Spaling played half season top six, his production is not good enough.

- usethe1-2-2

His production isn't out of line with last year. Just because he plays in the top 6 because of injuries that doesn't mean you can suddenly expect him to be a 25 goal scorer. Not everyone is Pascal Dupuis. Spaling has been solid for most of the year. They're not losing games because of Spaling.

Sutter has not played well. 18 goals is not going to cut it if he isn't bringing anything else to the table. He's been weak and can't carry the play.
- usethe1-2-2

18 goals out of my third line center is fine with me. I also wouldn't expect my third line center to constantly carry play. Sutter is ice cold right now, but it's a long season and I'm sure he'll go back to the way he played early in the season and in the playoffs last year before long. My confidence for improved play from slumping players doesn't end with Sid and Geno.

Downie shows him up every night, that's pathetic for his cap hit.
4th lines just shouldn't survive anymore. That's an outdated philosophy and doesn't work.
- usethe1-2-2

Downie hasn't scored a point in 6 games.

I'm sorry that you can't see that.

- usethe1-2-2

I'm sorry that you know your argument is weak, so you have to say crap like that.

And also, Fleury leads the league in shutouts but has a rather average save%. He is inconsistent this season and needs to be better.
- usethe1-2-2

.922 is a rather average save percentage? Tied for 11th in the league among qualifiers? And it's gone down only since the massive injuries have occurred?

It's funny to see people blaming Greiss but if Fluery was in net they would make excuses saying the team in front of him didn't help and that Fluery was hung out to dry all night.

- Guins6687

Fleury has been criticized and minimized after shutouts this year.

The whole team was bad, but Greiss has been iffy for a while now.

And like I said, I'm criticizing the process, not the results. Greiss is tentative. He's a statue. Works well against perimeter teams or non-playoff teams lacking in talent, but not against good teams with skill. One win against a team with a winning record this year.

Haha, no the only one that was the hot goalie was Halak. We actually generated offense against him.
The past three years we just got flat out beat because of bad coaching and apoor structure. Its now catching up to us.
The funny thing is you people mad at Johnston need to cool it. It takes time to develop players and get your team to actually be your team. It doesn't happen overnight. The cup chances this season were slim to begin with. Getting Perron and Hornqvist are moves for the future as much as they are moves for the now.
- usethe1-2-2

If you didn't like Bylsma, you can't like Johnston. Same strategy for filling out the 4th line. Same "mysterious" personnel decisions. Same lack of "adjustments." Same refusal to "line match." Same lack of "accountability" for most players. Same "deer in the headlights" look on the bench. Same "sloppy" and "careless" play. Same lack of "jump."

Basically, they traded the easy to defend stretch pass with the easy to defend clustered breakout.

So we want more roster depth.

Yet we are all proposing sending multiple assets out the door for a single asset in return (multiple pieces for Kane or whoever).

Not exactly addressing the depth situation.

Perhaps we should be the team sending out a single player and getting multiple assets back?

I did t get to watch the game last night....did we really stink that bad?

I did t get to watch the game last night....did we really stink that bad?
- pensfan024

The complete opposite of the Calgary game. It was like night and day.

When you have a team with sid and malkin, every year is a possibility to win the Stanley cup. You're making it seem like the team is rebuilding. Johnston and JR only have a couple years to prove they can bring the team over the top and win a Stanley cup.
- drummer829

Bull crap, this is a 4 line league and until you figure that out you will not understand what it takes to win a cup.

Fleury has been criticized and minimized after shutouts this year.

The whole team was bad, but Greiss has been iffy for a while now.

And like I said, I'm criticizing the process, not the results. Greiss is tentative. He's a statue. Works well against perimeter teams or non-playoff teams lacking in talent, but not against good teams with skill. One win against a team with a winning record this year.
- hardnosed

Agreed Fleury is not the problem.

I don't understand how the Pens are a team with this much talent and posters are blaming Sill, Sutter, Adams and Scuderi. The blame begins with Crosby and Malkin... period end of story...

Agreed Fleury is not the problem.

I don't understand how the Pens are a team with this much talent and posters are blaming Sill, Sutter, Adams and Scuderi. The blame begins with Crosby and Malkin... period end of story...
- Brianandr1

Malkin and Crosby can't play the whole game...you have to get secondary scoring, and you get none of that from the bottom two lines right now and you haven't gotten it fromt he 4th line pretty much all season. You think its difficult for them to score now, wait till the playoffs when the 4th line is zero threat to score. I mean, can you imagine getting 7-10 minutes of free time each game, because you have no fear of the 4th line?

Horvat's not.
- JameyVinnick

Selke for sure.

All things considered, I still have faith in this team.

Malkin and Crosby can't play the whole game...you have to get secondary scoring, and you get none of that from the bottom two lines right now and you haven't gotten it fromt he 4th line pretty much all season. You think its difficult for them to score now, wait till the playoffs when the 4th line is zero threat to score. I mean, can you imagine getting 7-10 minutes of free time each game, because you have no fear of the 4th line?
- Thorny

It hasn't looked like free time lately for the opponents when the 4th line has been out there.

The Cup team featured such luminaries as Tim Wallace, Chris Minard, Eric Goddard, Jeff Taffe and Mike Zigomanis on the 4th line for large stretches of the season.

Give me these lines and will talk Stanley cup. Perron Crosby hornquist, Kuntiz Malkin jagr, comeu sutter dowine, spaling lapierre Winnik.

Am I the only one here who like arcobello? Give him sutters spot and send sutter to the 4th line

Am I the only one here who like arcobello? Give him sutters spot and send sutter to the 4th line
- drummer829

I like Arcobello, but that doesn't mean he's good. I like how he plays and I think his size is just unfortunate. If he was bigger, he could be a legitimately solid player in this league.

That being said, I'm under the impression that he can replace Sutter seamlessly. I think he tries hard enough that he's actually more solid around the boards than Flats is and he's decent enough skill wise that I'd take his tenacity over Sutter's pretty wrists. Not saying Arco's a huge upgrade over Sutter or that he should take Sutter's spot on the third while Sutter is still wearing a Pens sweater, but if we were to hypothetically ship Flats out for a diffrent piece that wasn't a 3C, we wouldn't miss a beat.

I like Arcobello, but that doesn't mean he's good. I like how he plays and I think his size is just unfortunate. If he was bigger, he could be a legitimately solid player in this league.

That being said, I'm under the impression that he can replace Sutter seamlessly. I think he tries hard enough that he's actually more solid around the boards than Flats is and he's decent enough skill wise that I'd take his tenacity over Sutter's pretty wrists. Not saying Arco's a huge upgrade over Sutter or that he should take Sutter's spot on the third while Sutter is still wearing a Pens sweater, but if we were to hypothetically ship Flats out for a diffrent piece that wasn't a 3C, we wouldn't miss a beat.
- Victoro311

I agree. It's not like sutter uses his frame along the boards and at least arco tries. I'd just like to see sutter be sent to the 4th line and try to give him the kick in the ass he needs

I agree. It's not like sutter uses his frame along the boards and at least arco tries. I'd just like to see sutter be sent to the 4th line and try to give him the kick in the ass he needs
- drummer829

Not apposed to that at all. Don't think you can change someone's game at Sutter's point in his career, but you may as well try to send a message somehow to see if he makes some sort of adjustment. But I just think its tough to justify playing Sutter on the fourth line during the playoffs if all you've got to replace him at 3C is Mark Arc or meh Nick Spaling.

Not apposed to that at all. Don't think you can change someone's game at Sutter's point in his career, but you may as well try to send a message somehow to see if he makes some sort of adjustment. But I just think its tough to justify playing Sutter on the fourth line during the playoffs if all you've got to replace him at 3C is Mark Arc or meh Nick Spaling.
- Victoro311

I'm still for getting fleischman from Florida. If the panthers could eat half of his cap, then I'd be ok with him coming here. Can play anywhere in the top 9

Not apposed to that at all. Don't think you can change someone's game at Sutter's point in his career, but you may as well try to send a message somehow to see if he makes some sort of adjustment. But I just think its tough to justify playing Sutter on the fourth line during the playoffs if all you've got to replace him at 3C is Mark Arc or meh Nick Spaling.
- Victoro311

Maybe Downie can throw his track suit in the shower.

Ok Ryan, so use advanced stats numbers for the argument about why we won easily then turn around throw the advanced stats away & use the eye test for your argument against our bottom six?

What does advanced stats say about the bottom six or are you trying not to use them so people don't berate you? Which is possible.


- Aussiepenguin

You don't want to see the bottom 6 advanced stats. Much like last season they are near the bottom of the league.

It hasn't looked like free time lately for the opponents when the 4th line has been out there.

- hardnosed

I must have missed all the times they scored or almost scored in the past three weeks...

You don't want to see the bottom 6 advanced stats. Much like last season they are near the bottom of the league.
- Ben37

Haha he's new. He missed all the blog posts over the summer about our bottom 6's metrics. Trust me Aussie, the advanced stats are 100% in line with his argument. Say what you want about RW. Love or hate him but he's consistent and doesn't flip flop.

I must have missed all the times they scored or almost scored in the past three weeks...
- Thorny

They're not out there to score...not their job.

Haha he's new. He missed all the blog posts over the summer about our bottom 6's metrics. Trust me Aussie, the advanced stats are 100% in line with his argument. Say what you want about RW. Love or hate him but he's consistent and doesn't flip flop.
- Victoro311

And sometimes like I did with Sutter, being proven wrong through on-ice play forces you to smartly flip flop. Like MAF.

And sometimes like I did with Sutter, being proven wrong through on-ice play forces you to smartly flip flop. Like MAF.
- Topshelf Mountain

Sutter was never a smart flip flop. He's always been the same player. He just went through a hot streak during last year's playoffs and the beginning of this season.

I think RW is wrong about MAF being nothing but an average goalie. I think a lot of things factored into Fleury's downfall and none of them had to do with his ability. Still appreciate that Wilson has a valid opinion on the subject and doesn't give MAF the fair weather treatment like a lot of Pens fans do.