No, Doumlin doesn't. But there is always next year & Dumoulin very well could help with the Cup in the next 2-4 years.

This past offseason Winnik signed a 1yr, $1.3M deal with the Leafs. He isn't a superstar or a game-changer. He is solid 3rd/4th line depth F. Trading a possible solid 5/6th Dman who you have team control over for 4 more season at a pretty low price for a guy like that is just poor asset management. If Winnik is that amazing, sign him this offseason & try to win the next 2-4 years with BOTH Dumoulin and Winnik.
- s0rcerer1984

Oh I completely understand your point, but I also see the other side where we have four good, young defensemen, Letang, and will likely lock up either Ehrhoff or Martin.

I want the Cup badly! I would make the trade.

Yeah that's what I'm saying. Dumoulin will need a new deal this of season but it will come cheap for 2-3 years. I think he can easily be a top 4 defenseman in the next year or two. Winnik could be the final piece we need. We get him, and it's almost a lock for the cup. But with everyone healthy Adams/Arcobello won't be that bad to have on the 4th line. I think if we were to trade Dumoulin then we would at least get another pick back
- znagle

See, thinking like that leads to results like moving a (i) 1st round pick, (ii) a former 1st round prospect, and (iii) two 2nd round picks for Brendan Morrow, Jerome Iginlia, and Douglas Murray.

Winning the Stanley Cup is never a lock and every team is a one or two bad games away from seeing its Playoff hopes die. I'm very much against moving any major assets (ie, 2nd rounder or higher) in exchange for any rental player, sans a trade escalator that moves a lower pick to a higher pick should the team make the Cup Finals (ie, like w/ Guerin). Crosby and Malkin are 27 & 28; not 37 & 38. There will be a "next year" for at least the next 4 or 5 seasons where the Penguins will be legit Cup contenders, so long as they don't throw away assets left & right.

If he's not traded toronto will resign him.
- Santo_44

Maybe, but I think he gets traded somewhere & hits UFA this offseason. Toronto seems to be heading towards a rebuild & Winnik, while not a superstar, could bring in a 3rd round pick or so. That's the direction I would move with him if I ran Toronto.

Advanced stat question...

I understand a the basics of what goes into Corsi and Fenwick. But, how much impact does each shot attempt have?

For like Goc and Lapierre, who are like 10 min a night guys (guessing)... Is what separates their ratings like 1 shot attempt per game? Half a shot per game? Three shots per game? I have no idea.

My thing is, are we declaring one player as definitively more effective than another player based on a couple shot attempts a week? If so, that just seems so marginal.

Advanced stat question...

I understand a the basics of what goes into Corsi and Fenwick. But, how much impact does each shot attempt have?

For like Goc and Lapierre, who are like 10 min a night guys (guessing)... Is what separates their ratings like 1 shot attempt per game? Half a shot per game? Three shots per game? I have no idea.

My thing is, are we declaring one player as definitively more effective than another player based on a couple shot attempts a week? If so, that just seems so marginal.
- rival22

Someone posted earlier that Goc was one of the worst penalty killers in the league for guys over 50 minutes. It might have been a tweet from someone else but pretty much surprised me. I thought that was his strength!

Found this interesting:

@404ResponseCode - anyone worried about losing Goc for the PK shouldn't be - worst CA60 on the team 4v5 at 113.58. 124 out of 134 Fs >50 mins.
- cap1681

Here it is.

Maybe, but I think he gets traded somewhere & hits UFA this offseason. Toronto seems to be heading towards a rebuild & Winnik, while not a superstar, could bring in a 3rd round pick or so. That's the direction I would move with him if I ran Toronto.
- s0rcerer1984

Yes but you also need players like him to surround the young players.

See, thinking like that leads to results like moving a (i) 1st round pick, (ii) a former 1st round prospect, and (iii) two 2nd round picks for Brendan Morrow, Jerome Iginlia, and Douglas Murray.

Winning the Stanley Cup is never a lock and every team is a one or two bad games away from seeing its Playoff hopes die. I'm very much against moving any major assets (ie, 2nd rounder or higher) in exchange for any rental player, sans a trade escalator that moves a lower pick to a higher pick should the team make the Cup Finals (ie, like w/ Guerin). Crosby and Malkin are 27 & 28; not 37 & 38. There will be a "next year" for at least the next 4 or 5 seasons where the Penguins will be legit Cup contenders, so long as they don't throw away assets left & right.
- s0rcerer1984

This is what we have when healthy

Perron-Sid-Horn
Kunitz-Geno-Comeau
Bennett-Sutter-Downie
Spaling-Lapierre-Arcobello/Adams

This is what we have with Winnik

Perron-Sid-Horn
Kunitz-Geno-Comeau
Bennett-Sutter-Winnik
Spaling-Lapierre-Downie

I would be completely confident with any line that is on the ice. That is an insanely deep team right there. If the price is right on Winnik, I'd jump on it. If we are trading Dumoulin for him, we would need a pick back. I would look at giving up one of the AHL prospects (Dea, Wilson etc) and a later pick in the draft

Spaling and dumlion to Nj for jagr

Spaling and dumlion to Nj for jagr
- Palmer117

Palmer sighting, no way in hell. We don't need another top 6

Oh I completely understand your point, but I also see the other side where we have four good, young defensemen, Letang, and will likely lock up either Ehrhoff or Martin.

I want the Cup badly! I would make the trade.
- Topshelf Mountain

As someone who has seen their teams win 2 Superbowls and 3 Stanley Cup during their lifetime as well as multiple playoff flame outs, you just never know. The 1992-1993 Penguins teams was, by far, the best of the early 90's Lemieux/Francis/Jagr teams. They were dominant. But they lost in the 2nd round of the Playoffs to the Isles.

Best way to build a Cup winner is to set the team up for multiple runs at the Cup over a period of years, not just one big run one year. Just have to hope that, sooner or later, luck comes down on your side one of those years.

Yes but you also need players like him to surround the young players.
- Santo_44

Then sign some other guy like him this offseason. The guy isn't irreplaceable by any means. Solid player, but lets not kid ourselves; He's a 3rd liner at best.

Daniel Winnik is only as valuable as he is to some team making a push for the Cup this season. Unless the Leafs think they can win the Cup this season, take the asset & replace him with a comparable player via UFA for around the same price.

As someone who has seen their teams win 2 Superbowls and 3 Stanley Cup during their lifetime as well as multiple playoff flame outs, you just never know. The 1992-1993 Penguins teams was, by far, the best of the early 90's Lemieux/Francis/Jagr teams. They were dominant. But they lost in the 2nd round of the Playoffs to the Isles.

Best way to build a Cup winner is to set the team up for multiple runs at the Cup over a period of years, not just one big run one year. Just have to hope that, sooner or later, luck comes down on your side one of those years.
- s0rcerer1984

the win now idea is foolish. again I will point to the model franchise, IMO, detroit. they continue to make the playoffs lmost every year and are always a threat. they have down periods (where they are still competitive) and up periods (deep runs) but they dont give up lots of futures unless its a great deal. (usually) pens have done that too much recently, though the perron deal and the iginla deal (damn you DB) were good deals. murray, goc, morrow to a certain extent.... they hurt the team. your dead on... keep the team competitive year after year and let the other factors, i.e. luck, injuries, players getting hot at the right time, chemistry, leadership, etc. come together once in a while to lead to a cup

This is what we have when healthy

Perron-Sid-Horn
Kunitz-Geno-Comeau
Bennett-Sutter-Downie
Spaling-Lapierre-Arcobello/Adams

This is what we have with Winnik

Perron-Sid-Horn
Kunitz-Geno-Comeau
Bennett-Sutter-Winnik
Spaling-Lapierre-Downie

I would be completely confident with any line that is on the ice. That is an insanely deep team right there. If the price is right on Winnik, I'd jump on it. If we are trading Dumoulin for him, we would need a pick back. I would look at giving up one of the AHL prospects (Dea, Wilson etc) and a later pick in the draft
- znagle

I agree the Pens should be interested, but if Toronto wants Dumoulin (or any significant prospect), I'd pass. I'd define significant prospects as any of the following players: Kapanen, Pouliot, Harrington, Dumoulin, Sundquvist, Jarry, or Murray. Maybe even Blueger. Essentially, anyone who could significantly contribute to the Pens on the NHL level during the next 2-5 years on cheap, ELC/RFA deals.

Daniel Winnik is solid; He isn't the second coming of Ron Francis or Kevin Stevens.

Here it is.
- Topshelf Mountain

First of all that is only one stat. Lord knows, RW has shown numerous stats that show he is above average. Now granted I do not follow all this fancy stat stuff and know what all of them means, but isn't that stat relative to shots against or something of that nature? Which I'm not saying giving up tons of shots on the PK is good, but it isn't the be all end all, certainly there are low percentage shots and high percentage shots. Is that taken into consideration? Again just asking, because I certainly do not know.

Nothing on the pieces moving, but here is another link I found. I'm guessing maybe a pick, possibly Dumoulin if any prospects are going out. If it's Dumoulin I would like to see another pick come back in the deal

http://www.tsn.ca/trade-t...-winnik-just-yet-1.193707
- znagle

They could have signed him as a FA the past offseason. For them to trade assets now doesn't make sense to me. Plus he will be a FA after this season too.

@DavidMTodd: Phil Bourque says Max LaPierre’s bags have arrived and expects him in #Penguins lineup tonight vs. #Capitals

They could have signed him as a FA the past offseason. For them to trade assets now doesn't make sense to me. Plus he will be a FA after this season too.
- acdc1206

Why not? He'd be a tremendous upgrade to the 3rd or 4th line. It would only benefit him to get the exposure of the playoffs since he will be a UFA as you stated. Toronto could re-sign him again or someone else but he may not be expensive to acquire. Just because no he's a UFA doesn't mean we should pass.

As someone who has seen their teams win 2 Superbowls and 3 Stanley Cup during their lifetime as well as multiple playoff flame outs, you just never know. The 1992-1993 Penguins teams was, by far, the best of the early 90's Lemieux/Francis/Jagr teams. They were dominant. But they lost in the 2nd round of the Playoffs to the Isles.

Best way to build a Cup winner is to set the team up for multiple runs at the Cup over a period of years, not just one big run one year. Just have to hope that, sooner or later, luck comes down on your side one of those years.
- s0rcerer1984

I remember all five plus David (frank)ing Volek. I want to be watching with severe interest in June this year. If you can add a guy who's good on the bottom six, with an already stacked (when healthy) team, than I do it. A couple years ago was way overboard, this year, having good players in the press box eating pretzels that can step in when an injury occurs would be great. It also would likely knock out Sill and Adams when the lineup is healthy.

And it doesn't have to be Dumoulin and I certainly don't think Pouliot or the two good forwards that'll likely be with the club next year. Maybe a level down straight up for him. The team has rebuilt 40% of its lineup and looks to be a strong contender. That one extra player could be the difference, he also might not be, but I'm the type that would go for it.

First of all that is only one stat. Lord knows, RW has shown numerous stats that show he is above average. Now granted I do not follow all this fancy stat stuff and know what all of them means, but isn't that stat relative to shots against or something of that nature? Which I'm not saying giving up tons of shots on the PK is good, but it isn't the be all end all, certainly there are low percentage shots and high percentage shots. Is that taken into consideration? Again just asking, because I certainly do not know.
- PensFan1103

I'm with you on not knowing, and I wasn't trying to answer your question. I found the stat interesting considering everyone says he's a good PK guy and thought it had a glancing relevance to what you were asking.

I read yesterday that the NHL used some kind of chip during the all star weekend. When that is used permanently and becomes public I think every answer to the random stats presented will be cleared up.

The thing I see with this trade - just watch the Pens goals from yesterday. After all the goals except the EN they were beaten, checked & pushed. That is the physical play that the Pens don't have, maybe with Lapierre he may give a little of that. That & having a little influence on the game in general being a bigger body.

http://sports.yahoo.com/b...sby-s-name-004857883.html

I'm with you on not knowing, and I wasn't trying to answer your question. I found the stat interesting considering everyone says he's a good PK guy and thought it had a glancing relevance to what you were asking.

I read yesterday that the NHL used some kind of chip during the all star weekend. When that is used permanently and becomes public I think every answer to the random stats presented will be cleared up.
- Topshelf Mountain

Gotcha, yeah I wasn't the one who asked the original question, I guess mine was just a similar follow up. It just seems to me that Goc plays well on the PK, so someone hand picking one stat to say Goc sucks at the PK doesn't do anything to sway my opinion of that.

The thing I see with this trade - just watch the Pens goals from yesterday. After all the goals except the EN they were beaten, checked & pushed. That is the physical play that the Pens don't have, maybe with Lapierre he may give a little of that. That & having a little influence on the game in general being a bigger body.
- Aussiepenguin

But that is all superficial crap that is done by frustrated players. Do we really need that type of "toughness" and I put it in quotes, because how tough is someone who hits someone when they aren't looking, aren't expecting it, or too busy actually doing something useful like scoring? I thought that besides that crap, the Pens handled Winnipeg's size and physicality quite well last night.

this is a lil off subject but.....have any of you tried this dating site? blackfarmersmeet.com im not black and im not a farmer but it seems interesting enough to give it a go.

feedback please