Aside from his physical play, his skating, his passing, his shooting, his positioning, and ability to play top minutes every night...not too much.
- jmatchett383

There ya go Bartley^^ he beat me to it. But yeah that.

I like your D for what it's worth. Of the three I rank Staal the lowest.
- powerhouse

Thanks. It's a tough call. I think Staal gets a bad rep because he had 2 years of serious injuries where his play plummeted and his reputation was tarnished a bit and he hasn;t been able to restore it. People forget that before McD emerged, Staal was our #1 guy and an allstar. His injuries are the only reason McD got the opportunity to run away with the #1 title. And even though Staal technically plays on the 2nd pairing, he's more than capable of playing on a 1st pairing...it's just that McD is ahead of him on the LHD depth chart because McD is that good.

I have never had an issue being wrong and admitting it, tell me what to look for and I will gladly do it. He just doesn't jump off the TV as a special player.
- nbartley9

I did.

- Physical play
- Positioning
- Decision Making
- Shooting
- Passing
- Hockey Sense
- Skating

He has all of them, and they all range from "very good" (physical play shooting) to elite (decision making, hockey sense).

His skating, positioning, ability to read the play and intercept passes, his angles, his instincts, his consistency, and his reliability.
- RAGSareDANGERus

Ok fair enough, however Tanger is no doubt about it a better skater; 10 fold. I will enjoy trying to take an extra look at McD to come to a conclusion about his other tangibles that make him in your eyes elite.

Thanks. It's a tough call. I think Staal gets a bad rep because he had 2 years of serious injuries where his play plummeted and his reputation was tarnished a bit and he hasn;t been able to restore it. People forget that before McD emerged, Staal was our #1 guy and an allstar. His injuries are the only reason McD got the opportunity to run away with the #1 title. And even though Staal technically plays on the 2nd pairing, he's more than capable of playing on a 1st pairing...it's just that McD is ahead of him on the LHD depth chart because McD is that good.
- RAGSareDANGERus

I think Staal just does not have much to offer offensively. But all three box out well, have good positioning and are quite good. I watch a lot of divisional games and the Rangers D plays well with a lead. The Isles have their number but they have had everybody's lately except the Habs.

Ok fair enough, however Tanger is no doubt about it a better skater; 10 fold. I will enjoy trying to take an extra look at McD to come to a conclusion about his other tangibles that make him in your eyes elite.
- nbartley9

Letang is a very good defenseman. His skating and offense are better than McDonagh, but McDonagh more than makes up that difference in the other aspects of his game.

There ya go Bartley^^ he beat me to it. But yeah that.
- j.boyd919

Are you going to honestly say that he skates better than Tanger? The other attributes I will have to watch for, but in no way shape or form does he skate better than Letang. Tanger is one of the most enjoyable players in the NHL to watch skate; he is other worldly.

Ok fair enough, however Tanger is no doubt about it a better skater; 10 fold. I will enjoy trying to take an extra look at McD to come to a conclusion about his other tangibles that make him in your eyes elite.
- nbartley9

Bartley their is a difference between talent and playing smart as a team. I will admit Letang looks much better this year, he and the defense have a lot to learn on playing great defensive hockey. I mean as a team and not individual brilliance.

Letang is a very good defenseman. His skating and offense are better than McDonagh, but McDonagh more than makes up that difference in the other aspects of his game.
- jmatchett383

Like I said in a previous post, did anyone else hear the NBC broadcast refer to McDonagh getting burnt and bailed out by Moore??

I cant say positioning and taking angles are better attributes than Skating and Offensive awareness, enough so that it would put him above Letang as an all around player, I just cant agree with that.

Bartley their is a difference between talent and playing smart as a team. I will admit Letang looks much better this year, he and the defense have a lot to learn on playing great defensive hockey. I mean as a team and not individual brilliance.
- powerhouse

I agree totally, that's why when it comes down to individual skill Letang is the better/more talented player.

Are you going to honestly say that he skates better than Tanger? The other attributes I will have to watch for, but in no way shape or form does he skate better than Letang. Tanger is one of the most enjoyable players in the NHL to watch skate; he is other worldly.
- nbartley9

Skating is McDonagh's best asset actually. Not sure if I'd say he's a better skater than Letang, but McDonagh is definitely an elite skater and one of the best in the league at it.

Here's an example of him using his skating (for reference, on the Gallagher play, McDonagh was behind the Canadiens' net and Gallgher was on a breakaway starting at his own blue line):

Are you going to honestly say that he skates better than Tanger? The other attributes I will have to watch for, but in no way shape or form does he skate better than Letang. Tanger is one of the most enjoyable players in the NHL to watch skate; he is other worldly.
- nbartley9

No, I didn't say he is a better skater than Letang. But his skating is well above average, yeah McDonagh may not be a flashy player like Letang, Subban or Karlsson... but when it comes to complete defensemen, McDonagh absolutely has to be mentioned in that group.

Letang is much better than Mcdonagh. Easily. Now why are we talking about this?

I for one appreciate the time and effort the Ryan puts into these blogs and that he gives us something to discuss on an almost daily basis. The level of good hockey talk in here is IMHO at close to an all time high.

I do wish he would frame his arguments for advance stats in a less condescending manner to those of us that have not committed our immortal souls to worship at the alter of advanced stats, and maybe even admit that bias for or against a player is bias, whether the argument is supported by advanced stats or not. Its one thing to see the world from different POV, but at least for me, its another to deliver your argument in a tone that implies anyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot. I believe advanced stats, regular stats, and what you actually see should all be used to evaluate a player.

All I can say about Marcel Goc is that I watched him closely when he got elevated to 3rd line duty and even some PP time when the Pens were wracked with injuries, and he looked completely lost with the puck. I know that's the heavily discounted eye test at play, but I saw nothing in terms of any actual production to lead me to believe he's any more than what he has been most of his career, a 4th line player. Rather than getting all wound up in Goc vs Sutter, I'd rather see the Penguins ditch Sill and Adams and have a balanced lineup. That's a pragmatic goal that should be something that GMJR is working on, and one that will be helped by the eventual return of Comeau and Hornquivst. The team reall misses both those guys IMHO...they bring a level of grit and jam (eye test! eye test!) that is lacking at the moment.

Who knows, maybe they have good corsi scores too!

If Tanger hadnt been injured so much, he would have a Norris by now. He was nominated one year. How many years has McD been nominated for it?

We all know that only the best DEFENSEmen win the Norris

Wow if farnham replaces goc tonight it really defeats the purpose of this blog....

Very interesting. ..

Like I said in a previous post, did anyone else hear the NBC broadcast refer to McDonagh getting burnt and bailed out by Moore??

I cant say positioning and taking angles are better attributes than Skating and Offensive awareness, enough so that it would put him above Letang as an all around player, I just cant agree with that.
- nbartley9

Oh my God, a guy got beat by aggressively challenging 2 of the best players in the game over a one-game stretch? Must be a bum!

I didn't say any one attribute was better or worse. I said that, taking the 2 players' overall abilities, McDonagh's advantages in overall areas outweigh the areas where Letang (STOP CALLING HIM "TANGER" IT SOUNDS LIKE A 5-YEAR-OLD'S NAME) has the advanatge. Letang is a better skating and offensively, but McDonagh is better in every other way.

If Tanger hadnt been injured so much, he would have a Norris by now. He was nominated one year. How many years has McD been nominated for it?

We all know that only the best DEFENSEmen win the Norris
- thickman1178

He finished 8 in the voting for it last year I think. It's not a nomination but it's not bad.

Oh my God, a guy got beat by aggressively challenging 2 of the best players in the game over a one-game stretch? Must be a bum!

I didn't say any one attribute was better or worse. I said that, taking the 2 players' overall abilities, McDonagh's advantages in overall areas outweigh the areas where Letang (STOP CALLING HIM "TANGER" IT SOUNDS LIKE A 5-YEAR-OLD'S NAME) has the advanatge. Letang is a better skating and offensively, but McDonagh is better in every other way.
- jmatchett383

He finished 8 in the voting for it last year I think. It's not a nomination but it's not bad.
- RAGSareDANGERus

Shea Weber also finished 2nd despite being, by far, the best defensmean in the NHL last year. So, yeah.

- znagle

Please tell me in what ways, besides skating and offensive ability, Letang is better than McDonagh.

Oh my God, a guy got beat by aggressively challenging 2 of the best players in the game over a one-game stretch? Must be a bum!

I didn't say any one attribute was better or worse. I said that, taking the 2 players' overall abilities, McDonagh's advantages in overall areas outweigh the areas where Letang (STOP CALLING HIM "TANGER" IT SOUNDS LIKE A 5-YEAR-OLD'S NAME) has the advanatge. Letang is a better skating and offensively, but McDonagh is better in every other way.
- jmatchett383

The reason Mcdonagh played that so aggressively was because he knew Moore would bail him out. It's kind of a no risk play.

Skating is McDonagh's best asset actually. Not sure if I'd say he's a better skater than Letang, but McDonagh is definitely an elite skater and one of the best in the league at it.

Here's an example of him using his skating (for reference, on the Gallagher play, McDonagh was behind the Canadiens' net and Gallgher was on a breakaway starting at his own blue line):


- RAGSareDANGERus

That Kessel chase is insanely impressive, im going to watch him closely the next few games. Also like I said I have no problem admitting being wrong, but it is going to take quite a lot for me to put him above Tanger; but stranger things have happened.

Would anyone take a shot on Kassian? Has the size we lack. He's young maybe a change of scenery could help him.

The reason Mcdonagh played that so aggressively was because he knew Moore would bail him out. It's kind of a no risk play.
- RAGSareDANGERus

The shot went off the crossbar, that was pretty risky.

End result no goal