Good because he is light years ahead of Berningpain.



ARE THE LEAFS REALLY GOING TO SIGN THIS CLEAR CUT BACKUP TO A LONG TERM DEAL.

It's (frank)ing Raycroft 2.0, and I only give him that because Raycroft had a better run.

Hairdoo is going to be finished within two years.



4 Cups
- Byfuglien Ate Me

seriously...what a disaster this franchise is top to bottom. JESUS

im a traditional poutine guy...no meats etc.
- clark_griswold

its supposed to be a cheap and easy meal. as soon as you start trying to make it fancy it becomes pointless. i agree with you.

seriously...what a disaster this franchise is top to bottom. JESUS
- clark_griswold

Why even give Bernier a contract?

Trade him back to LA with Clarkson for Richards and a bag of Cali's finest, just so Mike can adjust.

true, but he was a 36 goal 60 point 21 year old. Since, his high is 37g, 82 points. WE paid dearly for his best years. Considering offensive guns tail off around 28, and this kid spends no time in the gym extending his skills, is he worth more now or when we paid for him???? i say the former

he's a game breaker but we paid for his best years. he came as advertised and didn't disappoint. But he's not a guy you build around; he's not a leader. As the standings don't lie.
- clark_griswold

the standings say that they failed to give him any support. you dont need to build around phil, you just need to fill out the rest of your roster with decent players. take any single player in the league and swap him with kessel and the leafs are still out of the playoffs

bernier is an average starter. not a savior unfortunately.

Why even give Bernier a contract?

Trade him back to LA with Clarkson for Richards and a bag of Cali's finest, just so Mike can adjust.
- Byfuglien Ate Me

I'm saying after edmonton grabs mcdavid or eichel...they get bernier from us. Then they trade yak and eberle for D...

we'll probably be as good as Edmonton in 2021

bernier must go. he'll get a good return and is only preventing us (you would't know it) from getting worse

bernier is an average AHL starter. not an NHL tender unfortunately.
- daeth

Fixed that for ya death

the standings say that they failed to give him any support. you dont need to build around phil, you just need to fill out the rest of your roster with decent players. take any single player in the league and swap him with kessel and the leafs are still out of the playoffs
- daeth

I agree. Maybe a toews or crosby though. But that's neither here or there.

Point is i said he didn't disappoint, in fact he probably exceeded expectations. But he is what he is..not a franchise guy but an elite side piece. His best years are behind him (and a few more) so we won't get the epic return ppl think. Hearing he is very tradeable and lots of teams lining up doesn't mean the return is epic. Too many factors to consider; we don't get nearly what we paid for him. Still a great return though; and he must be moved along with everyone other than rielly and nylander unless we get unreal deals for them

yup... Leafs should definitely be locking him up as soon as possible for - you know - 6milion a year.

he'w awesome.

post game...

well you know.... aye jus need to make da save... to keep da guys in et.... you know dey make me play two nite in a row ... I'm a bit tired..... but my air looks good eh!
- BorjeFan4Ever

in the end i'd be surprised if the assets toronto got in return for kessel if they traded him ended up being anything more than depth players. the only positive would be they would be worse without him so their own picks would be better. you risk extending the losing culture even more with that though and that can have a negative impact on the development of all their players. it's not as win-win as people think imo.

Fixed that for ya death
- Byfuglien Ate Me

he's not that bad lol. he looks to be more of a niemi than he is a rinne though

in the end i'd be surprised if the assets toronto got in return for kessel if they traded him ended up being anything more than depth players. the only positive would be they would be worse without him so their own picks would be better. you risk extending the losing culture even more with that though and that can have a negative impact on the development of all their players. it's not as win-win as people think imo.
- daeth

we don't have a losing culture now? kessel isn't helping that as a leader...and kessel would get a few good future pieces. More valuable than keeping him here, which, CLEARLY isn't working

he's not that bad lol. he looks to be more of a niemi than he is a rinne though
- daeth

Well to be Fair...

Uncle Niemi WON A CUP.

Has Hairdoo even played a single post season game?

Let's lock that Franchise Goaltender up this Summer.

Niemi is UFA and anyone with any hockey IQ offers him a contract before that little poser hipster we have now

So...is it easier to tweak the whole roster, or blow it up and build from scratch? again, the guys you mention, are impossible to get unless drafted. They are never traded for a reason. And fantasy drafts differ greatly from real life. I meant you are just drafting to start a team, not a hockey pool. The team is built wrong. hence, when we try to play proper hockey under horacek we fail. All we can do is fire wagon opportunistic hockey. which works for a bit but ultimately fails (see the last 4 years). need to build FROM SCRATCH
- clark_griswold

I'm not sure you need to build from complete scratch. I would keep Kessel (I know that's not popular) and Reilly. The fact is if you trade Kessel you are going to trade him for picks + prospects and there's only 3 things can happen. You end up with a very good player (like Kessel or a Bergeron type player), you bust and get nothing or average players, or you hit the lottery and get multiple very good players. I don't see trading Kessel unless it's for a 1st or 2nd overall in this draft (pretty much like the Kevin Love deal in the Cavs made). You're going to need a player like Kessel to win anyway so might as well keep him when he has a pretty good contract. It doesn't make sense to trade him unless you know FOR SURE you are getting a good prospect like a 1st or 2nd overall.

we don't have a losing culture now? kessel isn't helping that as a leader...and kessel would get a few good future pieces. More valuable than keeping him here, which, CLEARLY isn't working
- clark_griswold

they def do have a losing culture now.

kessel will probably get the leafs a percy and biggs + a 2nd based on Toronto's draft history. i expect a good decade of filth if they completely gut the team now

Well to be Fair...

Uncle Niemi WON A CUP.

Has Hairdoo even played a single post season game?

Let's lock that Franchise Goaltender up this Summer.

Niemi is UFA and anyone with any hockey IQ offers him a contract before that little poser hipster we have now
- Byfuglien Ate Me

cam ward won a cup too

I'm not sure you need to build from complete scratch. I would keep Kessel (I know that's not popular) and Reilly. The fact is if you trade Kessel you are going to trade him for picks + prospects and there's only 3 things can happen. You end up with a very good player (like Kessel or a Bergeron type player), you bust and get nothing or average players, or you hit the lottery and get multiple very good players. I don't see trading Kessel unless it's for a 1st or 2nd overall in this draft (pretty much like the Kevin Love deal in the Cavs made). You're going to need a player like Kessel to win anyway so might as well keep him when he has a pretty good contract. It doesn't make sense to trade him unless you know FOR SURE you are getting a good prospect like a 1st or 2nd overall.
- KesselRules

it's hockey buzz so no one is right or wrong. but stop and think about this..does keeping kessel with the team he's had for 5 years help us? even if he finishes top 6 in scoring every year for the next 7 years? clearly not. or does moving him for future help more? we do have to build from scratch..why? cuz we have no franchise building blocks. Rielly I'm not moving unless it's ridiculous. But other than him and probably nylander, what are we clinging to? I'd take the unknown few future pieces than a 80 point phil kessel now that has gained us nothing more than 5 years of him, of which finishing in the bottom 10 4 of 5 years (2nd in 2010, 9th in 2011, 5th in 2012, 2013 was the shortened season; and 8th last year). This year looking like i was right with my summer prediction of the leafs being bottom 5. It's elementary. what good does a valuable asset to trade do you while diminishing on a bottom 5 team?????? we aren't going to magically turn this thing around and get him all the players to succeed. that's impossible.

they def do have a losing culture now.

kessel will probably get the leafs a percy and biggs + a 2nd based on Toronto's draft history. i expect a good decade of filth if they completely gut the team now
- daeth

what did we have the last decade + (11 years!!!) ...i'll take low expectations with a chance for franchise guys than disappointment over and over with a cap max team and no results but a decent draft pick in the 5-8 range.

cam ward won a cup too
- daeth

Cam Ward was a solid goaltender on an average to bad team for a loooong time.





The only thing Bernier ranks in the top 10 of at the moment is losses.


Can we please move on from the Ray/Tosk/Gus/Bern trend of grabbing a wanna be and get a solid starter in here?


Should have done the Lulongo deal

Cam Ward was a solid goaltender on an average to bad team for a loooong time.





The only thing Bernier ranks in the top 10 of at the moment is losses.


Can we please move on from the Ray/Tosk/Gus/Bern trend of grabbing a wanna be and get a solid starter in here?


Should have done the Lulongo deal
- Byfuglien Ate Me

tank and rebuild FROM SCRATCH for once. i know you are on board. Look at this mess

im just more patient than i used to be. im willing to let the leafs play it slow when it comes to big decisions until they have a very good hockey mind as gm. kessel will likely not drop in value much over the next 2-3 years and an asset then is just as good as an asset now if we're talking long term.

Cam Ward was a solid goaltender on an average to bad team for a loooong time.





The only thing Bernier ranks in the top 10 of at the moment is losses.


Can we please move on from the Ray/Tosk/Gus/Bern trend of grabbing a wanna be and get a solid starter in here?


Should have done the Lulongo deal
- Byfuglien Ate Me

dont give bernier anything more than average starter money but there's no harm in keeping him. he's not gonna keep them out of the basement if you fear he'll ruin a tank, that much seems clear.

it's hockey buzz so no one is right or wrong. but stop and think about this..does keeping kessel with the team he's had for 5 years help us? even if he finishes top 6 in scoring every year for the next 7 years? clearly not. or does moving him for future help more? we do have to build from scratch..why? cuz we have no franchise building blocks. Rielly I'm not moving unless it's ridiculous. But other than him and probably nylander, what are we clinging to? I'd take the unknown few future pieces than a 80 point phil kessel now that has gained us nothing more than 5 years of him, of which finishing in the bottom 10 4 of 5 years (2nd in 2010, 9th in 2011, 5th in 2012, 2013 was the shortened season; and 8th last year). This year looking like i was right with my summer prediction of the leafs being bottom 5. It's elementary. what good does a valuable asset to trade do you while diminishing on a bottom 5 team?????? we aren't going to magically turn this thing around and get him all the players to succeed. that's impossible.
- clark_griswold

If you trade him now or you trade him in 3-4 years you'll get the same return. What I'm saying is trade Lupul, JVR, and/or Kadri for the Bergeron type prospects. A lot can change in 4 years. In 4 years LA became a bum team to year to year cup contenders. If at that point you still suck trade him, but at this points it's too early. LA held on to Cammalleri for a while before they traded him. It's also to note the draft picks the got for him never turned out.

For those not behind a 100% tear down (in time, not dumping for no reason) and not building from scratch....forget the 11 year misery..forget the last 4-5 years of this core...we have been on a 3-16 skid with no major injuries. Note i said MAJOR. and that's with the following:

a coaching change (usually a catalyst for wins)

the 'response' game after firing RC which was hailed as a miracle..lost 6-2 at HOME

after losing 4 straight (on a very hard roadie i admit) come home and lose to CAR

Lose to NJD first game back after the all star break and a chance to regroup

Lose to Car and get outpost nearly 2-1

that's 2 losses to bottom 5 teams.

wonder why i advocate dumping and reloading even if it is 5 years + than keeping (with a cap team) guys like kessel, jvr, winnik, santo, polak etc. that ppl on here consistently say we should keep.

This team is so far away from using anything resembling a character role player like Polak, winnik or santo it AINT" FUNNY. burn it down, and draft. See you in 6 years.

im just more patient than i used to be. im willing to let the leafs play it slow when it comes to big decisions until they have a very good hockey mind as gm. kessel will likely not drop in value much over the next 2-3 years and an asset then is just as good as an asset now if we're talking long term.
- daeth

over the next 2-3 years are you worried if we move him we get worse? as in 27th overall to 30th? I'm talking patience defined with me being prepared for a 5-7 year rebuild. he's not helping that's 100% proven. but the future COULD