Way to overreact without even trying to understand what you're female doging about dude. Did you conveniently miss the part in these conversations that staal has been a perennial 20g scorer for the price on a poopty Canes team and all the injuries they've run into?

One minute of your time looking at their goal production is enough to show you that Sutter has done it once and only gotten so close since. So our teams biggest problem has been our 3C, pk, scoring and not being content with sub par players but you "lost a lot of respect" (I love how this stupid saying gets thrown around these days, usually by people who had none to begin with but claim otherwise) because you're somehow blind to the fact that it would involve Sutter moving out and Scuderi being traded for picks to use in the deal or being bought out. All for a guy much bigger, can score more and would improve our pk and third line immensely. Staal is locked up long term and he'll end up making what 2 mil more than Sutter when he gets his next raise. Do some basic thinking before you knee jerk post.
- ImScore71

Knee jerk post?

That is a better description for what you wrote than for what I posted.

If you think Staal is worth 6M and Sutter is not worth 3.3M then feel free to continue thinking that way.

If you think Spaling isn't worth the 2.2M he gets paid but Staal is worth the 6M he gets paid then please...continue thinking that way.

If you think my post was something other than trying to point out how Ryan is not using the same "sound reasoning" in looking at Staal back with the Pens...then please...BY ALL MEANS...continue thinking that way.

But also...please...learn to quote someone correctly...I said "lost credibility"

Good day Sir!

Way to overreact without even trying to understand what you're female doging about dude. Did you conveniently miss the part in these conversations that staal has been a perennial 20g scorer for the price on a poopty Canes team and all the injuries they've run into?

One minute of your time looking at their goal production is enough to show you that Sutter has done it once and only gotten so close since. So our teams biggest problem has been our 3C, pk, scoring and not being content with sub par players but you "lost a lot of respect" (I love how this stupid saying gets thrown around these days, usually by people who had none to begin with but claim otherwise) because you're somehow blind to the fact that it would involve Sutter moving out and Scuderi being traded for picks to use in the deal or being bought out. All for a guy much bigger, can score more and would improve our pk and third line immensely. Staal is locked up long term and he'll end up making what 2 mil more than Sutter when he gets his next raise. Do some basic thinking before you knee jerk post.
- ImScore71

Not to mention Staal's shutdown abilities, or him being able to draw the other teams shutdown guys on him freeing up 87 and 71. Or him being able to start in his own zone, and finish in the other teams zone. He is a nightmare match up especially when we have 87 and 71 taking the other teams best defensive players on them. He can also move up the lineup at any time. He is the reason we stole many games when he was here in Pitt. Complete game changer.

Edit: The only thing Sutter can steal is money from the Penguins.

Not to mention Staal's shutdown abilities, or him being able to draw the other teams shutdown guys on him freeing up 87 and 71. Or him being able to start in his own zone, and finish in the other teams zone. He is a nightmare match up especially when we have 87 and 71 taking the other teams best defensive players on them. He can also move up the lineup at any time. He is the reason we stole many games when he was here in Pitt. Complete game changer.
- znagle

But wait...can't we find a guy who costs way less than 6M to do that for 87 and 71?

I mean we hear all the time about how we can get better for less when it comes to Sutter and Spaling.

Certainly we can get the same production Staal offers at less then 6M, can't we?

So, how do you fans who want "fair treatment for all players regardless of who they are" (*coughOvechkincough) feel about Rinaldo's "fighting major" yesterday? Just wanna see if it goes both ways.

So, how do you fans who want "fair treatment for all players regardless of who they are" (*coughOvechkincough) feel about Rinaldo's "fighting major" yesterday? Just wanna see if it goes both ways.
- jmatchett383

Oh fill me in, sounds fantastic; what happened?

But wait...can't we find a guy who costs way less than 6M to do that for 87 and 71?

I mean we hear all the time about how we can get better for less when it comes to Sutter and Spaling.

Certainly we can get the same production Staal offers at less then 6M, can't we?
- icedog97

Aren't all fights Majors? Also didn't see it

He's so good that Carolina won 57 of it's last 140 games and will miss the playoffs again this year?

I get the argument that a 6M piece in a 71M puzzle might work...

But we are repeatedly subjected to arguments about how bad the bottom 6 are and the nitpicking at the salaries of Sutter and Spaling...who BTW combined don't make as much as Staal.

You can't live by "sound reasoning" when it fits your argument, then abandon it completely when it comes to your favorite player. Especially if you spend a good deal of time criticizing coaches and management for ignoring the stats you push forth as the right way to build a team.
- icedog97

Since you're making this argument against Ryan....just realize that Staal has amazing advanced stats. Corsi and Corsi against and all that poop. Just because his offensive upside will always be around 20 goals per year doesnt mean he doesnt bring other things to the table. It's not just goals per $1M. There's real value to elite penalty killing, elite faceoffs, elite shutdown defense, etc. Spaling and Sutter don't do anything else well so they HAVE to score goals to be valuable...and they aren't great at that either.

I have a pretty low opinion of MM. I find it incredibly amusing that he is claiming analytics don't work while talking about the wage-myth gap in genders. I think he would make a better food critic than anything else. Aside from that, his opinion is less than worthless to me because he is so self-righteous about everything.
- jfkst1

Funny how several dim-wits around here have been arguing since the beginning of the year on this blog that advanced stats were useless and only for nerds and bloggers; that NHL teams were only claiming to use it to get fans to shut up and were not actually serious about it.

Then lo and behold the NHL announced they are spending years and millions of dollars to not only incorporate the frequently used stats, but they are also going to also look to improve and create new ones. Needless to say they've not had much to say since then.

But wait...can't we find a guy who costs way less than 6M to do that for 87 and 71?

I mean we hear all the time about how we can get better for less when it comes to Sutter and Spaling.

Certainly we can get the same production Staal offers at less then 6M, can't we?
- icedog97

It's not all about offensive production with Staal. Name another player that can do all Staal can, with his size too. It's already a proven fact that this works for us. I can't think of another big, shutdown center that can play 20 minutes a game and can free up Geno and Sid from other teams top shutdown lines. If they don't matchup with Staal, he would make the other team pay. He could play with Spaling and Bennett granted neither are traded. He'd play our 2nd PP, first PK as well.

We can find better than Sutter for less, he is not worth 3.3 million, at all. Easily replaceable, but Staal would be a huge upgrade to not only the bottom 6, but the top 6 as well. He helps 87 and 71 produce like they should for as much as they are payed. Like I said, Spaling is over payed by maybe .5 million, not much to female dog about but he can be replaced as well.

So, how do you fans who want "fair treatment for all players regardless of who they are" (*coughOvechkincough) feel about Rinaldo's "fighting major" yesterday? Just wanna see if it goes both ways.
- jmatchett383

Ahh I just watched it, I just wish Rinaldo would have connected on Green with the flying elbow; other than that it was like watching poetry in motion.

Oh fill me in, sounds fantastic; what happened?
- nbartley9

Rinaldo put a hit on Green (not much of one, mostly missed him) and Mike Green did his best "I'm tough and will crosscheck you until you turn around" bit. So Chimera came over, gave Rinaldo a gloved shot, and grabbed him. Rinaldo didn't drop his gloves and never even raised his hands. Chimera pulled him down and threw an uppercut at his face. Chimera got 2 for roughing and 5 for fighting. Rinaldo got 5 for fighting.

Now, I'm not saying it wasn't hilarious, justified, or fitting. Hell, I don't want him in the lineup. The fact is, the majority of this board wanted "fair treatment for all players" after the lack of a call on the Ovechkin slash on Letang. The same people were complaining about how it was unfair that Downie always got reputation calls. So I just want to see how those same people feel about Rinaldo getting 5 for fighting for not dropping his gloves/raising his fists, if you can take off the glasses and give insight on just the call.

Funny how several dim-wits around here have been arguing since the beginning of the year on this blog that advanced stats were useless and only for nerds and bloggers; that NHL teams were only claiming to use it to get fans to shut up and were not actually serious about it.

Then lo and behold the NHL announced they are spending years and millions of dollars to not only incorporate the frequently used stats, but they are also going to also look to improve and create new ones. Needless to say they've not had much to say since then.
- ImScore71

I think advanced stats play more of a role when looking at players who are not on your team for teams and coaches. They are going to eye test their own players, because its impossible not to when you see them day in and day out.

Aren't all fights Majors? Also didn't see it
- Guile

Yes...but he didn't fight. He kept his gloves on and got punched.

Funny how several dim-wits around here have been arguing since the beginning of the year on this blog that advanced stats were useless and only for nerds and bloggers; that NHL teams were only claiming to use it to get fans to shut up and were not actually serious about it.

Then lo and behold the NHL announced they are spending years and millions of dollars to not only incorporate the frequently used stats, but they are also going to also look to improve and create new ones. Needless to say they've not had much to say since then.
- ImScore71

Nerd

Rinaldo put a hit on Green (not much of one, mostly missed him) and Mike Green did his best "I'm tough and will crosscheck you until you turn around" bit. So Chimera came over, gave Rinaldo a gloved shot, and grabbed him. Rinaldo didn't drop his gloves and never even raised his hands. Chimera pulled him down and threw an uppercut at his face. Chimera got 2 for roughing and 5 for fighting. Rinaldo got 5 for fighting.

Now, I'm not saying it wasn't hilarious, justified, or fitting. Hell, I don't want him in the lineup. The fact is, the majority of this board wanted "fair treatment for all players" after the lack of a call on the Ovechkin slash on Letang. The same people were complaining about how it was unfair that Downie always got reputation calls. So I just want to see how those same people feel about Rinaldo getting 5 for fighting for not dropping his gloves/raising his fists, if you can take off the glasses and give insight on just the call.
- jmatchett383

Pretty BS, but that occurs a lot unfortunately. He is also Rinaldo, so you know hes not getting any benefit of the doubt.

Yes...but he didn't fight. He kept his gloves on and got punched.
- jmatchett383

You have to admit it was a beautiful uppercut. Bush league but very well executed.

Rinaldo put a hit on Green (not much of one, mostly missed him) and Mike Green did his best "I'm tough and will crosscheck you until you turn around" bit. So Chimera came over, gave Rinaldo a gloved shot, and grabbed him. Rinaldo didn't drop his gloves and never even raised his hands. Chimera pulled him down and threw an uppercut at his face. Chimera got 2 for roughing and 5 for fighting. Rinaldo got 5 for fighting.

Now, I'm not saying it wasn't hilarious, justified, or fitting. Hell, I don't want him in the lineup. The fact is, the majority of this board wanted "fair treatment for all players" after the lack of a call on the Ovechkin slash on Letang. The same people were complaining about how it was unfair that Downie always got reputation calls. So I just want to see how those same people feel about Rinaldo getting 5 for fighting for not dropping his gloves/raising his fists, if you can take off the glasses and give insight on just the call.
- jmatchett383

I think Rinaldo should have gotten 2 for roughing, I mean he didn't even drop his stick.

But wait...can't we find a guy who costs way less than 6M to do that for 87 and 71?

I mean we hear all the time about how we can get better for less when it comes to Sutter and Spaling.

Certainly we can get the same production Staal offers at less then 6M, can't we?
- icedog97

Inevitably that's were the market is going for paying good to better 3rd line centers. Someone already posted about some guys making around 5 mil. Granted its not the norm but it's headed that way. As for replacements who are cheaper, of the few likable names who will be UFA not one of them is really going to be cheaper than Sutter on their next contracts.

Soderberg is my personal fav, but he will get his raise if he's resigned in Boston or not. Vermette and Santorelli are the only other good names and their not exactly upgrades or coming in any cheaper; and none of them are close to Staal's production let alone his defensive intangibles. The only other option is Sundqvist and it's a stretch to think he would be ready next year let alone replace Sutter in any way.

Pretty BS, but that occurs a lot unfortunately. He is also Rinaldo, so you know hes not getting any benefit of the doubt.
- Guile

Although he's not the picture of clean hockey, Carcillo did the same thing to Matt Bardley in (I think) 2011. Bradley even got his gloves off, but it was very similar. Bradley got nothing, Carillo got 2, 2, 5, and a game.

I'm not saying it wasn't fitting, all I'm asking is whether or not you agree with the way it was called.

But wait...can't we find a guy who costs way less than 6M to do that for 87 and 71?

I mean we hear all the time about how we can get better for less when it comes to Sutter and Spaling.

Certainly we can get the same production Staal offers at less then 6M, can't we?
- icedog97

Again, the use of the word "production" is misleading. Give me a few names of better long term 3rd line Centers who costs less and could plausibly be available...

You have to admit it was a beautiful uppercut. Bush league but very well executed.
- dbell646

It was, and I enjoyed it. Just can't fathom how that can be considered "fighting."

So, how do you fans who want "fair treatment for all players regardless of who they are" (*coughOvechkincough) feel about Rinaldo's "fighting major" yesterday? Just wanna see if it goes both ways.
- jmatchett383

Bad call by the refs but even a worse call by Rinaldo for not dropping his gloves. The way he plays the game he can't pick and chose when he fights....but he should have only got 2pims

Although he's not the picture of clean hockey, Carcillo did the same thing to Matt Bardley in (I think) 2011. Bradley even got his gloves off, but it was very similar. Bradley got nothing, Carillo got 2, 2, 5, and a game.

I'm not saying it wasn't fitting, all I'm asking is whether or not you agree with the way it was called.
- jmatchett383

Not at all, but its like the uncalled cross checks anytime a goal is scored from the crease. Its part of the flawed system that (frank)s every team. A player sucker punches another? Penalize them both, maybe give one an extra 2 minutes. Its the norm on a bad system.

He's so good that Carolina won 57 of it's last 140 games and will miss the playoffs again this year?

I get the argument that a 6M piece in a 71M puzzle might work...

But we are repeatedly subjected to arguments about how bad the bottom 6 are and the nitpicking at the salaries of Sutter and Spaling...who BTW combined don't make as much as Staal.

You can't live by "sound reasoning" when it fits your argument, then abandon it completely when it comes to your favorite player. Especially if you spend a good deal of time criticizing coaches and management for ignoring the stats you push forth as the right way to build a team.
- icedog97

The advanced stats can be, and way too often are, slanted towards the bloggers opinion. All bloggers, not just this ones.

Staal is one guy on a very poorly built hockey team. Him back in the "Burgh would be absolutely huge for us going forward. It's a deal I would like to see done by the deadline so long as Pouliot, Depres, and Kapanen are not included. The second pick next year should also be coveted, but the window for winning is now and the next few years, the draft picks we currently hold won't be ready for at least two to three years. YouMeandDupuis threw out some lines last night that looked damn good with Staal; without injuries we'd be stacked.

Rinaldo put a hit on Green (not much of one, mostly missed him) and Mike Green did his best "I'm tough and will crosscheck you until you turn around" bit. So Chimera came over, gave Rinaldo a gloved shot, and grabbed him. Rinaldo didn't drop his gloves and never even raised his hands. Chimera pulled him down and threw an uppercut at his face. Chimera got 2 for roughing and 5 for fighting. Rinaldo got 5 for fighting.

Now, I'm not saying it wasn't hilarious, justified, or fitting. Hell, I don't want him in the lineup. The fact is, the majority of this board wanted "fair treatment for all players" after the lack of a call on the Ovechkin slash on Letang. The same people were complaining about how it was unfair that Downie always got reputation calls. So I just want to see how those same people feel about Rinaldo getting 5 for fighting for not dropping his gloves/raising his fists, if you can take off the glasses and give insight on just the call.
- jmatchett383

The more things stay the same, the more they stay the same.