See, where I differ is that I do think some of the issues the Flyers have are fixable -- how many shifts or periods or games has it cost them with the adjustment of Schenn to the wing, Wheels to the wing, trying Simmonds on the left, trying Raffl at center, etc.? There has to be some cost associated with it, right?

The Flyers aren't the only team that moves guys around, but at some point, you have to acknowledge that having guys playing in positions they are comfortable in is beneficial to the team, as a whole.
- AllInForFlyers

All of this pertains to the mix. The Flyers have good players, they just don't have the right mix of players that gel with each other to form a good team. They also have some holes in personnel, most notably a legit top defense pairing.

I'd buyout both. You can replace them with cheap ufas. Those two are just too much of a drag. This team has to start playing faster.
- Just5

Need to get a little bigger, too -- TBH, I thought Berube wasn't necessarily wrong when he sat MacDonald against Washington.

Those boys are big, and physical, and the Flyers could stand a little more Tom Wilson and a little less "Stick-Checking on the Forecheck," like VLC and Umberger tend to do

any timo news

Yeah! We should replace them with Havlat!

Seriously though, I think you try to replace them with youth if your going that route- Leier, Akeson or Cousins type.
- coffee junkie

But you have to replace VL over 6 years, and you're carrying his buyout penalty that whole time.

Yes, the buyout, IIRC, was $1.6mm for two years and then $1.5 for two more. If they waited a year, it was $1.6mm for one and $1.5mm for one
- Jsaquella

So three years or 4 years of him on the books? Sadly I would wait, because I think next year is going to be a bit of a wash as well and not need to sell the future for the present when the present is gloomy.

any timo news
- -davies-

Probably alive???

So three years or 4 years of him on the books? Sadly I would wait, because I think next year is going to be a bit of a wash as well and not need to sell the future for the present when the present is gloomy.
- coffee junkie

I'd wait simply because I think next year could be another lottery year, although I expect them to be better, not sure they'll be a playoff team. Might as well wait and get less dinged.

I thought the idea was to put together the worst team in the league to acquire the #1 overall pick.
- jmatchett383

Their entire plan is just acquiring assets and allowing young players to develop without worrying about being benched for mistakes. They encourage their players to work on their weaknesses in game.

They aren't trying to lose, they just aren't trying to win right now. I know that doesn't make sense, but there is a difference.

Edit: They also leave themselves with space to add players with upside. They found both Wroten and Covington for nothing. Both of those guys have played well. Covington is probably part of the future. Wroten could net them 2 2nds or a late 1st

But you have to replace VL over 6 years, and you're carrying his buyout penalty that whole time.
- jmatchett383

I'm not actually proposing buying him out only making reference to if he was. I try to trade him or let him waste on the 4th line for a few years and then buy him out.

But you have to replace VL over 6 years, and you're carrying his buyout penalty that whole time.
- jmatchett383

The Flyers could take a small risk, pay the signing bonus, and try and move him during the Summer, rather then buy him out

I'd wait simply because I think next year could be another lottery year, although I expect them to be better, not sure they'll be a playoff team. Might as well wait and get less dinged.
- Jsaquella

Maybe I'm too drunk to type but that is exactly what I meant. Next year is probably a wash.

I'd wait simply because I think next year could be another lottery year, although I expect them to be better, not sure they'll be a playoff team. Might as well wait and get less dinged.
- Jsaquella

Maybe I'm too drunk to type but that is exactly what I meant. Next year is probably a wash.

Their entire plan is just acquiring assets and allowing young players to develop without worrying about being benched for mistakes. They encourage their players to work on their weaknesses in game.

They aren't trying to lose, they just aren't trying to win right now. I know that doesn't make sense, but there is a difference.
- PhillySportsGuy

It makes sense to me, and it's an important distinction. I think it's the difference between rebuilding or retooling, and flat out tanking, which I despise, and don't want the Flyers doing.

See, where I differ is that I do think some of the issues the Flyers have are fixable -- how many shifts or periods or games has it cost them with the adjustment of Schenn to the wing, Wheels to the wing, trying Simmonds on the left, trying Raffl at center, etc.? There has to be some cost associated with it, right?

The Flyers aren't the only team that moves guys around, but at some point, you have to acknowledge that having guys playing in positions they are comfortable in is beneficial to the team, as a whole.
- AllInForFlyers

Say they fix all their problems up front in that cap-dump deal, but they took on more term to do it. The blueline will still be what it is for the next 2-3 seasons, right?

Meanwhile, when Vinny/Umberger's contracts would have expired, and the team/blueline is finally coming in to its own, you've got that winger's (who is probably seriously post-apex at this point) contract tying your hands again, when your chance to really go for it is there.

Interesting stuff

Bob Roberts ‏@BobRbrts 5m5 minutes ago

I don't get Berube wanting to keep this 4th line together at all costs. Even with a goals focus. In 13 games they've scored 7 and let up 8

Bob Roberts ‏@BobRbrts 6m6 minutes ago

That's 46.7% GoalsFor, which is -10.9% relative to the team in that span. With that 4th line off ice, the team is getting 57.6% of the goals

Say they fix all their problems up front in that cap-dump deal, but they took on more term to do it. The blueline will still be what it is for the next 2-3 seasons, right?

Meanwhile, when Vinny/Umberger's contracts would have expired, and the team/blueline is finally coming in to its own, you've got that winger's (who is probably seriously post-apex at this point) contract tying your hands again, when your chance to really go for it is there.
- Tomahawk

The flip side is 2-3 seasons wasted of Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, etc.

Marchand gets 2 games for his slew foot

Interesting stuff

Bob Roberts ‏@BobRbrts 5m5 minutes ago

I don't get Berube wanting to keep this 4th line together at all costs. Even with a goals focus. In 13 games they've scored 7 and let up 8

Bob Roberts ‏@BobRbrts 6m6 minutes ago

That's 46.7% GoalsFor, which is -10.9% relative to the team in that span. With that 4th line off ice, the team is getting 57.6% of the goals
- Jsaquella

Because it's better then scoring no goals and giving up 8.

I'd wait simply because I think next year could be another lottery year, although I expect them to be better, not sure they'll be a playoff team. Might as well wait and get less dinged.
- Jsaquella

Good thing next year's draft is pretty good, too.

Say they fix all their problems up front in that cap-dump deal, but they took on more term to do it. The blueline will still be what it is for the next 2-3 seasons, right?

Meanwhile, when Vinny/Umberger's contracts would have expired, and the team/blueline is finally coming in to its own, you've got that winger's (who is probably seriously post-apex at this point) contract tying your hands again, when your chance to really go for it is there.
- Tomahawk

But you can't not try to win -- you have to try to fix what you know is broken.

Take Big Ed out of it.

There are, what, 10-12 thousand season ticket holders. They have a right to expect the Flyers to not run VLC and Umberger both out there next season, on the hope that 2017 might be better -- you can't do that.

I'm not saying that you can do everything -- they probably can't.

But you have to do SOMETHING. People pay money to watch this team -- it's just not as simple as saying "2016, 2017, maybe?"

What happens if Noel and Embiid don't develop?
- MJL

Noel will never be a great offensive player. He's already a very good defensive player though. He's one of the better defensive big men in the league already.

Embiid will be good if he's healthy. He would have been the 1st overall pick if he didn't have the injury.

They still have others like MCW, KJ McDaniels, Jerami Grant, Covington Wroten, Saric and two more first round picks coming this offseason.

There is a good chance one of their picks/young players becomes a star. At the very least, they will develop into a team thats just a young star away from contending for a title. They have enough cap space to sign any two players in the league.

Noel will never be a great offensive player. He's already a very good defensive player though. He's one of the better defensive big men in the league already.

Embiid will be good if he's healthy. He would have been the 1st overall pick if he didn't have the injury.

They still have others like MCW, KJ McDaniels, Jerami Grant, Covington Wroten, Saric and two more first round picks coming this offseason.

There is a good chance one of their picks/young players becomes a star. At the very least, they will develop into a team thats just a young star away from contending for a title. They have enough cap space to sign any two players in the league.
- PhillySportsGuy

There's also a good chance that this entire strategy backfires, and they never get anywhere.

Yeah! We should replace them with Havlat!

Seriously though, I think you try to replace them with youth if your going that route- Leier, Akeson or Cousins type.
- coffee junkie

Those guys. Pick up a forward for cheap like how we got nick Schultz. Get another European like raffl, Bellemare. That's why we they pay their pro scouts

Good thing next year's draft is pretty good, too.
- Tomahawk

I'm not totally writing them off, because who knows what can happen? But at the same time let's be realistic. Are they a sure fire contender? Nope. Should they make short term deals to win now? Not likely. Just continue to be patient, avoid rushing into a short term fix and keep developing the kids.

Because it's better then scoring no goals and giving up 8.
- MJL

Yep -- we don't always agree, but I'm with you there