But you can't not try to win -- you have to try to fix what you know is broken.

Take Big Ed out of it.

There are, what, 10-12 thousand season ticket holders. They have a right to expect the Flyers to not run VLC and Umberger both out there next season, on the hope that 2017 might be better -- you can't do that.

I'm not saying that you can do everything -- they probably can't.

But you have to do SOMETHING. People pay money to watch this team -- it's just not as simple as saying "2016, 2017, maybe?"
- AllInForFlyers

In my opinion, this Flyers team is never going to tank or give up seasons. They may not mortgage the future to try and win RIGHT now, but they are going to continue to try and win, and approach each season with the goal of making the playoffs and see what happens.

In my opinion, this Flyers team is never going to tank or give up seasons. They may not mortgage the future to try and win RIGHT now, but they are going to continue to try and win, and approach each season with the goal of making the playoffs and see what happens.
- MJL

The reason I root for this team as hard as I do is because they don't give up seasons willingly

The reason I root for this team as hard as I do is because they don't give up seasons willingly
- AllInForFlyers

100% in agreement, love this franchise for their commitment to winning.

Yep -- we don't always agree, but I'm with you there
- AllInForFlyers

Sure, but that ignores that they get spoon fed OZ starts and go against lesser levels of competition and it increases the burden on the other 3 lines, especially Couturier's.

Also, assuming that another combination on that fourth line would allow 8 goals while scoring none is simply a hypothetical.

There's also a good chance that this entire strategy backfires, and they never get anywhere.
- MJL

I will be more than happy to be proven wrong, and if it happens, then anyone can freely tell me "I told you so"

But I have a feeling that is exactly what is going to happen

I'm not totally writing them off, because who knows what can happen? But at the same time let's be realistic. Are they a sure fire contender? Nope. Should they make short term deals to win now? Not likely. Just continue to be patient, avoid rushing into a short term fix and keep developing the kids.
- Jsaquella

Well we know a 36 game winning streak won't happen.

There's also a good chance that this entire strategy backfires, and they never get anywhere.
- MJL

Hinkie walked into a situation where the team had Holiday, Thad Young, Hawes and Turner as its core. They had relinquished all young assets including 2 first round picks for Bynum. The picks were top 10 protected, so if the Sixers would have finished outside the top 10 last season, they would have given away that pick. Instead, they parted with a pair of 2nd rounders (not that big of a deal in the NBA).

What would you have done? Re-signed Hawes, Turner and Young to form a nice, expensive 30 win team? Good luck getting any star player to come join that group.

But you can't not try to win -- you have to try to fix what you know is broken.

Take Big Ed out of it.

There are, what, 10-12 thousand season ticket holders. They have a right to expect the Flyers to not run VLC and Umberger both out there next season, on the hope that 2017 might be better -- you can't do that.

I'm not saying that you can do everything -- they probably can't.

But you have to do SOMETHING. People pay money to watch this team -- it's just not as simple as saying "2016, 2017, maybe?"
- AllInForFlyers

Let's be honest -- people will pay money to watch this team no matter what. It's not Toronto, but it's not Pittsburgh either. Ed seems like he'll accept a short-term hit to prestige to get this thing on solid ground again.

Well we know a 36 game winning streak won't happen.
- ob18

I'm talking about next season. They can talk about still being alive all they want, but the Flyers making the playoffs is past water into wine and more into Lazarus Rise From The Grave level miracle

Let's be honest -- people will pay money to watch this team no matter what. It's not Toronto, but it's not Pittsburgh either. Ed seems like he'll accept a short-term hit to prestige to get this thing on solid ground again.
- Tomahawk

Is it really that short term though?

Sure, but that ignores that they get spoon fed OZ starts and go against lesser levels of competition and it increases the burden on the other 3 lines, especially Couturier's.

Also, assuming that another combination on that fourth line would allow 8 goals while scoring none is simply a hypothetical.
- Jsaquella

Yes, but what's the alternative? I understand the numbers that were posted, but there's no difference in the fourth line getting caved in like they were last season and never scoring, and the fourth line with VLC on it being less-than-break even.

At some point, you gotta pick your poison -- yeah, it'd be nice to have some other guys get better starts. But the Flyers don't have the personnel to have shutdown fourth line, so having one that can score is a feasible option based on what is available to them

Is it really that short term though?
- PhillySportsGuy

If they do it right, and with some luck, yeah. 1-2 years of being this bad... another 1-3 years of steadily getting better. Flyers fans have suffered through worse.

If they do it right, and with some luck, yeah. 1-2 years of being this bad... another 1-3 years of steadily getting better. Flyers fans have suffered through worse.
- Tomahawk

Thats potentially 5 years. Thats a full rebuild

Sure, but that ignores that they get spoon fed OZ starts and go against lesser levels of competition and it increases the burden on the other 3 lines, especially Couturier's.

Also, assuming that another combination on that fourth line would allow 8 goals while scoring none is simply a hypothetical.
- Jsaquella

It doesn't ignore anything. It's a 4th line. It's not comprised of players that you would expect to be a shut down line. It's not really a hypothetical, as they weren't getting much offense out of the 4th line in recent times as they've gotten out of the line with 76/78/40 on it. The so called hypothetical was given as a reason why the coach wants to keep it together. Based on his other options, it is at least producing some offense. I'm amazed at how some of these media types can't figure the simplest things out.

Yes, but what's the alternative? I understand the numbers that were posted, but there's no difference in the fourth line getting caved in like they were last season and never scoring, and the fourth line with VLC on it being less-than-break even.

At some point, you gotta pick your poison -- yeah, it'd be nice to have some other guys get better starts. But the Flyers don't have the personnel to have shutdown fourth line, so having one that can score is a feasible option based on what is available to them
- AllInForFlyers

You do have to pick your poison. Do you prefer a line that can't carry any of the defensive burden and gets outscored despite pretty easy usage or would you rather have a line that can lift the burden off the other lines, freeing those lines up to score more.

Because that's what they have now, a 4th line that plays against lesser competition, gets spoon fed easy zone start situations and still gets outscored, while being unable to lessen the burden on the other lines.

Thats potentially 5 years. Thats a full rebuild
- PhillySportsGuy

WTF WTF WTF WTF

Hinkie walked into a situation where the team had Holiday, Thad Young, Hawes and Turner as its core. They had relinquished all young assets including 2 first round picks for Bynum. The picks were top 10 protected, so if the Sixers would have finished outside the top 10 last season, they would have given away that pick. Instead, they parted with a pair of 2nd rounders (not that big of a deal in the NBA).

What would you have done? Re-signed Hawes, Turner and Young to form a nice, expensive 30 win team? Good luck getting any star player to come join that group.
- PhillySportsGuy

There's always a middle ground. All I'm saying is that there seems to be some excitement among Sixers fans in the approach that the team has taken. There is a very real possibility that it blows up in their face.

Thats potentially 5 years. Thats a full rebuild
- PhillySportsGuy

Up to yes. It could take as little as 2 if they luck out big time w/ draft position, development and hit on a lot of picks

Yes, but what's the alternative? I understand the numbers that were posted, but there's no difference in the fourth line getting caved in like they were last season and never scoring, and the fourth line with VLC on it being less-than-break even.

At some point, you gotta pick your poison -- yeah, it'd be nice to have some other guys get better starts. But the Flyers don't have the personnel to have shutdown fourth line, so having one that can score is a feasible option based on what is available to them
- AllInForFlyers

Well said.

You do have to pick your poison. Do you prefer a line that can't carry any of the defensive burden and gets outscored despite pretty easy usage or would you rather have a line that can lift the burden off the other lines, freeing those lines up to score more.

Because that's what they have now, a 4th line that plays against lesser competition, gets spoon fed easy zone start situations and still gets outscored, while being unable to lessen the burden on the other lines.
- Jsaquella

But it's same thing as last year, where Hall/Rinaldo/Rosehill/Player X were so bad at ES, you couldn't even deploy them for more than 5 minutes a game, so you were still unable to get guys the kinds of starts you're talking about

They don't have the personnel to run a shutdown line -- I wish they did. I'd much rather they lock teams down. But they don't have the horses for that

But it's same thing as last year, where Hall/Rinaldo/Rosehill/Player X were so bad at ES, you couldn't even deploy them for more than 5 minutes a game, so you were still unable to get guys the kinds of starts you're talking about

They don't have the personnel to run a shutdown line -- I wish they did. I'd much rather they lock teams down. But they don't have the horses for that
- AllInForFlyers

It doesn't have to be a shutdown line. But when you have a line that's getting outscored while getting easy usage, and can't even help carry the defensive burden, I'd advocate for trying something else.

You do have to pick your poison. Do you prefer a line that can't carry any of the defensive burden and gets outscored despite pretty easy usage or would you rather have a line that can lift the burden off the other lines, freeing those lines up to score more.


- Jsaquella

I'd rather have a 4th line that can play well defensively against scoring lines, chip in some offense and provide energy on the forecheck. The Flyers don't have the personel for that.

Because that's what they have now, a 4th line that plays against lesser competition, gets spoon fed easy zone start situations and still gets outscored, while being unable to lessen the burden on the other lines.
- Jsaquella

That's better then a line that gets outscored to a higher degree,and doesn't score any goals for the team.

It doesn't have to be a shutdown line. But when you have a line that's getting outscored while getting easy usage, and can't even help carry the defensive burden, I'd advocate for trying something else.
- Jsaquella

Even if trying something else would lead to a worse result? That's a factor when deciding whether to try something else.

There's always a middle ground. All I'm saying is that there seems to be some excitement among Sixers fans in the approach that the team has taken. There is a very real possibility that it blows up in their face.
- MJL

No matter what, they will be in way better position than when Hinkie first took over. Sixers have last year's ROY and they have 3 of the top 15 rookies this year. They will likely have 3 of the top 10 rookies next year.

It doesn't have to be a shutdown line. But when you have a line that's getting outscored while getting easy usage, and can't even help carry the defensive burden, I'd advocate for trying something else.
- Jsaquella

I think we can all agree on this: The Flyers need different, and better, options for L4. That has to be something they can do.