Fact is guys not many if any teams are going to let us play our game and just say oh well.....I hate to bring up the 09, 10 team with Laad and buff but that was a team that could beat you any way you wanted to play... with pretty skill plays or down and drity....since then..we have to out pretty other teams...our defense tho the numbers say there pretty good still wont clear the crease....and its no secret that if you hit the hawks hard early and often they will make bad passes ice the puck and just plain get out of synch....there is plenty of talent on our team...I get that...but some game need to...have to be won by the willingness to out grind the other team...and that's the question on a team full of small and pretty how many are willing to grind a game out.... it seems like not to many...

That game was unwatchable last night? Or the Detroit game 2 weeks ago? Those were 2 excellent games IMO.

Maybe, maybe you are right about the new generation of fans going to the game - but before I agree with you, I'd like to get a some kind of test result on what these newcomers actually know about the game other than their favourite players wear #88 and #19 and drive Chevy's and they like to see a lot of goals scored by the home team.

The way the games are being called this season is open to debate, but most of that is considerably well above the knowledge level of these newbies at the UC.

And I go to at least 20 games a year there and am never surprised by some of the nonsensical crap I hear from some 'fans'.
- RickJ

Those games were highly entertaining - two skilled teams playing the game the right way.

I am referring to the lesser teams in this league - Los Angeles, Winnipeg, New Jersey..... those teams have very little skill, very little talent - but rely on mucking up games for 2 1/2 hours - severly limiting scoring chances - hoping to capitalize on a couple of mistakes by the other team - and winning a game not worth watching.

Unfortunately in the NHL - this garbage style of play gets rewarded with wins. In no other sport is the lesser of two teams rewarded by making the game something the fans would change the channel on.

Fact is guys not many if any teams are going to let us play our game and just say oh well.....I hate to bring up the 09, 10 team with Laad and buff but that was a team that could beat you any way you wanted to play... with pretty skill plays or down and drity....since then..we have to out pretty other teams...our defense tho the numbers say there pretty good still wont clear the crease....and its no secret that if you hit the hawks hard early and often they will make bad passes ice the puck and just plain get out of synch....there is plenty of talent on our team...I get that...but some game need to...have to be won by the willingness to out grind the other team...and that's the question on a team full of small and pretty how many are willing to grind a game out.... it seems like not to many...
- southernhawk

I am not saying any team should lay down to the other - but to make your style of play something so overly obstructed - that takes away most if not all offense out of the game - and be rewarded with it by beating more talented teams - this cannot continue and the league thrive with it. It will start with NBC walking away from the TV deal - then another lockout because the league will be losing too much money. It has happened three times in the last 20 years - it will happen again.

Those games were highly entertaining - two skilled teams playing the game the right way.
- dahawks8819

Completely agree... Wait but you're talking about the obstructionist wings?

Completely agree... Wait but you're talking about the obstructionist wings?
- TheCaptain19

No - I am talking about the obstructionist Los Angeles, Winnipeg, Boston, New Jersey.

No - I am talking about the obstructionist Los Angeles, Winnipeg, Boston, New Jersey.
- dahawks8819

Ya I know I was just making a point. Wings get grouped in with the rest. They do what they can to cause problems for the opposition. However It can still lead to entertaining hockey despite popular opinion on this Thread

That game was unwatchable last night? Or the Detroit game 2 weeks ago? Those were 2 excellent games IMO.

Maybe, maybe you are right about the new generation of fans going to the game - but before I agree with you, I'd like to get a some kind of test result on what these newcomers actually know about the game other than their favourite players wear #88 and #19 and drive Chevy's and they like to see a lot of goals scored by the home team.

The way the games are being called this season is open to debate, but most of that is considerably well above the knowledge level of these newbies at the UC.

And I go to at least 20 games a year there and am never surprised by some of the nonsensical crap I hear from some 'fans'.
- RickJ

I agree with you about the hockey acumen of the new generation fan. But just remember - for the NHL to exist - they need this new fan base that is willing to spend disposable income to attend the games - otherwise in ten years from now - the buildings around the league will be empty.

No - I am talking about the obstructionist Los Angeles, Winnipeg, Boston, New Jersey.
- dahawks8819

Not every team can play the hawks style of hockey...so they play "there" game...and great teams can play both.

The Chicago vs Pittsburg game a while back was great to watch..FUN game indeed ...with that said the first 2 games vs Winnipeg were soooo hard to watch...not because they were bad games...but because im a hawks fan and I hated to see my team get pounded... Winnipeg clogged up the middle kept the puck to the outside and punished those who dared to get it ...I used the collage football example as that's big here... its great to see to "spread offences" go at it and put up 60 points on each other....but when you run into a team that can run the ball down your throat and make you like it...eat up clock and has a dominant defense....well that changes things....




Now im not saying the hawks need to abandon there game....but when its not there can they play the gritty game and get the points

Not every team can play the hawks style of hockey...so they play "there" game...and great teams can play both.
- southernhawk

So - you are saying that great teams should throw the idea of hockey out the window - and muck up games for 60 minutes - and hope to squeak out a 1-0 or 2-1 win??

Obstruction and holding are not a "style" of play. In no other sport in this country can you muck up a game and go beyond the rules to obstruct a better team - and win with it.

Think about baseball - the pitcher pitches - and just as the ball comes to the plate - the catcher ties up the arms of a hitter - and it's called good defense. Would you watch that for three hours??

In basketball - as a player goes to shoot - the defender hooks his arms so the shot can't be taken - and it's allowed as long as the player has the ball. Care to watch that for two hours??

In football - the ball is snapped - but just as the QB takes it - a defender knocks the ball away before he can even take a step back. Or - take away the five yard chuck rule and let the defenders constantly interfere with the receivers all the way down the field. No one would watch that either.

In the three sports I mentioned - all of them ENCOURAGE offensive play to keep their fans interested - most notably when the NBA instituted the three point shot. Teams could no longer just pack in their defense to the paint area - the entire court 25 feet in must now be defended. And their ratings and money inflow are higher than ever. The NHL wishes they had even ONE FOURTH of what the NBA makes!!!!

So - you are saying that great teams should throw the idea of hockey out the window - and muck up games for 60 minutes - and hope to squeak out a 1-0 or 2-1 win??

Obstruction and holding are not a "style" of play. In no other sport in this country can you muck up a game and go beyond the rules to obstruct a better team - and win with it.

Think about baseball - the pitcher pitches - and just as the ball comes to the plate - the catcher ties up the arms of a hitter - and it's called good defense. Would you watch that for three hours??

In basketball - as a player goes to shoot - the defender hooks his arms so the shot can't be taken - and it's allowed as long as the player has the ball. Care to watch that for two hours??

In football - the ball is snapped - but just as the QB takes it - a defender knocks the ball away before he can even take a step back. Or - take away the five yard chuck rule and let the defenders constantly interfere with the receivers all the way down the field. No one would watch that either.

In the three sports I mentioned - all of them ENCOURAGE offensive play to keep their fans interested - most notably when the NBA instituted the three point shot. Teams could no longer just pack in their defense to the paint area - the entire court 25 feet in must now be defended. And their ratings and money inflow are higher than ever. The NHL wishes they had even ONE FOURTH of what the NBA makes!!!!
- dahawks8819

I don't agree with your notion that contraction is inevitable, or that another lockout is a virtual certainty...

...but I do agree that clutch'n, grabb'n and interference are becoming increasingly common yet again...

That said, the Hawks passing has been awful and the blueline is suspect and don't get me started on the turnovers and special teams. Improve those aspects of their team game and the clutch'n ect. won't matter that much.

I don't agree with your notion that contraction is inevitable, or that another lockout is a virtual certainty...

...but I do agree that clutch'n, grabb'n and interference are becoming increasingly common yet again...

That said, the Hawks passing has been awful and the blueline is suspect and don't get me started on the turnovers and special teams. Improve those aspects of their team game and the clutch'n ect. won't matter that much.
- ArlingtonRob

All valid points - but my arguments are for the benefit of the entire league and its growth everywhere - not just for the Hawks. I see a lot of teams trying to emulate what the Hawks have grown into - and that's a good thing. But I also see teams trying to copy Los Angeles - and that is poison for the league.

[quote=ArlingtonRob]I don't agree with your notion that contraction is inevitable, or that another lockout is a virtual certainty...

This is not just my notion. This has been a pattern with the league for the past twenty years - three lockouts and it seems the higher ups in the league office have learned nothing from them.

So the only conclusion is - if you don't learn from your mistakes - you are bound to repeat them.

You really missed the point there....


No great teams shouldn't throw away hockey...lol... but the teams that tend to be more successful can win games played both ways....with cuteness as the hawks do...and in the trenches

Predators snap the losing streak

2-1 OT win in AZ

- dahawks8819[quote=ArlingtonRob]I don't agree with your notion that contraction is inevitable, or that another lockout is a virtual certainty...

This is not just my notion. This has been a pattern with the league for the past twenty years - three lockouts and it seems the higher ups in the league office have learned nothing from them.

So the only conclusion is - if you don't learn from your mistakes - you are bound to repeat them.

I stand by my statement...especially as it regards contraction. Now, I do expect relocation...or perhaps I should say I HOPE for some relocation. Time will tell.

Regarding another lockout...It wouldn't shock me if the owner's did it again, I'm just not as certain as you seem to be. Perhaps you have inside information?

For now, I'm not going to worry about it.

What im saying is ... I dont believe any coach say..ok boys lets match them stretch pass for stretch pass...cycle for cycle....

Its no secret that if you clog the neutral zone ..take away the stretch pass give the hawks trouble on entry... the tend not to get away from trying it and struggle the entire game... when switching to a chip and chase and pound the defense in the corners type of game can reopen the things that work later in the game.... hockey is a wonderful game in the since that its a fast paced fluid game....adaptation can be a powerful thinh...during the course of any given game

For those talking about next year.....

Saad - Toews - Hossa
Versteeg - TT/open - Kane
open/McNeil? - TT/open - Shaw?/open
Nordstrom - Kruger - Desjardins?/open
Danault

Keith - Seabrook
Hjalmarsson - TVR/open
open - open
open/Rundblad

Crawford
Darling

(very rough idea, not sure, Shaw might also have to go, but this is a pretty legit "worst case scenario" lineup IMO)

.....a noticeably step back? Yes.

A top 5 Cup favorite? No.

But...BUT!!!.....is that not still one pretty damn exciting looking roster with a lot of potential? Hell, im not giving up. Anything can happen. Ya never know. Maybe one or two of our kids breakout next year...I dont think we'll wind up winning anything if i had to bet on it, maybe not for a few years.....but i think that team is still good enough to:

A. Have at least a chance
B. Be VERY grateful to have as oppose to the majority of the league. So let us not lose sight of that, regardless of how bad the purge is this summer.

GO HAWKS!!!!!

For those talking about next year.....

Saad - Toews - Hossa
Versteeg - TT/open - Kane
open/McNeil? - TT/open - Shaw?/open
Nordstrom - Kruger - Desjardins?/open
Danault

Keith - Seabrook
Hjalmarsson - TVR/open
open - open
open/Rundblad

Crawford
Darling

(very rough idea, not sure, Shaw might also have to go, but this is a pretty legit "worst case scenario" lineup IMO)

.....a noticeably step back? Yes.

A top 5 Cup favorite? No.

But...BUT!!!.....is that not still one pretty damn exciting looking roster with a lot of potential? Hell, im not giving up. Anything can happen. Ya never know. Maybe one or two of our kids breakout next year...I dont think we'll wind up winning anything if i had to bet on it, maybe not for a few years.....but i think that team is still good enough to:

A. Have at least a chance
B. Be VERY grateful to have as oppose to the majority of the league. So let us not lose sight of that, regardless of how bad the purge is this summer.

GO HAWKS!!!!!
- SimpleJack

I think sharp bickell and shaw will be jettisoned.... maybe oduya to...hopefully we have enough cap to fill so.e holes...look for Ross and or hartman to be up as well

I am not saying any team should lay down to the other - but to make your style of play something so overly obstructed - that takes away most if not all offense out of the game - and be rewarded with it by beating more talented teams - this cannot continue and the league thrive with it. It will start with NBC walking away from the TV deal - then another lockout because the league will be losing too much money. It has happened three times in the last 20 years - it will happen again.
- dahawks8819

Just wait till the playoffs start and the refs pack the whistle away... and no...lol. NBC wont be walking away

All valid points - but my arguments are for the benefit of the entire league and its growth everywhere - not just for the Hawks. I see a lot of teams trying to emulate what the Hawks have grown into - and that's a good thing. But I also see teams trying to copy Los Angeles - and that is poison for the league.
- dahawks8819

Same way teams copied New Jersey 20 years ago. Teams that broke the trend were Detroit and especially Tampa wining their cups with more passing than dumping the puck. Even though people in this town suffered for it, it was a treat to watch Detroit evolve. They played some serious hockey, even if they seemed to have the hawks number. You had to know good things were coming when the hawks finally solved the wings.

For those talking about next year.....

Saad - Toews - Hossa
Versteeg - TT/open - Kane
open/McNeil? - TT/open - Shaw?/open
Nordstrom - Kruger - Desjardins?/open
Danault

Keith - Seabrook
Hjalmarsson - TVR/open
open - open
open/Rundblad

Crawford
Darling

(very rough idea, not sure, Shaw might also have to go, but this is a pretty legit "worst case scenario" lineup IMO)

.....a noticeably step back? Yes.

A top 5 Cup favorite? No.

But...BUT!!!.....is that not still one pretty damn exciting looking roster with a lot of potential? Hell, im not giving up. Anything can happen. Ya never know. Maybe one or two of our kids breakout next year...I dont think we'll wind up winning anything if i had to bet on it, maybe not for a few years.....but i think that team is still good enough to:

A. Have at least a chance
B. Be VERY grateful to have as oppose to the majority of the league. So let us not lose sight of that, regardless of how bad the purge is this summer.

GO HAWKS!!!!!
- SimpleJack

Can't see Versteeg back unless he's taking a paycut, at least down to what the Hawks are on the hook for right now.

Saad - Toews - Hossa
McNeil - TT - Kane
Hartman - Danualt - Shaw
Nordstrom - Kruger - Desjardins?/open
Ross
Think the cap probably works with that. Depth going to be a concern though.

Can't see Versteeg back unless he's taking a paycut, at least down to what the Hawks are on the hook for right now.

Saad - Toews - Hossa
McNeil - TT - Kane
Hartman - Danualt - Shaw
Nordstrom - Kruger - Desjardins?/open
Ross
Think the cap probably works with that. Depth going to be a concern though.
- vabeachbear

Versteeg is a ufa season after next....so he will be here next year

Versteeg is a ufa season after next....so he will be here next year
- southernhawk

Must have looked at it wrong, never mind.

Can't see Versteeg back unless he's taking a paycut, at least down to what the Hawks are on the hook for right now.

Saad - Toews - Hossa
McNeil - TT - Kane
Hartman - Danualt - Shaw
Nordstrom - Kruger - Desjardins?/open
Ross
Think the cap probably works with that. Depth going to be a concern though.
- vabeachbear

Toews Saad Hossa
Vermette Versteeg Kane
TT McNeil Hartman
Kruger Danualt Nordstrom

Keith Seabrook
Hammer TVR
Cuminskey Raanta Trade

Crawford Darling

Gone:
Bickell,Sharp,Shaw.Richards,Oduya and maybe Kruger.
Raanta gets traded at the draft for an Oduya type but younger.
Think they resign Vermette