realistically, probably not. there are definitely many ways to skin a cat, and none of them are surefire locks.

but at the same time, if forced to pick one based entirely on mathematical odds (which admittedly is a shallow basis) you have a much better chance hitting on one or two top 5 picks than you do striking gold in the second three or four times.

let alone landing 2 top free agents to deals that wont sink your team in todays market.


that being said, i still dont think the flyers need to go the tank route.
- stayinthefnnet

I guess I'm confused about how that matters? I think we can all agree that missing the playoffs is missing the playoffs, and whether you miss by a lot or a little only matters when it comes to the draft, so why not get as high a pick as possible?

It simply points out that tanking is not a guarantee of anything. I don't think you have to tank. I think you can try to compete and build through the draft at the same time.
- MJL

of course you can...detroit does it and does it well. the question is how do they do it? the answer is they have a better handle on player selection, development and use than almost every other team and WAAAY better than the flyers

I guess I'm confused about how that matters? I think we can all agree that missing the playoffs is missing the playoffs, and whether you miss by a lot or a little only matters when it comes to the draft, so why not get as high a pick as possible?
- wolfhounds

confused as to how my opinion matters?

i mean, i guess in the grand scheme of things it doesnt, but okay.

of course you can...detroit does it and does it well. the question is how do they do it? the answer is they have a better handle on player selection, development and use than almost every other team and WAAAY better than the flyers
- hogweed

yeah. they are damn good at it thats for sure.

the transition they are able to implement is very commendable. just as guys like dats and zetterberg are waning, guys like nyqvist and tatar are rounding into form.

I guess I'm confused about how that matters? I think we can all agree that missing the playoffs is missing the playoffs, and whether you miss by a lot or a little only matters when it comes to the draft, so why not get as high a pick as possible?
- wolfhounds

Tanking is just a loaded term.

Selling off pieces that you wouldn't have wanted to keep anyway, a little bit earlier than usual, is what most of us are hinting at.

Nobody wants to see them do a Pens For Mario and shamefully trade off good players for a pittance, completely forsake the on-ice product, and stuff like that.

Tanking is just a loaded term.

Selling off pieces that you wouldn't have wanted to keep anyway, a little bit earlier than usual, is what most of us are hinting at.

Nobody wants to see them do a Pens For Mario and shamefully trade off good players for a pittance, completely forsake the on-ice product, and stuff like that.
- Tomahawk

yeah. to me, tanking also typically isnt a one year endeavor. its the sort of thing that bleeds through. which can be tricky, because at a certain point you may want it to stop and the valve doesnt just shut off, such as in edmonton.

I read the book. Hoping to see movie this weekend as it is was released today in Canada
- 3flyerkids

I just finished the book today (excellent)

I will be seeing the movie on Monday.

Tanking is just a loaded term.

Selling off pieces that you wouldn't have wanted to keep anyway, a little bit earlier than usual, is what most of us are hinting at.

Nobody wants to see them do a Pens For Mario and shamefully trade off good players for a pittance, completely forsake the on-ice product, and stuff like that.
- Tomahawk

Agree, the Pens " tank" was so obvious. This team as it stands is going no where. I would like to see G and Jake keep their pace up and finish in the top 3.
I do hope this team does make some " smart" hockey deals and also end up with a top 5 pick.

I just finished the book today (excellent)

I will be seeing the movie on Monday.
- MBFlyerfan

Great book! I couldn't put it down

yeah. to me, tanking also typically isnt a one year endeavor. its the sort of thing that bleeds through. which can be tricky, because at a certain point you may want it to stop and the valve doesnt just shut off, such as in edmonton.
- stayinthefnnet

Exactly. Columbus and the Islanders were going to stay brutal if they just kept relying on the draft -- Scott Howson got KILLED for trading two seconds for Bob. Absolutely roasted.

But see how that turned out?

People shouldn't get so married to making the picks that being awful brings. There are other ways to skin the cat

Great book! I couldn't put it down
- 3flyerkids

Same here. I blasted through it in 2 days.


I liked it so much I decided to pick up Lone Survivor.

confused as to how my opinion matters?

i mean, i guess in the grand scheme of things it doesnt, but okay.
- stayinthefnnet

Noooo... the difference between missing the playoffs, which the Flyers are all but assured of, and tanking.

I live for your opinion. Don't you ever forget that!

Exactly. Columbus and the Islanders were going to stay brutal if they just kept relying on the draft -- Scott Howson got KILLED for trading two seconds for Bob. Absolutely roasted.

But see how that turned out?

People shouldn't get so married to making the picks that being awful brings. There are other ways to skin the cat
- AllInForFlyers

i think sometimes if you have a team that is absolutely devoid of top end talent, then the most likely way to get it in today's game is probably with a high draft pick. but even if you take that team, give it that potential franchise center with the top pick or whatnot, thats still only a portion of the equation.

you need to patch in a lot of those other glue guys. eventually you need to right the ship. and at a certain point, it cant be done with more high draft picks.

I have always understood your premise in that elite talent wins. I don't dispute that.

But I have sincere doubts that it is always reliable. Yes, it worked for Chicago.

But it's not just Edmonton's rebuild that failed. People will try to point to the Islanders, now that they are winning, but look at what they did -- they had to move picks and prospects left and right to land a goalie and two defensemen. After a decade with one playoff appearance.

It's never as simple as drafting your way out. Brian Campbell and Marian Hossa had to agree to come to Chicago, for example, as free agents. But that never gets talked about.

Tanking isn't reliable because it is not all that has to happen
- AllInForFlyers

I completely agree that you need to supplement top picks with smart trades and UFA signings. LA is a great example of that. To trade, you need a surplus of excellent prospects and picks. It's not enough to have one guy per draft from the top 5 turn out as Edmonton can attest too. But to acquire the elite level talent needed, the top 5 is the most consistent place to obtain them.

The Flyers need elite players; top 3 defensemen, top line winger, top 2 scoring center. They have done well when they actually keep there picks but they need a large influx of talent now before the excellent players on the roster age out of peak productivity. The benefit of choosing top 5 is that those players tend to be more NHL ready than later picks. Ekblad is already contributing in the NHL while Sanheim won't probably be here for another full season at the earliest. Ekblad will be entering his 3rd season before Sanheim plays his 1st NHL game. Giroux and Voracek need help now.

I wonder what currently has better odds?
Flyers getting the # 1 pick, or making the playoffs?

Piratebay...
- Giroux_Is_God

It will be back, if not kickass torrents and host of other options are available now.

I refuse to spend my hard earned money for some overpriced film/cd so some well off rich folks can buy more gold toilet seats.

Pirate forever.

By as early as next season, LHV will be flush with guys like Lindblom, Aube-Kubel, Fazleev, Mike Parks, in addition to the top-end talent that's likely to come through, and the kids like Cousins/Leier/Hagg already down there.

Given all that, signing Z2 could just be adding another guy on an NHL contract that's spending most of his time in Reading, w/ a snowball's chance in hell of moving up the ladder.
- Tomahawk

Don't NAK and Fazleev have to play in Junior one more year? And Lindblom may stay in Sweden since he's getting plenty of playing time, unlike what happened with Hagg.

Goulbourne would be looking to edge out guys like Fyten and Rosehill. Also Alderson, Goumas and Hextall.

I wonder what currently has better odds?
Flyers getting the # 1 pick, or making the playoffs?
- PLindbergh31

Both more likely than Rinaldo being employed by a top 10 team in the league.

i still think this team is maybe one forward away (along with a healthy read), from being able to ice a very damn good top 9.

it has been, and until its addressed in some way shape or form, will always be, the defensive mix.
- stayinthefnnet

They desperately need a playmaker and another offensive catalyst. The problem with this team is the mix. Too many grinder type forwards. Need some more skill and speed. Preferably a LW to play with Couturier. My ideal is a playmaker/puck carrying winger to form a 2nd scoring line with Couturier and Simmonds.

Zepp on Ray Emery's plight in the game: "It’s not a fun feeling, but let’s call a spade a spade. "
- bmeltzer

not the best choice of words.

Noooo... the difference between missing the playoffs, which the Flyers are all but assured of, and tanking.

I live for your opinion. Don't you ever forget that!
- wolfhounds

well then, as to your point, no there really is no mathematical way to say that missing the playoffs as the last team out or missing them and picking first are different outcomes. at the end of the day, youre still golfing.

i do admit i have a certain frame of mind associated with the term tank. like i said, to me, its not something that is typically limited to one season, and the lines can blur quickly. i think that it can become a monster that doesnt stop eating even when you no longer want to feed it if not done properly.

if youre just saying well (frank) it, we finish where we finish, and just take it again next year from the top, that doesnt fall into the tanking category to me.

They desperately need a playmaker and another offensive catalyst. The problem with this team is the mix. Too many grinder type forwards. Need some more skill and speed. Preferably a LW to play with Couturier. My ideal is a playmaker/puck carrying winger to form a 2nd scoring line with Couturier and Simmonds.
- MJL

i think jussi jokinen could have been decent in that role.

not a superstar, but fit wise, that is about as good as i think you would need.

Both more likely than Rinaldo being employed by a top 10 team in the league.
- flyer_nutter

Rinaldo should be working at Blockbuster.

They desperately need a playmaker and another offensive catalyst. The problem with this team is the mix. Too many grinder type forwards. Need some more skill and speed. Preferably a LW to play with Couturier. My ideal is a playmaker/puck carrying winger to form a 2nd scoring line with Couturier and Simmonds.
- MJL

For a team full of grinder type forwards this is probably one of the softest crews I've seen in a while.

Unless the coaching staff is holding the leash tight to prevent penalties, which I could see, they are soft as (frank) in the physicality department. In the games I've seen anyway. Which has been a lot less this season.

I wonder what currently has better odds?
Flyers getting the # 1 pick, or making the playoffs?
- PLindbergh31

Getting the pick because they have a 0.0% likelihood of making the playoffs.

Don't let the actual math fool you, their chances are 0.0%