You have to build around someone...and he is young enough, big enough and cheap enough to still be that guy
- mr.sir

can't build around a winger IMO. Has to be a franchise D or Centre. Rielly is a great building block but is he a #1? doubtful but a great #2. I think Rielly is a beauty. We need to build this team right. Strong up the middle, and on D. Goalies speak for themselves..wingers are the last thing to worry about. And we need to focus on picks/prospects/players under 22 max. It's going to be brutal for a LONG time so want to make sure anyone we get is young enough to be there after 5+ years in their prime.

ellis is solid but we have too many like him. I see a package like (and don't shoot the messenger)

colin wilson, a 1st (which is low) and fiala. IF kessel goes there. That may be too much. Point is, if we got 2 1sts and a 2nd for phil now, they'd be lower picks and in no way equal sequin / Hamilton.
- clark_griswold

That pick turned out to be Seguin in the end, but when the deal was made, neither club thought the pick would be that high. Because of that, we will never get back the same value for him that we ultimately gave away to get him.

As for Ellis, if Gardiner is being dealt, I think he'd be an even better fit in that role, doubly so if Franson is gone, for the power play alone. In the new NHL, speedy, puck moving D are a valuable commodity, and a player like Ellis would drive possession in a way that people like Dubas desire.

Josh Harding is available.

That pick turned out to be Seguin in the end, but when the deal was made, neither club thought the pick would be that high. Because of that, we will never get back the same value for him that we ultimately gave away to get him.

As for Ellis, if Gardiner is being dealt, I think he'd be an even better fit in that role, doubly so if Franson is gone, for the power play alone. In the new NHL, speedy, puck moving D are a valuable commodity, and a player like Ellis would drive possession in a way that people like Dubas desire.
- The Shrike

i agree with everything you say here. Point is, no team unsure of their place in the league will make the same mistake TO did. Kessel will only go to a contender or team on the rise that is established. No way an Arizona or Carolina trades those picks for Kessel. Kessel was 21 when we got him..now he's 27

Toskela....................... it was Toskela-eske game.


Cue the beach balls... cue the photo shop....
- Beatle_john

spell his name right at least

[quote=cdjaakkola]

Even though i called a bottom 5 finish july 3rd...i didn't think it would get this bad...i thought over the year consistently..but man 3-16 in their last 19 with no real injury problems to the top guns (until dion for last 2) and losing back to back to 2 bottom 5 teams is just disgustingly gross. How can anyone not want to (STRATEGICALLY) dissect this roster completely after 4 collapses? Going to be so long before we turn the corner..it's really sad. I'm speechless to be honest and again i knew we'd be bad but this is sickening.

can't build around a winger IMO. Has to be a franchise D or Centre. Rielly is a great building block but is he a #1? doubtful but a great #2. I think Rielly is a beauty. We need to build this team right. Strong up the middle, and on D. Goalies speak for themselves..wingers are the last thing to worry about. And we need to focus on picks/prospects/players under 22 max. It's going to be brutal for a LONG time so want to make sure anyone we get is young enough to be there after 5+ years in their prime.
- clark_griswold

Why does that have to be just 1 Guy to build around?
Too bad there isn't a trade market for goalies.
Go Young!

Even though i called a bottom 5 finish july 3rd...i didn't think it would get this bad...i thought over the year consistently..but man 3-16 in their last 19 with no real injury problems to the top guns (until dion for last 2) and losing back to back to 2 bottom 5 teams is just disgustingly gross. How can anyone not want to (STRATEGICALLY) dissect this roster completely after 4 collapses? Going to be so long before we turn the corner..it's really sad. I'm speechless to be honest and again i knew we'd be bad but this is sickening.
- clark_griswold

MENTALLY FRAGILE
Lots of skill

MENTALLY FRAGILE
Lots of skill
- mr.sir

take all the skill you want..team is built wrong. Good pieces but no means a team. Can our guys help other teams? ya. But together, it's a joke. blow it to bits. Why am i jealous of edmonton and buffalo

spell his name right at least
- Lee Denault

Actually, I think the fact that I forgot it is better for everyone.

Why does that have to be just 1 Guy to build around?
Too bad there isn't a trade market for goalies.
Go Young!
- mr.sir

you build around guys like tavares, stamkos, etc. not jvr who is a great addition but come on, not a franchise guy. We have a lot of quantity pieces, but not much ...ney, no quality if you are starting a franchise from the ground up. Run a fantasy draft from scratch and see where kessel goes...let alone JVR.

can't build around a winger IMO. Has to be a franchise D or Centre. Rielly is a great building block but is he a #1? doubtful but a great #2. I think Rielly is a beauty. We need to build this team right. Strong up the middle, and on D. Goalies speak for themselves..wingers are the last thing to worry about. And we need to focus on picks/prospects/players under 22 max. It's going to be brutal for a LONG time so want to make sure anyone we get is young enough to be there after 5+ years in their prime.
- clark_griswold

Reilly is a number 1 if you have strong veteran leader defenseman (doesn't have to be a number 1 but a very good one who can lead) to guide him. Leafs don't have that.

That pick turned out to be Seguin in the end, but when the deal was made, neither club thought the pick would be that high. Because of that, we will never get back the same value for him that we ultimately gave away to get him.

As for Ellis, if Gardiner is being dealt, I think he'd be an even better fit in that role, doubly so if Franson is gone, for the power play alone. In the new NHL, speedy, puck moving D are a valuable commodity, and a player like Ellis would drive possession in a way that people like Dubas desire.
- The Shrike

kessel also wasnt a point a game forward when toronto got him.

- Zezel

- Lee Denault

kessel also wasnt a point a game forward when toronto got him.
- daeth

true, but he was a 36 goal 60 point 21 year old. Since, his high is 37g, 82 points. WE paid dearly for his best years. Considering offensive guns tail off around 28, and this kid spends no time in the gym extending his skills, is he worth more now or when we paid for him???? i say the former

he's a game breaker but we paid for his best years. he came as advertised and didn't disappoint. But he's not a guy you build around; he's not a leader. As the standings don't lie.

you build around guys like tavares, stamkos, etc. not jvr who is a great addition but come on, not a franchise guy. We have a lot of quantity pieces, but not much ...ney, no quality if you are starting a franchise from the ground up. Run a fantasy draft from scratch and see where kessel goes...let alone JVR.
- clark_griswold

Skill isn't the problem. Kessel is drafted on average 16th and JVR 61th in fantasy drafts. Let's be honest though you replace Kessel with Malkin, Ovechkin, Gaborik (even a 82 game Gaborik), Seguin, or any other goalscorer and the Leafs still are the same team. As much as Leafs fans like to gripe about JVR, Kessel and Kadri, it's not really their fault. Each cup contending team needs players like them. The problem is where are the Jonathan Toews', Patrice Bergeron's, David Krejci's, Logan Couture's, or players like that. You aren't going to find PPG who are two way players there's only one in my mind and that's Pavel Datsyuk and he's starting to be like the players above as he ages: A good two way player who scores 60-80 points.

That's the problem with the teams. We only have the same type of forwards in our top 6.

I was born in 1070, never seen the Leafs win, now I think I could actually go to my grave without ever seeing it.

What a pathetic franchise this is.

I'm (frank)ing done with this poop, really, enough is enough.
- sloppyseconds2

This is it

Skill isn't the problem. Kessel is drafted on average 16th and JVR 61th in fantasy drafts. Let's be honest though you replace Kessel with Malkin, Ovechkin, Gaborik (even a 82 game Gaborik), Seguin, or any other goalscorer and the Leafs still are the same team. As much as Leafs fans like to grip about JVR, Kessel and Kadri, it's not really their fault. Each cup contending team needs players like them. The problem is where are the Jonathan Toews, Patrice Bergeron, David Krejci, Logan Couture, or players like that. You aren't going to find PPG who are to way players there's only one in my mind and that's Pavel Datsyuk and he's starting to be like the players above as he ages: A good two way player who scores 60-80 points.

That's the problem with the teams. We only have the same type of forwards in our top 6.
- KesselRules

So...is it easier to tweak the whole roster, or blow it up and build from scratch? again, the guys you mention, are impossible to get unless drafted. They are never traded for a reason. And fantasy drafts differ greatly from real life. I meant you are just drafting to start a team, not a hockey pool. The team is built wrong. hence, when we try to play proper hockey under horacek we fail. All we can do is fire wagon opportunistic hockey. which works for a bit but ultimately fails (see the last 4 years). need to build FROM SCRATCH

- Zezel

im a traditional poutine guy...no meats etc.

Josh Harding is available.
- Beatle_john

Good because he is light years ahead of Berningpain.



ARE THE LEAFS REALLY GOING TO SIGN THIS CLEAN CUT BACKUP TO A LONG TERM DEAL.

It's (frank)ing Raycroft 2.0, and I only give him that because Raycroft had a better run.

Hairdoo is going to be finished within two years...



4 Cups