That's just not true -- I'm sorry, but it isn't. Because making the playoffs has to be something you're trying to do. That phrase "playoff fodder" just is overused and overplayed.

Look at Washington. Yeah, they paid a ton of money to Orpik and Niskanen, and Orpik's contract isn't ideal. If you call it a bad contract, I won't argue it.

But at the same point, what's worse: Missing the playoffs and paying Alex Ovechkin $10 million per season? Just to hold onto some mythical reward of a lot of cap space?

You cannot operate a professional sports franchise in some ideal world that doesn't exist, where you have perfect contracts AND all your draft picks AND a never-ending supply of young players AND cap space. There are no teams out there who have that.

They don't give you awards for how highly you draft, or how much cap space you have. You have to try to win -- that's the whole point of this stuff.
- AllInForFlyers

I'm not trying to win an award for the most cap space, I'm trying to ensure that they have enough cap space when they are a contender that they have enough flexibility to add a piece that can put them over the top.

Carrying dead cap space for four years, just so you can make a short term upgrade that allows you to make the playoffs and lose in round one is foolish. If you have to sign a bad contract, make sure it's one that gets you over the top. You sign third pair D-men to overpriced contracts or 4th liners to them and you end up in bad shape.

True, but at least the term isn't bad for the others.
- aflyerpower8

The combination of term and money is why I really think Amac is a bad deal. That's the kind of deal I'd want a core guy to have. I don't see him as that.

CRIMS,AWB🙊🙈🙉
- Duane B

you still don't know how much this hurts

I'm not trying to win an award for the most cap space, I'm trying to ensure that they have enough cap space when they are a contender that they have enough flexibility to add a piece that can put them over the top.

Carrying dead cap space for four years, just so you can make a short term upgrade that allows you to make the playoffs and lose in round one is foolish. If you have to sign a bad contract, make sure it's one that gets you over the top. You sign third pair D-men to overpriced contracts or 4th liners to them and you end up in bad shape.
- Jsaquella

Flyers have made countless deals over the years to add players at the deadline to try and make a run. I don't see that changing. I agree completely with making the right moves, not just moves. I think the rest of the season will be more telling, but I think Umberger can be a solid 3rd line winger, as he has been lately. So unless they need the space to do something, holding onto Umberger another year, wouldn't be a big deal, and it would cut the buyout term in half. Lecavalier is a different story. I think he is the more important player to move.

The combination of term and money is why I really think Amac is a bad deal. That's the kind of deal I'd want a core guy to have. I don't see him as that.
- Jsaquella

A defenseman that plays solid hockey and gets around 20 minutes a game as a top 4 puck moving defenseman is a core player.

A defenseman that plays solid hockey and gets around 20 minutes a game as a top 4 puck moving defenseman is a core player.
- MJL

Very few agree with you, understand that and stop trying to justify why you feel he is a top 4 player.

It's a dead horse at this point, thank you. We all have our opinions.

Very few agree with you, understand that and stop trying to justify why you feel he is a top 4 player.

It's a dead horse at this point, thank you. We all have our opinions.
- ob18

Very few agree with you, understand that and stop trying to justify why you feel he is a top 4 player.

It's a dead horse at this point, thank you.
- ob18

If MacDonald is being discussed, why don't I have the right to give my opinion? Is giving my opinion against the code of conduct? There are umpteen subjects that are a dead horse and are repeatedly brought up and discussed, and those that do don't get this reply.

Not only that, but how do you put a defense out at that spot on the field without a deep safety?
- MJL

Pete Carrol sold his soul to the Devil

I'm not trying to win an award for the most cap space, I'm trying to ensure that they have enough cap space when they are a contender that they have enough flexibility to add a piece that can put them over the top.

Carrying dead cap space for four years, just so you can make a short term upgrade that allows you to make the playoffs and lose in round one is foolish. If you have to sign a bad contract, make sure it's one that gets you over the top. You sign third pair D-men to overpriced contracts or 4th liners to them and you end up in bad shape.
- Jsaquella

But you don't know that you're going to lose in Round One -- how does anyone know that? When you make those moves when you have perfect flexibility, you have no more way of knowing those will work than if you don't.

St. Louis has been trying for years to thread that needle, winning without paying and doing the ugly deals, only to keep getting knocked out of the playoffs by teams that are bringing in Mike Richards and Marian Gaborik and Jeff Carter and Marian Hossa.

You cannot avoid risk in this sport, or bad contracts or tough decisions. You cannot draft your way to a Cup and have that be the only thing you do, or know that the move you make is the right one every time you make them.

You do have to try to get better.

A defenseman that plays solid hockey and gets around 20 minutes a game as a top 4 puck moving defenseman is a core player.
- MJL

AMac is a " good" 4man. Definitely not a core player. Giroux, Jake, Simmonds, Mason... Core players

Del Zotto has been playing really well lately, and was the team's best defenseman last night. It was against Buffalo, but still.
- MJL

i agree he's been decent. i would rather try to move amac and grossman before i move coburn and streit even if their return would be greater. you would still clear some cap space without disrupting the room too much.

AMac is a " good" 4man. Definitely not a core player. Giroux, Jake, Simmonds, Mason... Core players
- 3flyerkids

I view him as a core player moving forward.

- Tomahawk

There are a slew of 28 year old dmen in the NHL who have cap hits of 5 million who are healthy scratches.

CORE

AMac is a " good" 4man. Definitely not a core player. Giroux, Jake, Simmonds, Mason... Core players
- 3flyerkids

If you are building a team he is not somebody I'd even consider and my 7th d-man. It's a bad contract. Core players typically are rarely benched.

A defenseman that plays solid hockey and gets around 20 minutes a game as a top 4 puck moving defenseman is a core player.
- MJL

not to start anything, but i just dont see core players around the league really being healthy scratches.

If you are building a team he is not somebody I'd even consider and my 7th d-man. It's a bad contract. Core players typically are rarely benched.
- ob18

beat me

The combination of term and money is why I really think Amac is a bad deal. That's the kind of deal I'd want a core guy to have. I don't see him as that.
- Jsaquella

It's a bad deal, no question.

He's being paid OEL money which is ludicrous.

not to start anything, but i just dont see core players around the league really being healthy scratches.
- stayinthefnnet

In fairness, when a team is stacked to the gills with blueline stalwarts like the Flyers are, the competition for playing time is going to be fierce.

But you don't know that you're going to lose in Round One -- how does anyone know that? When you make those moves when you have perfect flexibility, you have no more way of knowing those will work than if you don't.

St. Louis has been trying for years to thread that needle, winning without paying and doing the ugly deals, only to keep getting knocked out of the playoffs by teams that are bringing in Mike Richards and Marian Gaborik and Jeff Carter and Marian Hossa.

You cannot avoid risk in this sport, or bad contracts or tough decisions. You cannot draft your way to a Cup and have that be the only thing you do, or know that the move you make is the right one every time you make them.

You do have to try to get better.
- AllInForFlyers

Again, totally agree. It just seems that some are better at it. Look at Boston, they brought in Iginla, signed him to a big incentive deal, and they didn't win the Cup. This year they're stuck with a 4M cap hit. They had to trade Boychuk due to cap space. It is different in that the 4M cap hit is one year, versus signing a player to a long term deal that doesn't work out, and they did get some draft picks for Boychuck, but it did hurt them. I think the idea is to limit the damage as much as possible and take acceptable losses.

In fairness, when a team is stacked to the gills with blueline stalwarts like the Flyers are, the competition for playing time is going to be fierce.
- PLindbergh31

It's a bad deal, no question.

He's being paid OEL money which is ludicrous.
- 77rams

OEL is 22 and is on his 2nd NHL contract out of his EL deal. If OEL was MacDonald's age, and a pending UFA, he would cost a lot more to re-sign then what MacDonald got. The two deals aren't comparable for those reasons.

I might get greedy and ask for Nick Ebert too, but would still be driving Coburn to the airport if they said no.


- Tomahawk

That'd be an awkward car ride. Especially if theres traffic

But you don't know that you're going to lose in Round One -- how does anyone know that? When you make those moves when you have perfect flexibility, you have no more way of knowing those will work than if you don't.

St. Louis has been trying for years to thread that needle, winning without paying and doing the ugly deals, only to keep getting knocked out of the playoffs by teams that are bringing in Mike Richards and Marian Gaborik and Jeff Carter and Marian Hossa.

You cannot avoid risk in this sport, or bad contracts or tough decisions. You cannot draft your way to a Cup and have that be the only thing you do, or know that the move you make is the right one every time you make them.

You do have to try to get better.
- AllInForFlyers

I'm fine with making the big deal to bring in the final piece, but when they are a realistic contender.

Right now, they're not a realistic contender. They're likely two to three years away from being a realistic contender. That's why Hextall is preaching patience. That's why he hasn't made any short term deals to help them squeak into the playoff this season.

All I'm talking about is being smart. Don't trade assets at the deadline for guys who are marginal upgrades, unless you really can get over the top with a more solid third pair. You make the big deal when you need a scorer like Carter or Gaborik to get to the SCF, not when you need to squeak into the playoffs.

If all you're doing is creating four years of dead cap space with a buyout to add a marginal upgrade like Paul Martin, congrats, you'll make the playoffs and maybe win a round.

Then, you have to either re-sign Voracek, B. Schenn, Couturier & Coburn or trade some of them away, because you have dead space on the cap and paid a premium for a solid number 2 defenseman. You took one step forward to take 3 back.

Now, if you have a deal to add a legitimate number one defenseman and need an extra $2mm to make it work, yeah, I'd much more strongly consider an immediate buyout. Otherwise, no, because all you are doing is creating a trouble spot you have to navigate later, without making the team significantly better.