to me the deal is Kane for Armia ..


that's how i look at it
- gerbe75pts

I know there were rumors going around here at the end of last season that Armia was mad about being in Rochester all year and was considering jumping ship and going back to Europe. Maybe that has a bit of truth to it and Murray was afraid of something like that so saw an opportunity to unload him for something.

Who knows. There's so much speculation surrounding all of these guys that I don't know that we'll ever know the truth.

Edmonton never had the amount of quality prospects we did.

Also, im not exactly sure why having a lot of prospects suddenly diminishes their value
- sbroads24

This is why Armia becomes expendable. You answered your own question. We still have so many good prospects.

yup

jet fans are downplaying Bogo, hyping Myers, Armia and Lemieux

sabres fans are downplaying Armia, Lemieux, Myers and hyping Kane and Bog

we will know a bit more come November
- homiedclown

My guess, most Jets fans have no clue about Armia or Lemieux.

I know there were rumors going around here at the end of last season that Armia was mad about being in Rochester all year and was considering jumping ship and going back to Europe. Maybe that has a bit of truth to it and Murray was afraid of something like that so saw an opportunity to unload him for something.

Who knows. There's so much speculation surrounding all of these guys that I don't know that we'll ever know the truth.
- HonkFortheGoose

Yes that was going around last year that he was thinking about going back to Europe. He was a big question mark going forward.

This is why Armia becomes expendable. You answered your own question. We still have so many good prospects.
- Cheeseballin

The argument i'd make is there's a chance that for both Armia and Lemieux, there value will never be higher than it is right now.

In a few years if they don't make much progress you won't be able to package them for much at all. Or they could exceed expectations, but that's a chance Murray felt was worth taking (probably helps that he's wanted kane for a while now).

I know there were rumors going around here at the end of last season that Armia was mad about being in Rochester all year and was considering jumping ship and going back to Europe. Maybe that has a bit of truth to it and Murray was afraid of something like that so saw an opportunity to unload him for something.

Who knows. There's so much speculation surrounding all of these guys that I don't know that we'll ever know the truth.
- HonkFortheGoose

It just seems like to me that every Buffalo prospect is unhappy there which i don't buy for a second
Armia unhappy, Lemieux unhappy, Larsson not happy, Grigorenko not happy (except he has beef, he was extremely mishandled), Zadorov going to Russia instead of Sabres... like i just don't buy it lol. Not for a second. If all thats true then they're all little poops.
Who's next in the unhappy camp of prospects?

It just seems like to me that every Buffalo prospect is unhappy there which i don't buy for a second
Armia unhappy, Lemieux unhappy, Larsson not happy, Grigorenko not happy (except he has beef, he was extremely mishandled), Zadorov going to Russia instead of Sabres... like i just don't buy it lol. Not for a second. If all thats true then they're all little poops.
Who's next in the unhappy camp of prospects?
- FLYERSROCK!

Zadorov's was a calculated move i don't think he was actually un happy but i see your point and i do agree. Larsson's been AHL slumming it for a while though

It just seems like to me that every Buffalo prospect is unhappy there which i don't buy for a second
Armia unhappy, Lemieux unhappy, Larsson not happy, Grigorenko not happy (except he has beef, he was extremely mishandled), Zadorov going to Russia instead of Sabres... like i just don't buy it lol. Not for a second. If all thats true then they're all little poops.
Who's next in the unhappy camp of prospects?
- FLYERSROCK!

The issue with a lot of high end prospects is that things have come pretty easily for them and they have a feeling of entitlement. We've seen it with a lot of guys, but in different ways. Like Pat Kane running around doing dumb poop to the point that Chicago pays for a guy to keep him in line.

Larsson has voiced his displeasure. As has Grigorenko. I'm not really 100% sure about Armia, because like I said, I saw it on here. The Zadorov situation was bogus, but true. He basically forced their hand.

This is why Armia becomes expendable. You answered your own question. We still have so many good prospects.
- Cheeseballin

Behind Reinhart, don't you think Armia was #2? I mean i think he's going to be a solid top 6 guy. Losing guys like him hurt, but getting E Kane back makes it better

Lemieux I really can't see being a top 6 player, but who knows, thats up to him. I see him as a pretty good 3rd line checker, top out at like 40P. Just what i see.

The argument i'd make is there's a chance that for both Armia and Lemieux, there value will never be higher than it is right now.

In a few years if they don't make much progress you won't be able to package them for much at all. Or they could exceed expectations, but that's a chance Murray felt was worth taking (probably helps that he's wanted kane for a while now).
- Sabresfan-365

Or Armia scores 20 as a rookie and he could have been moved straight up for Kane. We will see. I have a feeling we will be regretting moving him

This is why Armia becomes expendable. You answered your own question. We still have so many good prospects.
- Cheeseballin

So when we pick McDavid is Reinhart expendable?

Why does a prospect lose value just because he is part of an organization with a lot

Behind Reinhart, don't you think Armia was #2? I mean i think he's going to be a solid top 6 guy. Losing guys like him hurt, but getting E Kane back makes it better

Lemieux I really can't see being a top 6 player, but who knows, thats up to him. I see him as a pretty good 3rd line checker, top out at like 40P. Just what i see.
- FLYERSROCK!

The thing with Armia, is that at least early on after he was drafted, he reminded me a lot of Vanek. If things weren't going his way, he was completely disinterested in putting in the necessary effort. The first WJC tournament he was in after he was drafted was a good example of it. In most of the Rochester games that I saw, I didn't notice him as much as I would have liked. For a guy that's supposed to be high skill, he was kind of a ghost. He's going to put up good numbers during his career, but I don't know that he'll ever be a very big impact player, if that makes any sense.

The issue with a lot of high end prospects is that things have come pretty easily for them and they have a feeling of entitlement. We've seen it with a lot of guys, but in different ways. Like Pat Kane running around doing dumb poop to the point that Chicago pays for a guy to keep him in line.

Larsson has voiced his displeasure. As has Grigorenko. I'm not really 100% sure about Armia, because like I said, I saw it on here. The Zadorov situation was bogus, but true. He basically forced their hand.
- HonkFortheGoose

Grigorenko is the only one that should have beef. I actually feel sorry for the guy. I've never seen a prospect so mishandled like him before. Like the way they've handled him is just like... its brutal. That shouldn't happen. He should've ben sent back Y1. Then in Y2 you try him out for 9 games, and you either keep him or you send him back. You don't let him play 25 games or w/e, healthy scratch him, then play him, then send him back.
Just super poor management. Then Tim Murray comes in and sets everything straight, sends him down for the entire year like he should've.

I think you guys broke him though. We'll see. I was so excited about him.

So when we pick McDavid is Reinhart expendable?

Why does a prospect lose value just because he is part of an organization with a lot
- sbroads24

In general prospects alone aren't going to get you NHL players. That's why a package deal gets put together. Or a lesser NHL player gets traded with a prospect for a better NHL player.

I don't know why you're picking this apart so much and making it seem like you don't understand. You've been around long enough to see how this stuff works.

Or Armia scores 20 as a rookie and he could have been moved straight up for Kane. We will see. I have a feeling we will be regretting moving him
- sbroads24

In a few years if they don't make much progress you won't be able to package them for much at all. Or they could exceed expectations, but that's a chance Murray felt was worth taking (probably helps that he's wanted kane for a while now).

C'mon man give me some credit


But you're right time will tell and the fact that we don't know what to expect from any of these players has got everybody on edge

Behind Reinhart, don't you think Armia was #2? I mean i think he's going to be a solid top 6 guy. Losing guys like him hurt, but getting E Kane back makes it better

Lemieux I really can't see being a top 6 player, but who knows, thats up to him. I see him as a pretty good 3rd line checker, top out at like 40P. Just what i see.
- FLYERSROCK!

No I'd put Grigorenko at 2. He could be a top 6 guy sure. Or he could be a bust. No knowing at this point still. The way I look at is this. We get a 1st line winger who has proven to be a goal scorer in the NHL for a guy who could be a top 6 winger, Lemiuex who is way to early in his development to decide and a pick.

Grigorenko is the only one that should have beef. I actually feel sorry for the guy. I've never seen a prospect so mishandled like him before. Like the way they've handled him is just like... its brutal. That shouldn't happen. He should've ben sent back Y1. Then in Y2 you try him out for 9 games, and you either keep him or you send him back. You don't let him play 25 games or w/e, healthy scratch him, then play him, then send him back.
Just super poor management. Then Tim Murray comes in and sets everything straight, sends him down for the entire year like he should've.

I think you guys broke him though. We'll see. I was so excited about him.
- FLYERSROCK!

I don't think he's broken. He's having a good year with Rochester. He came into camp with a great attitude. Yes, he was disappointed in going to Rochester, but he didn't seem to really let it get him down in terms of his play. He needs a contract after this year and would need to clear waivers to go down, so I'm guessing he ends up on the NHL roster.

So when we pick McDavid is Reinhart expendable?

Why does a prospect lose value just because he is part of an organization with a lot
- sbroads24

It wouldn't diminish his value overall (in my eyes anyways) but it would make losing him hurt a lot less, especially if we were getting some we need in return.

The thing with Armia, is that at least early on after he was drafted, he reminded me a lot of Vanek. If things weren't going his way, he was completely disinterested in putting in the necessary effort. The first WJC tournament he was in after he was drafted was a good example of it. In most of the Rochester games that I saw, I didn't notice him as much as I would have liked. For a guy that's supposed to be high skill, he was kind of a ghost. He's going to put up good numbers during his career, but I don't know that he'll ever be a very big impact player, if that makes any sense.
- HonkFortheGoose

I thought the same thing when watching him in the WJC. He is like a shinny player who only feels like playing when they have the puck near the net. He just didn't seem all that interested otherwise. Now, I have never seen him play another game outside the WJC, so maybe the sample size was to small to see what the kid actually has.

[qHeh didnt ote=HonkFortheGoose]In general prospects alone aren't going to get you NHL players. That's why a package deal gets put together. Or a lesser NHL player gets traded with a prospect for a better NHL player.

I don't know why you're picking this apart so much and making it seem like you don't understand. You've been around long enough to see how this stuff works.
What? Its a simple question. Why does a prospect lose value because hes part of a team with a lot.

The contract excuse is just an excuse. He didn't have to move 3 prospects in one deal. This trade didnt need to happen because of contracts

So when we pick McDavid is Reinhart expendable?

Why does a prospect lose value just because he is part of an organization with a lot
- sbroads24

He didn't lose value. We have more guys in the pipeline that project the same as he does. He was the furthest along in development.

The thing with Armia, is that at least early on after he was drafted, he reminded me a lot of Vanek. If things weren't going his way, he was completely disinterested in putting in the necessary effort. The first WJC tournament he was in after he was drafted was a good example of it. In most of the Rochester games that I saw, I didn't notice him as much as I would have liked. For a guy that's supposed to be high skill, he was kind of a ghost. He's going to put up good numbers during his career, but I don't know that he'll ever be a very big impact player, if that makes any sense.
- HonkFortheGoose

I've heard quite a few Sabres fans mention he gets lazy at times.
He does have near a PPG in the AHL which is actually quite rare for AHL standards... so he is putting up points.

I think that also shows that when he tries, he's REALLY good, and even when he doesn't really try he still manages to get points...

really sounds like Alex Semin doesn't it?

Giroux and Voracek have been nearly invisible since the ASB, yet they still have 5P each in 7 GP. Great players still find a way to produce on their off nights

What? Its a simple question. Why does a prospect lose value because hes part of a team with a lot.

The contract excuse is just an excuse. He didn't have to move 3 prospects in one deal. This trade didnt need to happen because of contracts
- sbroads24

They don't lose value. That's like saying that the dollar bills a millionaire has have less value than someone who's middle class.

So just like when a millionaire wants something they can offer more money, when you have more prospects, you can offer more to get what you want. It doesn't mean they're any less valuable.

He didn't lose value. We have more guys in the pipeline that project the same as he does. He was the furthest along in development.
- Cheeseballin

No we dont. Who projects to be a top 6 winger now?

We traded the two best goal scoring wing prospects we had for a guy whos attitude problems have disappeared over the last 72 hours

No we dont. Who projects to be a top 6 winger now?

We traded the two best goal scoring wing prospects we had for a guy whos attitude problems have disappeared over the last 72 hours
- sbroads24

Baptiste or Bailey are two that come to my mind.