I strongly believe that MDZ is a long-term keeper, but like somebody said above, it might take ~$4M/per to keep him around.

It's also a tough TDL/summer to be trying to move salary out to make that happen... w/ all the future uncertainty surrounding the cap-limit and all.
- Tomahawk

See, that's my thing.

If you evaluate him and that evaluation says "He's a $4 million dollar player," then you pay that.

You definitely don't have to pay him $5 million. But don't come in at $3 million, either, when you have him rated as a $4 million player.

I believe you pay guys what they are worth, because they are earning that, and you (frank)ing get rid of guys who aren't earning their salaries. Sometimes, you project a bit, when you see a young player putting it together who has talent/skills.

But I would never be afraid to pay a guy like MDZ what the evaluation says we should. Because I'll create that cash by being one of those people who won't wait to get rid of a guy who can't play at the salary they are making.

But we blame Berube for everything. I thought that's how it works(sarcasm)


I get that. But if he goes and puts up a good season then your at risk at paying even more. Now your paying more for years when he is older and can regress faster. I dn't know what the right amount could be. I guess my thinking is paying 4.5 for 4 years when he is 25-28 instead of maybe paying 5@ 5.5 for years 26-30.
- J35Bacher

There's pros and cons to both. If you think he's going to continue to play at the level he's currently playing at, then maybe signing him now to a significant extension saves some money down the line. If you do that, and he regresses again, then you've got a problem. The safe play is to sign him to a one year bridge deal and approach it next season.

Sather definitely rushed him up, then Torts buried him for all the inexperience and over-exuberance that comes with youth and poor development.

He was completely shell shocked by the time Vigneault took over.

Seems to have reacquired some of his essential swagger here.
- Tomahawk

I think he's a good player, and most importantly, he seems to be smart enough to learn and competitive enough to try

HAHAHA,Toast, have not heard that name in a long time!
- JW98FlyerFan

He was so bad. Was hard to watch him without completely going berserk.

Sather definitely rushed him up, then Torts buried him for all the inexperience and over-exuberance that comes with youth and poor development.

He was completely shell shocked by the time Vigneault took over.

Seems to have reacquired some of his essential swagger here.
- Tomahawk

When a player is playing well over 20 minutes a game under a coach, and he goes from that, to a point where basically the team walks away from the player, that's on the player, not the coach. Blaming it on Tortorella is a cop out. Far too many times a coach is blamed and not the player. Especially when it's happened under 3 different coaches, and 3 different teams.

When a player is playing well over 20 minutes a game under a coach, and he goes from that, to a point where basically the team walks away from the player, that's on the player, not the coach. Blaming it on Tortorella is a cop out. Far too many times a coach is blamed and not the player. Especially when it's happened under 3 different coaches, and 3 different teams.
- MJL

Except I just blamed Sather.

When a player is playing well over 20 minutes a game under a coach, and he goes from that, to a point where basically the team walks away from the player, that's on the player, not the coach. Blaming it on Tortorella is a cop out. Far too many times a coach is blamed and not the player. Especially when it's happened under 3 different coaches, and 3 different teams.
- MJL

Yet MDZ is in the NHL thriving, and Tortorella is on the bread line because his shelf life is equivalent to a dozen eggs.

Except I just blamed Sather.
- Tomahawk

And I quote

"Torts buried him for all the inexperience and over-exuberance"

Tortorella didn't bury him, Del Zotto burined himself with his play.

And I quote

"Torts buried him for all the inexperience and over-exuberance"

Tortorella didn't bury him, Del Zotto burined himself with his play.
- MJL

I wonder why you didn't quote the entire sentence...

Yet MDZ is in the NHL thriving, and Tortorella is on the bread line because his shelf life is equivalent to a dozen eggs.
- PLindbergh31

The less talk about that clown coach there is, the better

Only that clown would take guys like the Sedins and try to turn them into Manny Malhotra and Ryan White

There's pros and cons to both. If you think he's going to continue to play at the level he's currently playing at, then maybe signing him now to a significant extension saves some money down the line. If you do that, and he regresses again, then you've got a problem. The safe play is to sign him to a one year bridge deal and approach it next season.
- MJL

Certainly there are pros and cons to both. And I don't know which way is right.

I guess his skills are something that Norris voters look at because they seem to look at points. Just say he goes off next season and ends up top 5 in Norris voting. Now his value has gone up even more.

Maybe the reason the Flyers made the playoffs last year, after that awful start, was because they did play hard for those games at the end of 2012. Ever think that? Or the reason that they have played hard and narrowed the deficit to four points is because they have learned not to quit?

What happened when things got tough for Edmonton last year? They folded. This year? They folded.

What about the Leafs? They absolutely folded.

There are teams out there filled with losers. Because they never sniff what it means to overcome adversity and win games when it matters -- whether it be a regular-season game or a rivalry game or a playoff game.

The Calgary Flames missed the playoffs quite a few years, but they refused to tank. They won as many games as they could, even though "it cost them draft position."
- AllInForFlyers

And they might have got the 2nd best player in the draft at #5.

I wonder why you didn't quote the entire sentence...
- Tomahawk

Didn't need to. My point was made towards the excuses made for Del Zotto and blaming it on the coach. That Sather rushed him is also debatable.

wow no trades yet... if hextall is happy with this team wow... just wow

The less talk about that clown coach there is, the better
- AllInForFlyers

Guy lasted all of 76 games in Vancouver. His act wears thin on players for sure. Guarantee if you took a poll and asked players which coach they least like to play for it would be Tortorella.

Certainly there are pros and cons to both. And I don't know which way is right.

I guess his skills are something that Norris voters look at because they seem to look at points. Just say he goes off next season and ends up top 5 in Norris voting. Now his value has gone up even more.
- J35Bacher

That's the risk. There is no doubt that Del Zotto adds an element to the Flyers that is needed.

Amen, couldn't have said it better myself. Winning leads to more winning.
- MJL

A 4-8 Eagles team finished with 4 straight wins to go 8-8. The following year, with pretty much the same team wet 4-12.

Last year, the Flyers started slowly, came roaring back to make the playoffs, which I applaud them for. Why did they play so poorly for much of the first half of the season? I don't believe winning or losing carries from season to season. I believe it has to do with the make up of the individual players. A team character can be forged through adversity and experience but you also need character players with talent. They have some highly talented players( with character), I'll take Gs compete level over mostly anybody in the league. They also have more deadweight/ bad mix than any of the upper echelon or rising teams.

I commend these guys for not giving up, that's the attitude needed to ascend to another level. It is what separated them from the Leafs and Oilers. I stand by stance that for the long term, they are doing themselves a disservice if they make the playoffs or if Hextall doesnt get additional picks in this draft. I know there is no guarantee that a higher pick will be the yada yada yada but, as I stated before, for THIS YEAR, im willing to play the percentages.

Yet MDZ is in the NHL thriving, and Tortorella is on the bread line because his shelf life is equivalent to a dozen eggs.
- PLindbergh31

Torts may be out of work, but he most certainly is NOT in the bread line.

wow no trades yet... if hextall is happy with this team wow... just wow
- 2Real

He's not going to move a guy just to move a guy. For instance, if Coburn doesn't bring back a 1st rounder either this year or next, then he probably won't get moved.

The less talk about that clown coach there is, the better

Only that clown would take guys like the Sedins and try to turn them into Manny Malhotra and Ryan White
- AllInForFlyers

That clown coach did win a Stanley Cup.

bang bang
- stayinthefnnet

pew pew

Guy lasted all of 76 games in Vancouver. His act wears thin on players for sure. Guarantee if you took a poll and asked players which coach they least like to play for it would be Tortorella.
- PLindbergh31

and let's be honest, if the Flyers had a healthy D corps in 2004, the Lightning wouldn't have won the Cup.

And they might have got the 2nd best player in the draft at #5.
- Feanor

That kid is absolutely a player, and I do think, in some ways, they were rewarded for not embracing being losers

I understand if you're just a bad team. It happens. I'm not dense. Every year, there are 14 teams that miss, and you might be one of them when you least expect it

But this bullpoop about "winning is bad because it costs you draft position" is enough to drive me bat-poop insane

I have a feeling that he'll be asking for quite a lot, and not be too keen on softening his stance, RFA leverage be damned.
- Tomahawk

Then I hope he's ready for salary arbitration.

The less talk about that clown coach there is, the better
- AllInForFlyers

We need him back in the NHL as quick as possible.

New Jersey needs a coach.

Get Milbury and Espo GM jobs.

What's Capt. Lou Albano doing?