.
- TheGreat28

I agree. There's a lot more than just one aspect that goes into it and you've brought up a really good point a few times as well .The roster construction. We absolutely HAVE TO get better wingers for him if we expect him to break out at all.

My small fantasy hope is that two things happen

Umbergers hip forces him to retire or go on LTIR the last 2 years.

VLC gets a hip transplant from Umberger or a reality check-looks in the mirror and says my time is past.

At least one of those things opens a world of possibilities and two opens a universe.

Oh yeah and a coach who can teach and grow a team with a system and a plan.

Its a lot easier to stand growing pains when there is real hope.

If they bring in another retread Flyer as a coach, then you know Snider is pulling the strings and that spells doom here.

The only coach I would bring back would be Hitch but he isnt the right man for this team.

Sigh

all i can say is 'keep it up'......i went to the house of a pharmacist the other day to look at a car he had and i'm guessing he makes pretty good $$ doing that
- hogweed

That's the plan

I agree. There's a lot more than just one aspect that goes into it and you've brought up a really good point a few times as well .The roster construction. We absolutely HAVE TO get better wingers for him if we expect him to break out at all.
- benjichronic

I think Read and Simmonds are pretty good wingers, don't you? I'm not going to knock Read for ONE bad year just yet. I agree more when it was Read and Umberger though.

Wow. I didn't realize the Phantoms have now missed the playoffs 6 consecutive years. I guess that is the result of constantly throwing picks away on rentals.

JFC, Holmgren really did a number on this franchise.
- PLindbergh31

Were they mathematically eliminated for this year? Heading to a game Sunday to see the new arena/team.

Reports out of Finland that Ilya Kovalchuk wants to return to NHL by 2016-17.


http://www.tsn.ca/report-...yeing-nhl-return-1.238308

I think Read and Simmonds are pretty good wingers, don't you? I'm not going to knock Read for ONE bad year just yet. I agree more when it was Read and Umberger though.
- TheGreat28

Read should have been sat and allowed to heal with that high ankle sprain.
Another bonehead personel move.
How much difference would that have made, him being effective ES and PK

I think Read and Simmonds are pretty good wingers, don't you? I'm not going to knock Read for ONE bad year just yet. I agree more when it was Read and Umberger though.
- TheGreat28

They are good.

But I also wouldn't mind upgrading on them.

I am probably one of the few who would trade Simmonds while his value is high.