So, serious question for all of you:

I think that about 100%, possibly more, of the people who post on here regularly agreed that the type of hit on Letang was complete bull, and that players like Rinaldo should be thrown out of the league, and that he should have been suspended more than 8 games.

Let's say, theoretically, that the Penguins had Lapierre and he responds in kind with an equally/more blatamt cheapshot against Giroux or Voracek. Would you feel the same way about Lapierre?
- jmatchett383

Yes, 100%.

Agree. The window is probably closer to closing than opening, although any team with Crosby and Malkin will always have a shot. The goal should be to ice the best team possible right now.
- jmatchett383

Personally, I think the Penguins second Cup window is about to open for the following reasons:

(1) Crosby, Malkin, & Letang are all signed long-term on deals that will look better in the next ~3yrs than they do now due to the Cap rising & other star players signing similar deals. They won''t be the same players they were in their mid-20's, but they won't be hunks of garbage for at least the next 5 years or so either. You could add Fleury's deal into this category as well, to some extent.

(2) The Pens have finally been able to find the Cap space to add a few legit Top-6 W's in Perron and Hornquvist. Both are younger & coud potentially be around for the next 3-4yrs.

(3) The Pens will have a few players on RFA or ELC deals (ie, below market value) for the next 3-4yrs in Maatta, Bennett, & Despres. Could add in Pouliot, Harrington, & Dumoulin to that list as well in so far as ELC/RFA players who out perform their Cap Hits.

(4) Any new Cap space that occurs over the next few years can be used to add quality F depth. For the past few years the Penguins have had to shop in the discount bin for 3rd and 4th liners. Now, they should be able to afford the few extra $100K's to sign solid depth players like Downie, Comeau, & Greiss. Less $700K Craig Adams; more $1M Steve Downie.


Overall, I think the Penguins first window closed when both Crosby and Malkin signed their big deals, depleting the Pens depth, while other teams star players were still in the $6M/yr range (ie, Kane/Toewes, Kopitar, Perry/Getzlaf). Now, that dynamic is changing a bit w/ the Penguins being able to afford the depth that other elite teams have been able to in the past few years.

Final thought on this trade..

Imagine you're John Tavares. You lineup for the faceoff and see Marcel Goc across from you. Are you intimidated? No. Do you fear his physicality? No. Do you need to account for Goc in any way by looking over your shoulder, engage in some trash talk, etc..? No. JT is free to roam around and do his business. Not good from Pens perspective.

Goc was irrelevant in every way. Just a guy that can win a few faceoffs and apparently drive possession even though he didn't really do anything.

When Tavares lines up across Lapierre, there are entirely different thoughts going through his head. Not saying there is any intimidation going on. But, he needs to account for the guy.

That's the difference between Goc and Lapierre.
- 87_71_11_29

I think intimidation is overestimated in the NHL, these star players have been the best player on their team most of their lives and are used to having a target on them.

But... Like you said, in a long series, you can't tell me that it would be the same going into the corner for a loose puck 10 times a game against Goc, who might lift your stick or give you a good shoulder, as it would be Lapierre who might do that, or might cross check you in the kidney or put an elbow pad in your earhole.

I'd love Winnik. Cost has to be high though. I imagine every team is placing offers for him.

JR pulls that off somehow, hats off to him.
- 87_71_11_29

I really hope the Pens don't send any significant assets for Winnik. He'll be a UFA this offseason & can be brought in for a little over $1M/yr. Solid player, but not a game changer.

Agreed. Faceoffs are pretty much the same, and Goc has 8 points in 55 games. Lapierre has 9 points this season, so it's not like we are losing any prodcution
- znagle

I don't think you can use point production when judging Goc in Pittsburgh. 3 words... Glass, Adams, Sill. The only person happier than some of the people on this board is Goc himself.

Agreed. Faceoffs are pretty much the same, and Goc has 8 points in 55 games. Lapierre has 9 points this season, so it's not like we are losing any prodcution
- znagle

What's the conclusion of goc possesses the puck more and scores less ppg? Don't more skilled players usually score more especially if they possess the puck at a high rate?

Could this just be a salary cap move? I mean, I think Goc would be much better as a third line center, but he cant crack our center depth. Maybe he will have a chance of doing just that with the Blues. I wonder what the financial aspects of this trade were.
- toad268

I doubt Goc is going to be cracking the Blues' center depth either. They have Backes, Lehtera, and Stastny up the middle ahead of him.

Just bummed the pens traded a roster player instead of another pick in the deal. Oh well jagr should strip the pens of a 3rd maybe more

Personally, I think the Penguins second Cup window is about to open for the following reasons:

(1) Crosby, Malkin, & Letang are all signed long-term on deals that will look better in the next ~3yrs than they do now due to the Cap rising & other star players signing similar deals. They won''t be the same players they were in their mid-20's, but they won't be hunks of garbage for at least the next 5 years or so either. You could add Fleury's deal into this category as well, to some extent.

(2) The Pens have finally been able to find the Cap space to add a few legit Top-6 W's in Perron and Hornquvist. Both are younger & coud potentially be around for the next 3-4yrs.

(3) The Pens will have a few players on RFA or ELC deals (ie, below market value) for the next 3-4yrs in Maatta, Bennett, & Despres. Could add in Pouliot, Harrington, & Dumoulin to that list as well in so far as ELC/RFA players who out perform their Cap Hits.

(4) Any new Cap space that occurs over the next few years can be used to add quality F depth. For the past few years the Penguins have had to shop in the discount bin for 3rd and 4th liners. Now, they should be able to afford the few extra $100K's to sign solid depth players like Downie, Comeau, & Greiss. Less $700K Craig Adams; more $1M Steve Downie.


Overall, I think the Penguins first window closed when both Crosby and Malkin signed their big deals, depleting the Pens depth, while other teams star players were still in the $6M/yr range (ie, Kane/Toewes, Kopitar, Perry/Getzlaf). Now, that dynamic is changing a bit w/ the Penguins being able to afford the depth that other elite teams have been able to in the past few years.
- s0rcerer1984

Agreed, I don't think 87 71 58 29 will drop off much at all in 5 years. They are elite players that take care of their bodies and work as hard as anyone in the league, especially Letang. They are all locked up for the next 5 years at least, on good contracts that will only look better year after year that will allow us to spend money elsewhere.

Perron and Hornqvist are signed at least through next season and they need to be resigned, they are crucial and are exactly what we have been missing. 2 very talented wingers that not only have good offensive skills, but are physical and get to the net.

The younger guys on ELC deals will need contract extensions, most will be bridge deals using money from the growing cap and players coming off contracts here that won't be resigned. Can't forget Kasperi will be ready next year or so..

Overall, we are looking pretty solid for this year and the upcoming years as well. Now we need to build through the draft after next season (keep our picks, maybe move Sutter for a high pick due to Sundqvist possibly being ready)

I don't think you can use point production when judging Goc in Pittsburgh. 3 words... Glass, Adams, Sill. The only person happier than some of the people on this board is Goc himself.
- madmike71

He's played second line and third line here and has never looked good, no matter who he plays with. Playing with better players doesn't change the fact he loses the puck constantly and whiffs on open nets. And if I were Goc, I would rather play in Pittsburgh where we always have a chance to win and 2 of the best players in the world.

Just bummed the pens traded a roster player instead of another pick in the deal. Oh well jagr should strip the pens of a 3rd maybe more
- Just5

We only have a second rounder this year, Jagr will not be here anyway.

I doubt Goc is going to be cracking the Blues' center depth either. They have Backes, Lehtera, and Stastny up the middle ahead of him.
- RobShouts

Isnt Berglund a C as well?

There is still plenty of moves to be made if that's what they want. I think Winnik is a perfect bottom six player for this team. I actually wanted him signed over the summer

I doubt Goc is going to be cracking the Blues' center depth either. They have Backes, Lehtera, and Stastny up the middle ahead of him.
- RobShouts

Oshie-Goc-Terasenko is terrifying

What's the conclusion of goc possesses the puck more and scores less ppg? Don't more skilled players usually score more especially if they possess the puck at a high rate?
- dbell646

The conclusion is that Goc is a good fancy stat player and that doesn't translate to on ice production.

I hate this goof with every bone in my body. Grit is one thing, being a complete douche is another.

One of the cheapest players in the league, then likes to run and hide after starting poop with that stupid grin on his face. I hope Adams injures him in practice.
- canadianpenfan

I fully agree with this.

And "Goof" is a good term for him. In the Canadian prison system it is a term used for child abusers.

Hahaha.... How quickly their minds forget. I thought Letang was seriously injured and comes back and gets 5 assist in the first game. Good for Letang but I'm sure that played into the 8 games Rinaldo got. I'm not saying Rinaldo shouldn't have gotten at least 5, but 8? And the pens fans can say all the time he's a repeat offender, but also is a consequence of questionable calls. Look I know the hit against Letang was a penalty and worth a suspension of at least 5 games, but there were and still are a lot of times Rinsldo delivers clean, good hits, and still gets penalized because of the name on the back and the logo on the front.
- BernieKorch

So typical from you. Do you have a brain? He missed the rest of the game he got hit and missed the game where we lost to Chicago in a shootout. Yep, he was faking it. Rinaldo should have gotten 15. He is a turd.

Rinaldo and clean hits don't go together.

I doubt Goc is going to be cracking the Blues' center depth either. They have Backes, Lehtera, and Stastny up the middle ahead of him.
- RobShouts

Lehtera, Backes, Stastny, Lindstrom, Ott, Berglund and Fraser.. not sure where Goc fits in.

delete

Oshie-Goc-Terasenko is terrifying
- stowerkraut

Yeah for Oshie and Tera

He's played second line and third line here and has never looked good, no matter who he plays with. Playing with better players doesn't change the fact he loses the puck constantly and whiffs on open nets. And if I were Goc, I would rather play in Pittsburgh where we always have a chance to win and 2 of the best players in the world.
- znagle

Very rare appearance with anyone other than those turds on his line. I think you fixate on a couple of instances in his short career in Pittsburgh and can't get past them.

Blues are a legit contender every year too and they don't have Adams and Sill. We'll agree to disagree.

Very rare appearance with anyone other than those turds on his line. I think you fixate on a couple of instances in his short career in Pittsburgh and can't get past them.

Blues are a legit contender every year too and they don't have Adams and Sill. We'll agree to disagree.
- madmike71

Blues also dont have 2 players making 8.7 and 9.5. Easier to fill out the lines when you have more cash.

Very rare appearance with anyone other than those turds on his line. I think you fixate on a couple of instances in his short career in Pittsburgh and can't get past them.

Blues are a legit contender every year too and they don't have Adams and Sill. We'll agree to disagree.
- madmike71

Blues also dont have 2 players making 8.7 and 9.5. Easier to fill out the lines when you have more cash.

Blues also dont have 2 players making 8.7 and 9.5. Easier to fill out the lines when you have more cash.
- sammy87

My original point was that Goc HAS to be happy that he no longer will be required to tow around two of the worst players in the league. And.... You can't judge his point production because of that fact.

Very rare appearance with anyone other than those turds on his line. I think you fixate on a couple of instances in his short career in Pittsburgh and can't get past them.

Blues are a legit contender every year too and they don't have Adams and Sill. We'll agree to disagree.
- madmike71

Goc was almost alwasy unnoticeable when on the ice.. no matter who he played with.

Blues centers are Lehtera, Backes, Stastny, Lindstrom, Ott, Berglund and Fraser. Not sure where Goc even slots in, but he will be with more fourth liners.