So sounds like Dion was offered to LA. Good to know... Tank is on for sure. Dion shut down for a bit. Hasn't missed any real time since 2010.. That D looks ugly with 2 rookies
- senstroll

No so sure they will do as bad as people think. Speaking of damage Col D, Erik Johnson is out 3-8 weeks. Colorado will be desperate to add a D. The time is would of been now to move Phaneuf for ROR. But that idiot had to hurt his hand fighting Stall out of all people.

Montreal is offering up Eller, Emelin and a prospect.

these trades would never happen. Isles wouldn't take bozak.

Franson deal would be most likely but it would be one or the other. and most likely the late 1st only

Arizona is rebuilding. why would they move 2 of their best young players, when they are a terrible team for a 26 year old JVR? They know they are crap and are going to rebuild the right way. SOmething toronto could learn from
- clark_griswold

Franson gets more than a late 1st


JVR is only 25


only thing we want from the Yotes is Hanzal

So sounds like Dion was offered to LA. Good to know... Tank is on for sure. Dion shut down for a bit. Hasn't missed any real time since 2010.. That D looks ugly with 2 rookies
- senstroll

Just have to keep riding Bernier and the Leafs are in for a good pick.

Phaneuf is no captain, but without him we will see a softie per period from Mandela.

So, another night of arm chair GM's fixing the Leafs.

What a waste of time.

I suggest either cheering the (frank) up, or taking some warfarin. Find a new hobby for the next few months, because it likely isn't getting better and making a knee-jerk trade just to say that you made a trade is the worst move right now (especially given who the captain of the cruise ship is)...

We're not getting better this year, so grab a beer and be patient.
- lumlums

when have i said anything other than patience? i said jvr and franson are only guys that could be moved now. Santo/winnik too but that's minor. Everything else would be down the road. No rush. I don't want to get better this year..i want to bottom out and gut it all.

im looking for a full rebuild - i'd say that's a lot more 'patient' than those that want to add or retool. Sorry if you misread my posts

See the last 11 years. all you are doing is providing false hope my friend. I've said it before - the edmonton model may not work. But this is 100% not working. The players you mentioned aren't a core. A core is a 1st and hopefully 2nd line centre, 2-3 solid D and a great goalie. You mentioned no 1 1st liner other than JVR and Rielly in the future.

Again the rebuild has never happened in Toronto...and look at philly, almost as inconsistent as the leafs. i think if any teams have been treading water, it's philly and Toronto. Both teams have made a lot of mistakes out of not being patient.
- clark_griswold

The key is being smart and making decision that make sense five years from now, not just immediately.

"OMG we need a goalie RIGHT NOW!" - Trades Rask for Raycroft
"OMG WE STILL NEED A GOALIE RIGHT NOW!!!!" - Trades first rounder + for Toskala
"We need a solid winger!" - Trade Steen for Stempniak
"HOLY poop GUYS, WE REALLY NEED MORE LEADERSHIP!!!" - Sign Kelly Clarkson...


The problem has been that the management is trying to satisfy the fans by giving them that push, and yet nobody is smart enough to take a step back and look at the big picture. What we need is a team to compete regularly for the cup, not a team who might just sneak into the playoffs. That's done by retaining your picks and developing those players at their pace. I truly believe that we have some of the better lower round picks (3-7) in the league (Stralman, Gunnar, Kulemin, Komarov in the NHL, Bibeau, Loov, Brown, Nilsson, Valiev etc likely on their way in a few years)... we just need a shot of patience to go with it...

So, another night of arm chair GM's fixing the Leafs.

What a waste of time.
- sloppyseconds2

Pretty much

See the last 11 years. all you are doing is providing false hope my friend. I've said it before - the edmonton model may not work. But this is 100% not working. The players you mentioned aren't a core. A core is a 1st and hopefully 2nd line centre, 2-3 solid D and a great goalie. You mentioned no 1 1st liner other than JVR and Rielly in the future.

Again the rebuild has never happened in Toronto...and look at philly, almost as inconsistent as the leafs. i think if any teams have been treading water, it's philly and Toronto. Both teams have made a lot of mistakes out of not being patient.
- clark_griswold

Our teams are in identical situations: bad roster construction. Just not the right group of players.

I disagree in your assesment. I don't look at teams by lines because they change constantly. I see Kadri, JVR, Bozak, and Lupul as a great start to a teams top six. Throw Nylander in there (when he's ready) and it looks even better.

Defense is no different. Reilly and Gardiner are a great start to a top 4. Hopefully a player like Percy pans out as well.

I think theres lots of potential in TO already. Your first half of the season was damn impressive. Like I said, I think a culture change is needed more than anything.

when have i said anything other than patience? i said jvr and franson are only guys that could be moved now. Santo/winnik too but that's minor. Everything else would be down the road. No rush.

im looking for a full rebuild - i'd say that's a lot more 'patient' than those that want to add or retool. Sorry if you misread my posts
- clark_griswold

Franson yes, JvR no. He still has some good years ahead of him and can potentially be part of a good core when in his late 20s. Keep him UNLESS you get a phenomenal offer, but don't go soliciting offers as you will never get the return that you want...

The key is being smart and making decision that make sense five years from now, not just immediately.

"OMG we need a goalie RIGHT NOW!" - Trades Rask for Raycroft
"OMG WE STILL NEED A GOALIE RIGHT NOW!!!!" - Trades first rounder + for Toskala
"We need a solid winger!" - Trade Steen for Stempniak
"HOLY poop GUYS, WE REALLY NEED MORE LEADERSHIP!!!" - Sign Kelly Clarkson...


The problem has been that the management is trying to satisfy the fans by giving them that push, and yet nobody is smart enough to take a step back and look at the big picture. What we need is a team to compete regularly for the cup, not a team who might just sneak into the playoffs. That's done by retaining your picks and developing those players at their pace. I truly believe that we have some of the better lower round picks (3-7) in the league (Stralman, Gunnar, Kulemin, Komarov in the NHL, Bibeau, Loov, Brown, Nilsson, Valiev etc likely on their way in a few years)... we just need a shot of patience to go with it...
- lumlums

again i am stressing patience. TO bottom out. I will disagree strongly on our prospects. It's a weak group. By weak i mean impact players not just bit. Especially weak for a team that has missed the playoffs 10 of 11 years.

So, another night of arm chair GM's fixing the Leafs.

What a waste of time.
- sloppyseconds2

Hi

Franson yes, JvR no. He still has some good years ahead of him and can potentially be part of a good core when in his late 20s. Keep him UNLESS you get a phenomenal offer, but don't go soliciting offers as you will never get the return that you want...
- lumlums

he'll be in his late 20s next year (27) and we won't be good for years. Again im coming from a blow up stance mind you. He can go now as his salary is easy to fit in. Imagine what the NYI would give up for JVR? They'd have him for years. he is useless to a blow up team.

everyone?
- the_eye

i think it might of been you specifically

when have i said anything other than patience? i said jvr and franson are only guys that could be moved now. Santo/winnik too but that's minor. Everything else would be down the road. No rush. I don't want to get better this year..i want to bottom out and gut it all.

im looking for a full rebuild - i'd say that's a lot more 'patient' than those that want to add or retool. Sorry if you misread my posts
- clark_griswold

How are they minor? I bet you there is a good return to come from them, way to easy to fit them in the line up and under the cap..I dont think a 2nd for either is unreasonable, maybe winnik gets ya a third...free draft picks

Hi
- lumlums

Hello!

So, another night of arm chair GM's fixing the Leafs.

What a waste of time.
- sloppyseconds2

Evening Mike, this team is going nowhere without a Belfour/CuJo/Potvin type goaltender IMO.

again i am stressing patience. TO bottom out. I will disagree strongly on our prospects. It's a weak group. By weak i mean impact players not just bit. Especially weak for a team that has missed the playoffs 10 of 11 years.
- clark_griswold

I think that we have a group of prospects that are good relative to their draft position. The problem has been selecting guys like Biggs and Gauthier with the first round picks, not selecting guys like Brown with the sixth. Good teams get good players in the later rounds as well as in the early ones; Edmonton is a prime example of a team with individual talent but very little going on in terms of depth due to poor late-round drafting.

Our teams are in identical situations: bad roster construction. Just not the right group of players.

I disagree in your assesment. I don't look at teams by lines because they change constantly. I see Kadri, JVR, Bozak, and Lupul as a great start to a teams top six. Throw Nylander in there (when he's ready) and it looks even better.

Defense is no different. Reilly and Gardiner are a great start to a top 4. Hopefully a player like Percy pans out as well.

I think theres lots of potential in TO already. Your first half of the season was damn impressive. Like I said, I think a culture change is needed more than anything.
- mochoson

we'll just agree to disagree totally. ANd that's ok, that's the beauty of these boards.

Hello!
- sloppyseconds2

How're you doing this fine winters eve?

Franson yes, JvR no. He still has some good years ahead of him and can potentially be part of a good core when in his late 20s. Keep him UNLESS you get a phenomenal offer, but don't go soliciting offers as you will never get the return that you want...
- lumlums

Depends on the return

I think that we have a group of prospects that are good relative to their draft position. The problem has been selecting guys like Biggs and Gauthier with the first round picks, not selecting guys like Brown with the sixth. Good teams get good players in the later rounds as well as in the early ones; Edmonton is a prime example of a team with individual talent but very little going on in terms of depth due to poor late-round drafting.
- lumlums

i know it sounds funny, but give them a year or 2. Drasitil, nurse, a trade of one of the young guys (eberle or hall) and add a eichel or mcdavid....alot further ahead than us that's for damn sure.

we'll just agree to disagree totally. ANd that's ok, that's the beauty of these boards.
- clark_griswold

No no its mandatory when you disagree on HB to call the other poster some (frank)ing silly insult

How are they minor? I bet you there is a good return to come from them, way to easy to fit them in the line up and under the cap..I dont think a 2nd for either is unreasonable, maybe winnik gets ya a third...free draft picks
- PinkSock

i totally agree with you those are the returns you get. But they aren't the big chips we have to play. THose are easy deals to make is my point. You don't have to think about them. BUt im not rushing to deal kessel or dion.

Franson gets more than a late 1st


JVR is only 25


only thing we want from the Yotes is Hanzal
- PinkSock

Yes. This is the type of guy we need to bring in, guys who Care.

He is a terrible GM and i fully blame bell/rogers for even giving him the full time position. Burke did a better job despite the kessel/seguin trade which was a big mistake on his part. But i will throw my 2 cents in regarding seguin. Boston traded seguin for louie eriksson basically. JVR was on fire with kessel at the time, why didnt the leafs try and trade JVR for Seguin? We get a center right there in the process and JVR is younger and better than Eriksson
- DougGilmour_93

I think Burke gets a pass too easily. He made a mess. Nonis lit the match but Burke filled the dumpster.

How Nonis is still employed by that organization is mind boggling. The things he has said in public are frightening.