Is it though? Because I feel like many of the prospects that he traded away haven't amounted to anything at the NHL level, I can't recall any of the prospects that we've traded away that are significant NHL players. And the ones that are playing in the NHL are the ones that are still on the Pens. Esposito, Morrow, Christensen, Cupati, Agostino, Hanowski... those guys haven't done ANYTHING yet. BUT Shero did acquire Pouliot, Harrington, Dumolin (you know the guys everyone on this board wants to go into the post season, playing 20 minutes a night.. yeah those guys...) Shero was good at drafting players and selling them high on trades, when they pan out to nothing. BUT He was bad at drafting actual players that were of use in the Pens system, IE forwards.

Yeah Murray was slow, but so was Hal Gill... and that worked out when we won the cup. I don't think that we acquired Iginla to "keep him away from Boston." We acquired to give us the best chance to win a cup. Not Shero's fault that the coach/players blew an opportunity with one of the most stacked Penguins teams in a salary cap era.

For as much bad as Shero did, he sure did a lot of good too... regardless of what everyone thinks.
- j.boyd919

The only thing Shero did good was get some PMDs in the draft. He essentially ruined our prospect pool with stupid deal for non impact rentals. This is why we have to rely on players we do in the event of injury.

Was it the coaching staff who blew the Iginla thing? How about Shero. He did the deal to keep Jarome away from Boston. We didn't need him. He was redundant. It was a foolish move to make, even if the cost was two middling prospects and a first round pick. Very good chance that first round pick yielded more for us than Iginla did. Not like he did jack poop here.

our farm system is devoid talent. That is why we have to rely on the players we do. It's devoid of talent because of foolish trades for non impact rentals that don't yield much when they come over.
- Oneonta Penguin

i think rentals need to be smart.

they need to be first and foremost, a team need. secondly, they need to be reasonable in the cost of acquisition.

iginla simply was not a team need. ill admit i was excited when we got him, but if you take that bluster aside and logically think about it, he never really was a need.

murray, i can at least see the thought process. but for 2 seconds, that was egregious by any semblance of the imagination.

Is it though? Because I feel like many of the prospects that he traded away haven't amounted to anything at the NHL level, I can't recall any of the prospects that we've traded away that are significant NHL players. And the ones that are playing in the NHL are the ones that are still on the Pens. Esposito, Morrow, Christensen, Cupati, Agostino, Hanowski... those guys haven't done ANYTHING yet. BUT Shero did acquire Pouliot, Harrington, Dumolin (you know the guys everyone on this board wants to go into the post season, playing 20 minutes a night.. yeah those guys...) Shero was good at drafting players and selling them high on trades, when they pan out to nothing. BUT He was bad at drafting actual players that were of use in the Pens system, IE forwards.

Yeah Murray was slow, but so was Hal Gill... and that worked out when we won the cup. I don't think that we acquired Iginla to "keep him away from Boston." We acquired to give us the best chance to win a cup. Not Shero's fault that the coach/players blew an opportunity with one of the most stacked Penguins teams in a salary cap era.

For as much bad as Shero did, he sure did a lot of good too... regardless of what everyone thinks.
- j.boyd919

This man gets it.

Edit: The Murray trade made me cringe then, and still makes me cringe. One of the only trades Shero lost IMO

i think rentals need to be smart.

they need to be first and foremost, a team need. secondly, they need to be reasonable in the cost of acquisition.

iginla simply was not a team need. ill admit i was excited when we got him, but if you take that bluster aside and logically think about it, he never really was a need.

murray, i can at least see the thought process. but for 2 seconds, that was egregious by any semblance of the imagination.
- stayinthefnnet

I trade Sutter for a rental. I think he can easily be replaced in FA. I only trade Beau for another young player.

I still think Iggy wasn't used correctly. Dan butchered that year...no doubt in my mind.

Is it though? Because I feel like many of the prospects that he traded away haven't amounted to anything at the NHL level, I can't recall any of the prospects that we've traded away that are significant NHL players. And the ones that are playing in the NHL are the ones that are still on the Pens. Esposito, Morrow, Christensen, Cupati, Agostino, Hanowski... those guys haven't done ANYTHING yet. BUT Shero did acquire Pouliot, Harrington, Dumolin (you know the guys everyone on this board wants to go into the post season, playing 20 minutes a night.. yeah those guys...) Shero was good at drafting players and selling them high on trades, when they pan out to nothing. BUT He was bad at drafting actual players that were of use in the Pens system, IE forwards.

Yeah Murray was slow, but so was Hal Gill... and that worked out when we won the cup. I don't think that we acquired Iginla to "keep him away from Boston." We acquired to give us the best chance to win a cup. Not Shero's fault that the coach/players blew an opportunity with one of the most stacked Penguins teams in a salary cap era.

For as much bad as Shero did, he sure did a lot of good too... regardless of what everyone thinks.
- j.boyd919

still very much agree with this. he made some mistakes, but he also did many good things. i think its impossible to look back and take that away from him in entirety. i think his main sin was just doubling down on danny more than he should have, and when the axe fell, it got them both.

The only thing Shero did good was get some PMDs in the draft. He essentially ruined our prospect pool with stupid deal for non impact rentals. This is why we have to rely on players we do in the event of injury.

Was it the coaching staff who blew the Iginla thing? How about Shero. He did the deal to keep Jarome away from Boston. We didn't need him. He was redundant. It was a foolish move to make, even if the cost was two middling prospects and a first round pick. Very good chance that first round pick yielded more for us than Iginla did. Not like he did jack poop here.
- Oneonta Penguin

Unless you somehow work for the Penguins, know Shero personally, or are a GM... I'm not sure how you can say he did it to keep Iggy from Boston and that we didn't need him. The job of the GM is to construct the best possible team to win the cup, and that team was STACKED. IF that team had won the cup people would be talking about how that was the best team since the 92-93 Pens that got bounced by the Islanders. And how the acquisition of Iginla put them over the top and yada yada...

Olli Maatta stopped into my work today to get coffee so I got to talk to him for about 10 minutes. His arms in a sling but he says he feels great, oddly he didn't have that on when I saw him two days after he had the surgery but I'm probably reading too much into that.

He laughed when I told him his shirt was bringing us luck whenever I wear it, and after I told him my girlfriend got me Sid's third jersey he said they are his favorite and that there is a good chance they will be our full time sweaters next season!

If its true I think they should take the Stadium Series ones, replace the vegas gold with pittsburgh gold, and make those our new away jerseys.

i think rentals need to be smart.

they need to be first and foremost, a team need. secondly, they need to be reasonable in the cost of acquisition.

iginla simply was not a team need. ill admit i was excited when we got him, but if you take that bluster aside and logically think about it, he never really was a need.

murray, i can at least see the thought process. but for 2 seconds, that was egregious by any semblance of the imagination.
- stayinthefnnet

I will buy the "IF" its a dire team need. However, some of the run of the mill names bandied about this board to bring in don't solve much. Jagr doesn't. Does forking over a second round pick or a prime D prospect for a third line rental like Daniel Winnick make sense? The third line isn't what costs us in the play-offs. It's the top two lines inability to score. They didn't last year.

I agree with you ... the Murray deal stings alot. That was a pretty steep price to pay for a D man that was not only a pending UFA, but one that fell out of favor with SJ and was a healthy scratch down the stretch before the deal. Iginla was a worthless move indeed. He didn't solve a problem, but caused more.

I trade Sutter for a rental. I think he can easily be replaced in FA. I only trade Beau for another young player.

I still think Iggy wasn't used correctly. Dan butchered that year...no doubt in my mind.
- madmike71

i agree with iggy. but i do think they could have gotten by without barking up that tree.

i am fine trading sutter for a rental. vermette would be the perfect guy. he fits an area of team need. but it would take more to get him. i dont even think the inclusion of bennett alone makes them bite, but if it did, i would be willing to take that risk.

realistically, vermette probably cant be resigned at the end of the year. id like him to, but i dont think losing sutter/bennett off the books is enough to fit him.

but its not as if the pens are losing any of the prime prospects or high draft picks, and they are getting exactly the upgrade they need on the third.

still very much agree with this. he made some mistakes, but he also did many good things. i think its impossible to look back and take that away from him in entirety. i think his main sin was just doubling down on danny more than he should have, and when the axe fell, it got them both.
- stayinthefnnet

Admit it, you still haven't recovered from trading away Angelo Esposito.

I will buy the "IF" its a dire team need. However, some of the run of the mill names bandied about this board to bring in don't solve much. Jagr doesn't. Does forking over a second round pick or a prime D prospect for a third line rental like Daniel Winnick make sense? The third line isn't what costs us in the play-offs. It's the top two lines inability to score. They didn't last year.

I agree with you ... the Murray deal stings alot. That was a pretty steep price to pay for a D man that was not only a pending UFA, but one that fell out of favor with SJ and was a healthy scratch down the stretch before the deal. Iginla was a worthless move indeed. He didn't solve a problem, but caused more.
- Oneonta Penguin

winnik IS a team need in my eyes. so he passes the first prong of the test. then you consider the price. realistically, i would think a third rounder and a fifth rounder is reasonable. (i know we dont have those picks) but thats really what he is to me. im not willing to move any of the guys penciled in as defensive starters next year for it. if he cant be acquired for that price, you simply just move on.

Unless you somehow work for the Penguins, know Shero personally, or are a GM... I'm not sure how you can say he did it to keep Iggy from Boston and that we didn't need him. The job of the GM is to construct the best possible team to win the cup, and that team was STACKED. IF that team had won the cup people would be talking about how that was the best team since the 92-93 Pens that got bounced by the Islanders. And how the acquisition of Iginla put them over the top and yada yada...
- j.boyd919

I can say it. He either did it to keep him away from Boston, or he was the dumbest GM in the league because Iggy was redundant. He wasn't a true need. Notice, Iggy's acquisition caused more problems in the lineup than helped. They didn't use him correctly is the excuse I hear all the time. If that is the case, our GM and HC weren't on the same page. You would have thought there would be a plan in place to use him correctly if this wasn't anything having to do with acquiring him to keep him away from Boston. There wasn't a plan whatsoever. It was a trade that DIND'T need to be made. The purpose of the deal was what? To improve already the best power play in the NHL at the time? LOL.

The roster went dysfunctional once Iggy landed.

Olli Maatta stopped into my work today to get coffee so I got to talk to him for about 10 minutes. His arms in a sling but he says he feels great, oddly he didn't have that on when I saw him two days after he had the surgery but I'm probably reading too much into that.

He laughed when I told him his shirt was bringing us luck whenever I wear it, and after I told him my girlfriend got me Sid's third jersey he said they are his favorite and that there is a good chance they will be our full time sweaters next season!

If its true I think they should take the Stadium Series ones, replace the vegas gold with pittsburgh gold, and make those our new away jerseys.
- ImScore71

Did you ask him to arm wrestle ?

I trade Sutter for a rental. I think he can easily be replaced in FA. I only trade Beau for another young player.

I still think Iggy wasn't used correctly. Dan butchered that year...no doubt in my mind.
- madmike71

Iggy 100% could have been great here. Dan just needed to do one god damn thing. SWAP HIM AND NEAL'S SIDES!
Iggy played one side his whole career, and we didn't give that to him. Neal played all but 1 year on the side we forced Iggy into. I understand fully that Neal was doing better on the other side, but it was painfully obvious you sacrifice some of Neal's production to give Iggy full production.

winnik IS a team need in my eyes. so he passes the first prong of the test. then you consider the price. realistically, i would think a third rounder and a fifth rounder is reasonable. (i know we dont have those picks) but thats really what he is to me. im not willing to move any of the guys penciled in as defensive starters next year for it. if he cant be acquired for that price, you simply just move on.
- stayinthefnnet

we are one the same page as far as price for Winnik. He isn't worth anymore than that.

Unless you somehow work for the Penguins, know Shero personally, or are a GM... I'm not sure how you can say he did it to keep Iggy from Boston and that we didn't need him. The job of the GM is to construct the best possible team to win the cup, and that team was STACKED. IF that team had won the cup people would be talking about how that was the best team since the 92-93 Pens that got bounced by the Islanders. And how the acquisition of Iginla put them over the top and yada yada...
- j.boyd919

The one thing I think that blew the most during the Shero era was drafting outside the first two rounds. To be honest the thing I wanted most this off season when JR came in was to see a press release saying he was firing everyone on the effing scouting staff and bringing in new guys, and a lot of them, with good experience and resumes poached from other teams or leagues. But it never happened, probably he came in so close to the draft.

I know the later rounds are a crapshoot. But if a couple other teams can scout and draft better in those areas then I think we could to with the right people, or hell just more of them.

The one thing I think that blew the most during the Shero era was drafting outside the first two rounds. To be honest the thing I wanted most this off season when JR came in was to see a press release saying he was firing everyone on the effing scouting staff and bringing in new guys, and a lot of them, with good experience and resumes poached from other teams or leagues. But it never happened, probably he came in so close to the draft.

I know the later rounds are a crapshoot. But if a couple other teams can scout and draft better in those areas then I think we could to with the right people, or hell just more of them.
- ImScore71

Some teams have made a living at doing very well in the later rounds. No, its not an exact science and its a crapshoot. However, organizations like Detroit and once a proud NJ organization, did very well in round 4-7. Funny how times have changed. NJ can't draft for poop now.

i agree with iggy. but i do think they could have gotten by without barking up that tree.

i am fine trading sutter for a rental. vermette would be the perfect guy. he fits an area of team need. but it would take more to get him. i dont even think the inclusion of bennett alone makes them bite, but if it did, i would be willing to take that risk.

realistically, vermette probably cant be resigned at the end of the year. id like him to, but i dont think losing sutter/bennett off the books is enough to fit him.

but its not as if the pens are losing any of the prime prospects or high draft picks, and they are getting exactly the upgrade they need on the third.
- stayinthefnnet

We'll never know if Iggy could have made an impact. The single thing that infuriated me the most was not giving him a shot on the #1pp. The PP was stone cold dead and Dan doesn't change one thing until the second to last PP in game 4. That's either dumb or hard headed....either way he deserved to be fired the next day.

While I agree they didn't necessarily need Iggy, I can't judge the result based on the fool making the decisions behind the bench.

I can say it. He either did it to keep him away from Boston, or he was the dumbest GM in the league because Iggy was redundant. He wasn't a true need. Notice, Iggy's acquisition caused more problems in the lineup than helped. They didn't use him correctly is the excuse I hear all the time. If that is the case, our GM and HC weren't on the same page. You would have thought there would be a plan in place to use him correctly if this wasn't anything having to do with acquiring him to keep him away from Boston. There wasn't a plan whatsoever. It was a trade that DIND'T need to be made. The purpose of the deal was what? To improve already the best power play in the NHL at the time? LOL.

The roster went dysfunctional once Iggy landed.
- Oneonta Penguin

You can blame the disfunction on Disco ( I do). Iggy played his whole career on the right side but Dan put him on the left. Neal should have been moved to the left (where he played before coming to Pitt) and Iggy on the right with Malkin....but it was once again a case of Disco not changing his ways

I can say it. He either did it to keep him away from Boston, or he was the dumbest GM in the league because Iggy was redundant. He wasn't a true need. Notice, Iggy's acquisition caused more problems in the lineup than helped. They didn't use him correctly is the excuse I hear all the time. If that is the case, our GM and HC weren't on the same page. You would have thought there would be a plan in place to use him correctly if this wasn't anything having to do with acquiring him to keep him away from Boston. There wasn't a plan whatsoever. It was a trade that DIND'T need to be made. The purpose of the deal was what? To improve already the best power play in the NHL at the time? LOL.

The roster went dysfunctional once Iggy landed.
- Oneonta Penguin

If a GM is making a trade to keep one player away from another team they shouldn't be a GM in the first place, that is absurd.

Admit it, you still haven't recovered from trading away Angelo Esposito.
- jmatchett383

This might be your best post ever.......

we are one the same page as far as price for Winnik. He isn't worth anymore than that.
- Oneonta Penguin

maybe we are just cheap, and i get things are worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it, but in my mind, thats just really what he should be worth.

any more than that, and the long term sacrifice is too great for the potential short term gain. i understand the win now mentality, and i am partial to it given the current makeup of the team.

but moving for a nice third line guy like winnick isnt like swinging for the fences with the big deadline guy in hossa or whatever.

the guy i really want is vermette, and for the price he will cost, that probably will be nonsensical as well.

Admit it, you still haven't recovered from trading away Angelo Esposito.
- jmatchett383

i havent recovered from a lot of things buddy.

maybe we are just cheap, and i get things are worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it, but in my mind, thats just really what he should be worth.

any more than that, and the long term sacrifice is too great for the potential short term gain. i understand the win now mentality, and i am partial to it given the current makeup of the team.

but moving for a nice third line guy like winnick isnt like swinging for the fences with the big deadline guy in hossa or whatever.

the guy i really want is vermette, and for the price he will cost, that probably will be nonsensical as well.
- stayinthefnnet

3rd and a 5th sounds right for Winnick. Same price we paid for Goc last year, and he is the same type of player.

One quarter-year of Iginla > careers of Morgan Klimchuk, Kenny Agostino, and Ben Hanowski.