I like this a lot, but I don't feel a burning desire to acquire Sekera if we manage to ship out Scuderi but don't move Martin. I think Dumoulin would be an upgrade over Scuderi anyways. The only issue would be configuring pairings. It would be obvious to put Despres in the top 4, but that would mean playing Pouliot and Dumoulin together which could be a disaster and would probably need to be overly sheltered.
- Victoro311

ill say this about our young guys on D. say we do theoretically traverse a bit down the staal reunion path, then the team is going to need to likely part with both martin and ehrhoff, and realistically wont be in the running to add any of the similar type veteran second pairing fill ins.

do we just finally say (frank) it, this is what we drafted them for, and hope that we can put together a young, cheap defense?

@TSNAaronWard: Amid Jordan Staal trade rumors, I am told he has been reassured today, by the team, that this speculation is unfounded. #TSN
- joescullz

What else is the team going to tell him?

I like this a lot, but I don't feel a burning desire to acquire Sekera if we manage to ship out Scuderi but don't move Martin. I think Dumoulin would be an upgrade over Scuderi anyways. The only issue would be configuring pairings. It would be obvious to put Despres in the top 4, but that would mean playing Pouliot and Dumoulin together which could be a disaster and would probably need to be overly sheltered.

I think Harrington is the obvious guy that'd we'd want to send the other way out of our prospects. We need two of Dumoulin, DP, and Harrington to be mainstays in our line up next season, and Harrington's the farthest away, but his upside could be a good selling point to Carolina. I'd hesitate to trade Dumo when we're gonna need his ELC next season to make the cap work.
- Victoro311

I dont think Scuds gets dealt until next deadline. No team us going to take him with 2 years left on that contract. 1 year is more doable and the return will be nominal.

@TSNAaronWard: Amid Jordan Staal trade rumors, I am told he has been reassured today, by the team, that this speculation is unfounded. #TSN
- joescullz

yeah. id think thats definitely the much more plausible reality of the matter.

yeah. id think thats definitely the much more plausible reality of the matter.
- stayinthefnnet

but operating under the premise of that he would be available, i have difficulty heavily leaning one way or the other.

for starters, the deal would have to be based around sutter and other considerations. i just cant see why the canes would want that. sutter blows. and then there is the matter of what those other considerations would have to realistically be.

to me, that is the first issue that must be addressed, before i can even really think about imagining how the salary would fit. it is a bad contract, and it would cause concessions to have to be made to accommodate it. but again, im not wholly convinced that they wouldnt be worth it either.

ill say this about our young guys on D. say we do theoretically traverse a bit down the staal reunion path, then the team is going to need to likely part with both martin and ehrhoff, and realistically wont be in the running to add any of the similar type veteran second pairing fill ins.

do we just finally say (frank) it, this is what we drafted them for, and hope that we can put together a young, cheap defense?
- stayinthefnnet

Thing is we weren't gonna retain them anyways, so that issue is pretty inconsequential. And yeah, we have to give the young guys the reigns. This is how we're gonna be deep with so much salary tied up in 87, 71, 58, and 28: taking advantage of cheap ELCs especially on the blue line.

Letang-Maatta
Despres-Pouliot
Dumoulin-x

That actually doesn't look bad with the emergence of Despres and Pouliot only getting better. I'd look to add a guy to add some experience to the group and play in the bottom pairing with Dumoulin, but certainly not a guy that costs in the ball park of 5 mil.

I think bolstering the 3C position at this point is more pressing than retaining Martin. We have a log jam of young defensemen that cost pennies and are suppose to be good. Time to take advantage of them and spend the money on making our bottom 6 good. Bringing Jordy back on board would go a long way to doing that. Both because he is a great player, and I think our team chemistry and moral would sky rocket once "#11 Staal" is seen over one of the lockers in Consol again.

but operating under the premise of that he would be available, i have difficulty heavily leaning one way or the other.

for starters, the deal would have to be based around sutter and other considerations. i just cant see why the canes would want that. sutter blows. and then there is the matter of what those other considerations would have to realistically be.

to me, that is the first issue that must be addressed, before i can even really think about imagining how the salary would fit. it is a bad contract, and it would cause concessions to have to be made to accommodate it. but again, im not wholly convinced that they wouldnt be worth it either.
- stayinthefnnet

Like I said earlier, if Carolina is going full rebuild I think that they can be convinced to retain salary. Imagine if they retain just 1 mil. 5 mil for the best 3C in the league is not an overpayment in my book. At least not a big one.

And Staal has a full no trade clause. He could pull an Iginla and basically dictate a trade to Pitt if the Canes are moving on from the brothers Staal. In that case, Carolina has no real leverage. They will take back Sutter and they will like it.

Thing is we weren't gonna retain them anyways, so that issue is pretty inconsequential. And yeah, we have to give the young guys the reigns. This is how we're gonna be deep with so much salary tied up in 87, 71, 58, and 28: taking advantage of cheap ELCs especially on the blue line.

Letang-Maatta
Despres-Pouliot
Dumoulin-x

That actually doesn't look bad with the emergence of Despres and Pouliot only getting better. I'd look to add a guy to add some experience to the group and play in the bottom pairing with Dumoulin, but certainly not a guy that costs in the ball park of 5 mil.

I think bolstering the 3C position at this point is more pressing than retaining Martin. We have a log jam of young defensemen that cost pennies and are suppose to be good. Time to take advantage of them and spend the money on making our bottom 6 good. Bringing Jordy back on board would go a long way to doing that. Both because he is a great player, and I think our team chemistry and moral would sky rocket once "#11 Staal" is seen over one of the lockers in Consol again.
- Victoro311

well, for starters, that X will likely be scuderi. and just as amped as i am about having such a young and cheap defense, im also still a little hesitant to make the total sweep so suddenly.

maatta back long term and healthy will be huge. despres continues to grow. pouliot will need to take serious strides for that much responsibility. again, none of these things are impossible, but none of them are sure locks either. i dont want to retain both of them, but i wouldnt be against retaining either if the contract was right (but, it likely wont be). i still think they may need one more veteran in there, although it might not be feasible depending on the contracts sought after by those types of guys.

Like I said earlier, if Carolina is going full rebuild I think that they can be convinced to retain salary. Imagine if they retain just 1 mil. 5 mil for the best 3C in the league is not an overpayment in my book. At least not a big one.

And Staal has a full no trade clause. He could pull an Iginla and basically dictate a trade to Pitt if the Canes are moving on from the brothers Staal. In that case, Carolina has no real leverage. They will take back Sutter and they will like it.
- Victoro311

if i'm carolina and truly looking to rebuild, i still think i can get back more than sutter. he will either want out, and give more than one option, or he can sit and burn through the rebuid. i dont see how adding sutter necessarily aids in their rebuild.

and yes. the retention of even 1 mil makes things significantly more valuable and appealing from a pens perspective.

well, for starters, that X will likely be scuderi. and just as amped as i am about having such a young and cheap defense, im also still a little hesitant to make the total sweep so suddenly.

maatta back long term and healthy will be huge. despres continues to grow. pouliot will need to take serious strides for that much responsibility. again, none of these things are impossible, but none of them are sure locks either. i dont want to retain both of them, but i wouldnt be against retaining either if the contract was right (but, it likely wont be). i still think they may need one more veteran in there, although it might not be feasible depending on the contracts sought after by those types of guys.
- stayinthefnnet

Not too sudden if you think about. This isn't Despres' first rodeo. He should be top 4 by next season. He's ready for it. I agree with your general point though. Dumo has to be ready and I'm hesitant to throw DP into the top 4. But when you're up against the cap like us, I don't think we can afford to spend money where its not really needed. Even if we go super young on D like I'm suggesting, it should by no means be a dumpster fire. Our main priority should be replacing Sutter right now regardless if you want Staal or not. We either need someone who is cheaper but not a downgrade, or we need to spend a little more for someone that's considerably better. I'd be ecstatic if either happened, but obviously I'm #TeamStaal.

Like I said earlier, if Carolina is going full rebuild I think that they can be convinced to retain salary. Imagine if they retain just 1 mil. 5 mil for the best 3C in the league is not an overpayment in my book. At least not a big one.

And Staal has a full no trade clause. He could pull an Iginla and basically dictate a trade to Pitt if the Canes are moving on from the brothers Staal. In that case, Carolina has no real leverage. They will take back Sutter and they will like it.
- Victoro311

it would have to be a really good deal for Carolina to consider paying out $8mil

if i'm carolina and truly looking to rebuild, i still think i can get back more than sutter. he will either want out, and give more than one option, or he can sit and burn through the rebuid. i dont see how adding sutter necessarily aids in their rebuild.

and yes. the retention of even 1 mil makes things significantly more valuable and appealing from a pens perspective.
- stayinthefnnet

Its not like I'm saying trade Sutter for Staal straight up. That would be dumb. I'm including a blue chip prospect and a draft pick here too which is what teams want during a rebuild. I don't think its absurd to think we could get Staalsy back for Sutter, Harrington, and a pick with the pick being higher or lower depending on salary retention.

Not too sudden if you think about. This isn't Despres' first rodeo. He should be top 4 by next season. He's ready for it. I agree with your general point though. Dumo has to be ready and I'm hesitant to throw DP into the top 4. But when you're up against the cap like us, I don't think we can afford to spend money where its not really needed. Even if we go super young on D like I'm suggesting, it should by no means be a dumpster fire. Our main priority should be replacing Sutter right now regardless if you want Staal or not. We either need someone who is cheaper but not a downgrade, or we need to spend a little more for someone that's considerably better. I'd be ecstatic if either happened, but obviously I'm #TeamStaal.
- Victoro311

staal was always one of my favorite players in his time here. instinctively i would do a cartwheel just to have him back in the fold, so i am trying to be reasonable in considering it. ideally, im still hesitant to make such a sweeping move to the young D, but i cant ignore the other side of the coin either. its fixing exactly what needs to be fixed with the team, within the caveat of accepting that the main core is here to stay.

im also just thinking long term, as thats just another massive contract to take on into the fold. i dont want to lose the ability to resign guys like comeau and downie.

but if youre telling me that your hypothetical deal sees staal having a mil of salary retained, for as much as i dont see it from Carolina's perspective, i am extremely tempted.

Its not like I'm saying trade Sutter for Staal straight up. That would be dumb. I'm including a blue chip prospect and a draft pick here too which is what teams want during a rebuild. I don't think its absurd to think we could get Staalsy back for Sutter, Harrington, and a pick with the pick being higher or lower depending on salary retention.
- Victoro311

for me the salary retention would pretty much be vital for it to be feasible from our end. i personally just cant see that from a carolina perspective, but if what youre offering me is Staal with 1 mil retained on each year of his deal, for Sutter, Harrington, and a pick that isnt our first next year, i really do think I'm game

staal was always one of my favorite players in his time here. instinctively i would do a cartwheel just to have him back in the fold, so i am trying to be reasonable in considering it. ideally, im still hesitant to make such a sweeping move to the young D, but i cant ignore the other side of the coin either. its fixing exactly what needs to be fixed with the team, within the caveat of accepting that the main core is here to stay.

im also just thinking long term, as thats just another massive contract to take on into the fold. i dont want to lose the ability to resign guys like comeau and downie.

but if youre telling me that your hypothetical deal sees staal having a mil of salary retained, for as much as i dont see it from Carolina's perspective, i am extremely tempted.
- stayinthefnnet

It's basically knocking out two issues with one stone for me. I've been worried for a while that our D boys are going to waste away in the pipeline and they won't have enough exp as they get older and lose their youth. Idealy, we'd have a Martin/Hoff type guy for one or two more years, but guys like that don't sign short term contracts for reasonable money. Signing, say, Hoff for five years at 5 mil is stupid because in a year or two he'll just be a luxury and then we're paying big bucks for a guy we don't need when we're up against the cap.

Management has shown an insistence on playing scrubs on the fourth line for the "grit" factor. Because of this, the 3rd line has to be as good as (frank)ing possible because our fourth won't ever contribute scoring. That's why I think that Staal isn't just a luxury and why I wouldn't mind moving mountains to add another big contract at his 3C position.

It's basically knocking out two issues with one stone for me. I've been worried for a while that our D boys are going to waste away in the pipeline and they won't have enough exp as they get older and lose their youth. Idealy, we'd have a Martin/Hoff type guy for one or two more years, but guys like that don't sign short term contracts for reasonable money. Signing, say, Hoff for five years at 5 mil is stupid because in a year or two he'll just be a luxury and then we're paying big bucks for a guy we don't need when we're up against the cap.

Management has shown an insistence on playing scrubs on the fourth line for the "grit" factor. Because of this, the 3rd line has to be as good as (frank)ing possible because our fourth won't ever contribute scoring. That's why I think that Staal isn't just a luxury and why I wouldn't mind moving mountains to add another big contract at his 3C position.
- Victoro311

i agree with the contract that a veteran defender is going to require. that gives me pause.

it also is just hard for me to shake the fact that the staal contract, when viewed in a vacuum, really is pretty bad. but man, a staal/spaling/downie line would be nice to have. even when that line isnt scoring, it would have the ability to cycle and chew up time without giving up chances the other way.