this is so dumb, the only reason you haven't had Pronger was because he had a devastating injury. It would have been absolutely worth it had he not gotten injured and that could have happened to anyone
- jimbro83

Pronger made them pretty good for the little time he played there.

The Rangers are likely going to be a contender for the foreseeable future. There is a big difference between that Pronger trade and the St. Louis trade; well more than one difference.

The Rangers are a better run organization than the Flyers and have positioned themselves to be more than a one and done attempt at a finals appearance. Secondly, aren't the Flyers still paying Pronger despite him not officially played an NHL sanctioned game in over three years? St. Louis is not an expensive rental and the first round picks aren't going to be in can't miss draft slots. It's not like the Rangers are a lottery team and Tampa is drafting can't miss prospects with those picks.
- MidnightMarauder

Yes, the Flyers are paying Pronger still, but that's due to a freak accident more than age. Also, what's your basis for judging how the 2 teams are run? Have you served in the front office of both teams?

Again, was using Pronger as an example. Unless MSL ends up being a key contributor to the Rangers, I think giving up first round picks for him was not worth it. Just my opinion.

By the way, if you guys really don't want those first round picks, we can reunite MSL with his old buddy Lecavalier for a few of them.

yeah, BUT, had Pronger NOT gotten injured, the Flyers would have had multiple chances to win the Cup with Pronger, just like the Rangers have ANOTHER CHANCE to win a cup with Marty this year.
- jimbro83

That's a huge factor, Pronger had the Flyers a contender, despite their lack of goaltending.

He made players like Matt Carle actually look good and his presence on the blueline was a tremendous stabilizing factor.

yeah, BUT, had Pronger NOT gotten injured, the Flyers would have had multiple chances to win the Cup with Pronger, just like the Rangers have ANOTHER CHANCE to win a cup with Marty this year.
- jimbro83

Absolutely. And if they had won one Cup with him, it was worth it.

My point was not comparing the Pronger trade to the MSL trade. It was stating that, if you are trading multiple first round picks for an aging superstar, I don't see losing in the SCF as good enough.

Yes, the Flyers are paying Pronger still, but that's due to a freak accident more than age. Also, what's your basis for judging how the 2 teams are run? Have you served in the front office of both teams?

Again, was using Pronger as an example. Unless MSL ends up being a key contributor to the Rangers, I think giving up first round picks for him was not worth it. Just my opinion.

By the way, if you guys really don't want those first round picks, we can reunite MSL with his old buddy Lecavalier for a few of them.
- jmatchett383

You don't think he was last postseason and so far this year?

You don't think he was last postseason and so far this year?
- TPC

Sorry. Please add, "winning the Stanley Cup" to the end of that.

Sorry. Please add, "winning the Stanley Cup" to the end of that.
- jmatchett383

Fair enough, your entitled to your opinion. I guess your not a big fan of the trade deadline rental then for teams trying to go for the cup.

Yes, the Flyers are paying Pronger still, but that's due to a freak accident more than age. Also, what's your basis for judging how the 2 teams are run? Have you served in the front office of both teams?

Again, was using Pronger as an example. Unless MSL ends up being a key contributor to the Rangers, I think giving up first round picks for him was not worth it. Just my opinion.

By the way, if you guys really don't want those first round picks, we can reunite MSL with his old buddy Lecavalier for a few of them.
- jmatchett383

I have not worked for both front offices but on ice success correlates to a competent management group. It's not a coincidence that the Rangers have won more playoff series than any other Eastern Conference team over the last three playoff seasons. Yes, no cups to show for it, but still a modicum of success that can't be ignored or credit given purely based on luck and Lundqvist.

The Rangers, despite the lack of hitting a first round draft home run, have still managed to stock the organizational cupboard fairly well. Combine that with good trades and shrewd signings(with the exception of Glass), the Rangers have set themselves up to be strong for beyond this recent run.

The Flyers, despite having two of the best point producers in the game today, are pretty much up to their usual tricks. Defense is a mess, goaltending is more stable now than in recent years when healthy, but ultimately the team looks like it's still making bad decisions that have ultimately put them in the spot they are in this season.

Defense is old, expensive and not very good and they are loaded with questionable cap killing contracts. Not exactly a great recipe in an NHL cap world.

Absolutely. And if they had won one Cup with him, it was worth it.

My point was not comparing the Pronger trade to the MSL trade. It was stating that, if you are trading multiple first round picks for an aging superstar, I don't see losing in the SCF as good enough.
- jmatchett383

The St. Louis New York Rangers story has not been finished yet.

Fair enough, your entitled to your opinion. I guess your not a big fan of the trade deadline rental then for teams trying to go for the cup.
- TPC

I'm not opposed to it. But I think that more often than not, teams go for the "name" as opposed to the need (case in point: Iginla to the Penguins a few years back). I think MSL is a good fit in NYR. I just don't think he was worth 2 1sts and Callahan. Just me. If he ends up being a big factor in them winning a Cup, then I'll eat my words.

The St. Louis New York Rangers story has not been finished yet.
- MidnightMarauder

Like I said below: if he ends up being a key contributor to them winning a Cup, then I'll say it was worth it.

Like I said below: if he ends up being a key contributor to them winning a Cup, then I'll say it was worth it.
- jmatchett383

Fair enough, St. Louis doesn't look like he is ready to hang it up after this year too. Rangers could bring him back for another year or two beyond this season. The guy has 35 points in 42 games; not exactly playing like a washed up vet.

I have not worked for both front offices but on ice success correlates to a competent management group. It's not a coincidence that the Rangers have won more playoff series than any other Eastern Conference team over the last three playoff seasons. Yes, no cups to show for it, but still a modicum of success that can't be ignored or credit given purely based on luck and Lundqvist.

The Rangers, despite the lack of hitting a first round draft home run, have still managed to stock the organizational cupboard fairly well. Combine that with good trades and shrewd signings(with the exception of Glass), the Rangers have set themselves up to be strong for beyond this recent run.

The Flyers, despite having two of the best point producers in the game today, are pretty much up to their usual tricks. Defense is a mess, goaltending is more stable now than in recent years when healthy, but ultimately the team looks like it's still making bad decisions that have ultimately put them in the spot they are in this season.

Defense is old, expensive and not very good and they are loaded with questionable cap killing contracts. Not exactly a great recipe in an NHL cap world.
- MidnightMarauder

Right now, the Flyers are bad. However, from the 94/95 - 11/12 season, they only missed the playoffs once, had 2 trips to the SCF and 4 trips to the ECF. No Cups to show for it, but for the better part of the last 2 decades, they were a contender more often that not.

No Cups to show for it, and right now, they're paying the price for overpriced bandaids that Holmgren got. Hextall seems to be showing the patience required to get through it, but they'll be bad for a few years, MAYBE a one-and-done playoff team.

Also, getting Lundqvist is the 6th round is more extreme luck than savvy roster management. That was probably one of the best value picks of all time.

Fair enough, St. Louis doesn't look like he is ready to hang it up after this year too. Rangers could bring him back for another year or two beyond this season. The guy has 35 points in 42 games; not exactly playing like a washed up vet.
- MidnightMarauder

No, not at all. He's an extremely talented player. I don't personally like his attitude, but he's a very talented player.

Fair enough, St. Louis doesn't look like he is ready to hang it up after this year too. Rangers could bring him back for another year or two beyond this season. The guy has 35 points in 42 games; not exactly playing like a washed up vet.
- MidnightMarauder

He is playing very well and works good with Stepan. If Steps stays healthy, MSL could easily hit 30 goals.

Two 30+ goal scorers and possibly six 20+ guys. when has that happened for the Rangers?

Right now, the Flyers are bad. However, from the 94/95 - 11/12 season, they only missed the playoffs once, had 2 trips to the SCF and 4 trips to the ECF. No Cups to show for it, but for the better part of the last 2 decades, they were a contender more often that not.

No Cups to show for it, and right now, they're paying the price for overpriced bandaids that Holmgren got. Hextall seems to be showing the patience required to get through it, but they'll be bad for a few years, MAYBE a one-and-done playoff team.

Also, getting Lundqvist is the 6th round is more extreme luck than savvy roster management. That was probably one of the best value picks of all time.
- jmatchett383

Try 7th round.

Right now, the Flyers are bad. However, from the 94/95 - 11/12 season, they only missed the playoffs once, had 2 trips to the SCF and 4 trips to the ECF. No Cups to show for it, but for the better part of the last 2 decades, they were a contender more often that not.

No Cups to show for it, and right now, they're paying the price for overpriced bandaids that Holmgren got. Hextall seems to be showing the patience required to get through it, but they'll be bad for a few years, MAYBE a one-and-done playoff team.

Also, getting Lundqvist is the 6th round is more extreme luck than savvy roster management. That was probably one of the best value picks of all time.
- jmatchett383

I remember that Flyers team from the mid 90s to the early mid 00's. There is merit in being a yearly cup contender despite not ever bringing it home. The year they went to the finals(97) they were favorites over the Wings. That sweep set them in a perpetual playoff funk; never realizing their potential until 2000 where they ran into another great team in NJ. Must have been frustrating to be a fan at that time because you knew your team was really good but they just a notch below teams like Jersey, Detroit and Colorado.

But, getting back to the subject at hand, the St. Louis deal will not be considered a bust even if they don't win, as long as Tampa doesn't go all the way while Callahan and the traded picks/draft selections.

He is playing very well and works good with Stepan. If Steps stays healthy, MSL could easily hit 30 goals.

Two 30+ goal scorers and possibly six 20+ guys. when has that happened for the Rangers?
- mames11

one unsung aspect of having MSL is the affect he is having on our young players, mentoring wise. It's priceless.

good game by the rangers on Sunday. they played a team that they are built to beat but i am still concerned that this team is not built to beat the "true" contenders. we can handle Pitt because they are soft and cant adjust the way they play. not sure if we can beat LA or Chi or a team like that. I still think we need 1 more player that can push us over the top. I love the Staal signing as that gives us a great top 4(including klein) for the next few years.

on another note, has anyone heard how Duclair is doing in juniors since his sent back? was just curious to see if he was tearing it up as he should.

Like I said below: if he ends up being a key contributor to them winning a Cup, then I'll say it was worth it.
- jmatchett383

Just wait till we draft the next Duclair with Tampa's 2nd rounder

It's like the Nash trade where we drafted Buchnevich with Columbus' 3rd rounder who is now considered a top 15 prospect in the world. Nash and Buchnevich is a hell of a haul.

Tampa traded down for 2 2nds with our 1st last year and while it's too early to tell how those picks will end up, early consensus is both their ceilings are fringe 3rd pairing defensemen at best.

good game by the rangers on Sunday. they played a team that they are built to beat but i am still concerned that this team is not built to beat the "true" contenders. we can handle Pitt because they are soft and cant adjust the way they play. not sure if we can beat LA or Chi or a team like that. I still think we need 1 more player that can push us over the top. I love the Staal signing as that gives us a great top 4(including klein) for the next few years.

on another note, has anyone heard how Duclair is doing in juniors since his sent back? was just curious to see if he was tearing it up as he should.
- richardson30

I think he has 1 goal, 3 assists in 4 games...but is also a -4 or something. Nothing amazing yet.

He is playing very well and works good with Stepan. If Steps stays healthy, MSL could easily hit 30 goals.

Two 30+ goal scorers and possibly six 20+ guys. when has that happened for the Rangers?
- mames11

Rangers haven't been this offensively talented in many years.

Brassard is turning into a very good second line center. Stepan, while not a top tier center, is extremely credible as a #1 and is having an excellent season. Kreider is not having a good season but he is still so talented and has the potential to be an excellent power forward in the league. Miller, Hayes and Hagelin give them solid depth and they are all under the age of 26. Zuccarello is having sub par season but he is still a solid depth scoring wing. St. Louis, what can you say about this guy? Tied for second on the team in scoring.

And then there's Rick Nash. Anyone still complaining about this guy's ability to score?

one unsung aspect of having MSL is the affect he is having on our young players, mentoring wise. It's priceless.
- jimbro83

All of the younger Rangers players look up to him. Every player has tremendous respect for St. Louis as well.

Just wait till we draft the next Duclair with Tampa's 2nd rounder

It's like the Nash trade where we drafted Buchnevich with Columbus' 3rd rounder who is now considered a top 15 prospect in the world. Nash and Buchnevich is a hell of a haul.

Tampa traded down for 2 2nds with our 1st last year and while it's too early to tell how those picks will end up, early consensus is both their ceilings are fringe 3rd pairing defensemen at best.
- RAGSareDANGERus

It's going to pain a lot of people if ultimately those Tampa first round selections, given up by NY in the St. Louis deal, turn into nothing but depth players or fringe NHLers.

I remember that Flyers team from the mid 90s to the early mid 00's. There is merit in being a yearly cup contender despite not ever bringing it home. The year they went to the finals(97) they were favorites over the Wings. That sweep set them in a perpetual playoff funk; never realizing their potential until 2000 where they ran into another great team in NJ. Must have been frustrating to be a fan at that time because you knew your team was really good but they just a notch below teams like Jersey, Detroit and Colorado.

But, getting back to the subject at hand, the St. Louis deal will not be considered a bust even if they don't win, as long as Tampa doesn't go all the way while Callahan and the traded picks/draft selections.
- MidnightMarauder

I think the 03/04 Flyers could have beaten anyone but Tampa Bay that year. Like last year, it was a W-L-W-L-W-L-W where the team with home ice was able to hold 2-1 in Game 7. That was the year they finally beat NJ. But yes, they were a frustrating team, but they always made it fun.

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad trade. I just wouldn't consider it a success to give up those young assets for an aging superstar because you lost in the SCF one time. That was my original point. That's not my barometer for success.