Jagr + Zidlicky (don't know his cap #s) + pick? for Sutter + Bennett
- znagle

id rather do elias, tootoo, and maybe a pick or decent prospect for kunitz and sutterd, hellthrow jagr in there too and we can throw a low pick in next years draft

ok so say we do have jagr, and i assume part of why we want him is the pp, who's place is he taking, it sure shouldnt be sid or horny or letang, so perron i guess?

unless our trade partner retains some salary*

plus how great would it be to get to play against brandon sutter 5 times a season!
- JLT168

Good Point. Any salary retention on any more moves would be quite beneficial.

Jagr + Zidlicky (don't know his cap #s) + pick? for Sutter + Bennett
- znagle

That won't work. We have no cap space. They make too much.

I liked the Elias idea for Sutter/Scuderi though.

It's possible that JR is calling in a bunch of favors re: salary retention. It's a must for the Penguins to get anywhere in a trade.

That won't work. We have no cap space. They make too much.

I liked the Elias idea for Sutter/Scuderi though.
- Barnaby36

Got it. I think Sutter for Jagr + a pick could do it then. Jagr wants to go to a playoff team or he won't play the rest of the year

id rather do elias, tootoo, and maybe a pick or decent prospect for kunitz and sutterd, hellthrow jagr in there too and we can throw a low pick in next years draft

ok so say we do have jagr, and i assume part of why we want him is the pp, who's place is he taking, it sure shouldnt be sid or horny or letang, so perron i guess?
- JLT168

Jagr on the half wall, Sid down low, Geno at the point, Letang to his left, Hornqvist/Kunitz in front? That's what I'd like to see...

Wait, so we can resign Sill after this season then?
- j.boyd919

Sadly I would not be surprised if that happened. We will need a Craig Adams replacement after this season.

One thing to remind you all: Winnik had the most shorthanded minutes in the NHL.

Our PK says thank you.

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun 44s45 seconds ago
Leafs in return for Winnik get Zach Sill plus 2nd round pick in 2016 and 4th round pick in 2015


edit: GOODBYE (frank)ING ZACH SILL
- Guile

That is way too much for a freakin third line rental. A second round pick in 2016 and a 4th? Bad move IMO. He is an upgrade, but that is a high price to pay for him.

That is way too much for a freakin third line rental. A second round pick in 2016 and a 4th? Bad move IMO. He is an upgrade, but that is a high price to pay for him.
- Oneonta Penguin

Not as bad as Murray for 2 2nds.

I don't mind it, since it's next years 2nd. Next years draft is no where as deep as this years.

That is way too much for a freakin third line rental. A second round pick in 2016 and a 4th? Bad move IMO. He is an upgrade, but that is a high price to pay for him.
- Oneonta Penguin

Thank You!

That is way too much for a freakin third line rental. A second round pick in 2016 and a 4th? Bad move IMO. He is an upgrade, but that is a high price to pay for him.
- Oneonta Penguin

gotta pay to play, my guess would be toronto approached jr and said this team is offering us this and were going to take it, you gotta up your ante if you want him, im sure jr confirmed that and the rest if history...of course thats all speculation hahaha

Not as bad as Murray for 2 2nds.

I don't mind it, since it's next years 2nd. Next years draft is no where as deep as this years.
- cap1681

Well all pens have is a 2nd, 6th and 7th

I'm less than thrilled with the Tlusty deal.
- BINGO!

Why? He is a pending UFA that hasn't played good hockey. Consider yourself lucky.

Well all pens have is a 2nd, 6th and 7th
- nh4442

maybeeee the pens are just going to trade all their picks so they can save on travel expenses and not send anyone at all to the draft

I don't think so. Winnik can be had in the off season for cheap. He's not worth a second rounder.
- znagle

No, he's worth a 2nd rounder, a 4th and a warm body.

Not as bad as Murray for 2 2nds.

I don't mind it, since it's next years 2nd. Next years draft is no where as deep as this years.
- cap1681

No, nothing will ever be as bad as the Doug Murray deal. I mean, forking over two second round picks for a pending slow UFA that fell out of favor with the Sharks' brass and was a healthy scratch ... that was ridiculous.

I mind giving up a second for a third line rental because I think its still a good asset to have. I value the top two rounds of drafts.

Hopefully JR stops trading good assets the rest of the way out.

Thanks for making my point completely.

You trade aways prospects or in this case more picks...and this is the garbage that you have in your farm system, so when an injury occurs you get Zach Sill or any of the names you mentioned...but yeah who cares about until its time to female dog about it when injuries, mumps, rapes, stubbed toes, and divorces occur next season.
- Reverend Killtaker

I agree with that, but none of those guys are any good. The Pens seem to have a hard time developing players into anything, see BB. Losing the draft picks hurts, but either bad drafting or a bad farm system make any picks pretty worthless.

No, he's worth a 2nd rounder, a 4th and a warm body.
- Blackstrom2

exactly, id say we paid fair market value, maybe over cost*, but supply and demand in full effect here

I dont think so...sutter as weak and slim as he is, still back checks, and can skate, whether people want to admit it or not, hes not that bad on the pk, sure hes a one trick pony skating down the rw and ripping a wrist shot far side top shelf, but hes a better faster skater than winnik, i slot winnik on wing if its up to me, we will see what mj does
- JLT168

Every play gets contested more in the postseason- which is exactly what the Blackhole sucks at- winning puck battles. Winnik is as productive, a much better possession player, and much more physical. And he costs a lot less.

Not as bad as Murray for 2 2nds.

I don't mind it, since it's next years 2nd. Next years draft is no where as deep as this years.
- cap1681

I am going to enjoy the ride now, but man the cupboards are going to be bare pretty soon. 4 guys in the system who might make an impact on the Pens (Dumoulin, Harrington, Sundqvist, and Kapanen) and that is assuming all 4 pan out. 2 possibly 3 of those guys could be up with the team next year and then what? The Pens will have 1 prospect left that they can count on when they need young guys on ELCs.

I agree with that, but none of those guys are any good. The Pens seem to have a hard time developing players into anything, see BB. Losing the draft picks hurts, but either bad drafting or a bad farm system make any picks pretty worthless.
- sammy87

This time of year, teams covet draft picks and prospects. Simple fact is when we trade prospects/picks for rentals, we don't get anything back. Nothing is yielded. We have limited amount of assets to trade. Why is that? Because we trade them for third line rentals and slow defensemen from Sweden - also a rental.

I just want to put this out there for people who are concerned it was too much to give up for Winnik. Remember having the Leafs retaining salary, the main asset in the trade being more than a year away (2016 2nd rounder), and taking Sill requires more payment than WPG did for Tlusty. Here is a list of 2nd round picks since 2004 for the Pens.... Needless to say, they need to get better at drafting, or 2nd round picks aren't as valuable as some people make them out to be:

2004 - #31 Johannes Salmonsson
2005 - #61 Michael Gergen
2006 - #32 Carl Sneep
2007 - #51 Keven Veilleux
2008 - none
2009 - #61 Philip Samuelsson
2010 - none
2011 - #54 Scott Harrington
2012 - #52 Theodor Blueger
2013 - #44 Tristan Jarry

You guys have pretty much said it all....

We paid a premium for the Leafs retaining salary. Otherwise a 3rd would have sufficed instead of a 2nd.

Still, always questionable to give up assets for guys that we could have signed in the offseason.

All that said, from a hockey perspective...I think Winnik does help us more than Tlusty...especially if he can play 3rd line C. I know he's played center but my gut tells me he's better at wing because that's where he plays mostly.

Sutter and Dumoulin for Petry, Pakarinen, and a 4th and call it a day.

This time of year, teams covet draft picks and prospects. Simple fact is when we trade prospects/picks for rentals, we don't get anything back. Nothing is yielded. We have limited amount of assets to trade. Why is that? Because we trade them for third line rentals and slow defensemen from Sweden - also a rental.
- Oneonta Penguin

Not arguing with that at all. The Murray/Iggy deals hurt pretty bad. Tie that in with bad drafting with whats left and its trouble.