Hey, thought you would be a fan, since it's based on Vally (former player) watching all the games... but nevermind I guess.
- Tomahawk

My bad, I'll check it out.

Short-term: nice; long-term: useless, and potentially detrimental. Unless people believe there's a chance they make it to the post-season.
- wolfhounds

Finishing dead last in 2007 did absolutely nothing to help the Flyers, through the draft.

See, that isn't what I am saying. If he is better than Rinaldo, then move Rinaldo out.

Every upgrade, however incremental, helps them.
- AllInForFlyers

oh i understand what youre saying.

im just kidding around. at least you guys werent the ones to actually bring the carbomb abomination into the league.

but yeah. even if its not at the nhl level, or if it is, a guy that doesnt have a major impact, just consistently strive to increase the overall product level. okay player X, you might not be enough to crack our NHL roster, but you are definitely better than someone on the farm. with that into consideration, you are being retained in that capacity while pushing someone else out that isnt as useful.

every inch forward overall helps the overall product, and can produce a culture that ripples throughout the cupboards of the organization.

What happened to homer's plan?! it came true!
- JoeRussomanno

What exactly are his duties as "President"? I'd love to know how he's earning that multi-million dollar salary.

You might be a fan of Steve Valiquette's shot-quality project:


- Tomahawk

Really cool video. I enjoyed it a lot. Thanks for sharing..

Remember me getting laid into by a few posters on that Schenn muffin shot from the point with no one in front that I didn't like?

That's a red shot.

Finishing dead last in 2007 did absolutely nothing to help the Flyers, through the draft.
- AllInForFlyers

It takes special people to parlay a 56 point season into a 6th defenseman.

oh i understand what youre saying.

im just kidding around. at least you guys werent the ones to actually bring the carbomb abomination into the league.

but yeah. even if its not at the nhl level, or if it is, a guy that has a major impact, just consistently strive to increase the overall product level. okay player X, you might not be enough to crack our NHL roster, but you are definitely better than someone on the farm. with that into consideration, you are being retained in that capacity while pushing someone else out that isnt as useful.

every inch forward overall helps the overall product, and can produce a culture that ripples throughout the cupboards of the organization.
- stayinthefnnet

Exactly. Strengthen every single place you possibly can.

It takes special people to parlay a 56 point season into a 6th defenseman.
- PLindbergh31

One of the single worst drafts in the modern era, with only one player with elite skill, and even that player had questions about his size.

Being horrific isn't a guarantee of anything at all

Exactly. Strengthen every single place you possibly can.
- AllInForFlyers

and thats why it throws me for such a loop when you see certain guys go through waivers.

you cant tell me that magnus pajaarvi, while he might not come in and be your world beater first line winger, isnt better than SOMEONE within the organizational ranks.

One of the single worst drafts in the modern era, with only one player with elite skill, and even that player had questions about his size.

Being horrific isn't a guarantee of anything at all
- AllInForFlyers

Very true. Game 6 Sharp scoring a goal, and Kane scoring the GWG was more predictable than the sun setting in the West.

See, that is exactly what I am saying. There are no silver bullets, and the NHL is damn near a no-trading league for long stretches.

So you have to do what you can to get better incrementally. If Z2 is better than some guys in the organization, I would hope they find ways to drop the worst guy and bring in the incremental improvement. Maybe he won't make a difference on the NHL roster. But the Flyers need to get better as an organization, and any talent upgrade is welcome, especially since they drafted the guy.
- AllInForFlyers

I hear what you're saying, and I agree with the premise.

Problem is, I'm not sure he's really any better than anybody on an NHL contract, or in LHV, right now. I'm also not sure I'd want to incur the opportunity cost associated with the contract slot and dev/ice time... I'd rather somebody like Alderson get more attention and opportunity to become a player.

Finishing dead last in 2007 did absolutely nothing to help the Flyers, through the draft.
- AllInForFlyers

It could be argued that a) the Flyers kinda got screwed there and b) that's part of the reason the team is where it is today. And 2015 is a better pool of players to select from.

Regardless, we likely won't see completely eye-to-eye on this, but if the Flyers are going to suck and miss the playoffs, I'd prefer they be epic losers and get as high a pick as possible. Mediocrity is boring.

I don't see them getting one of the top 2 picks short of something really bad happening, but they absolutely have 3 to 5 potential. I want that more than any feel-good winning streak.

and thats why it throws me for such a loop when you see certain guys go through waivers.

you cant tell me that magnus pajaarvi, while he might not come in and be your world beater first line winger, isnt better than SOMEONE within the organizational ranks.
- stayinthefnnet

Exactly -- I understand with that player, cap hit is a factor. And cap hit matters.

But are we really saying that player isn't better than a single winger in the Flyers organization? Are we really saying that?

Because that is how I want the Flyers to think. The Phantoms haven't made the AHL playoffs in forever. Why the hell are we married to anyone down there who has a piece of that?

and thats why it throws me for such a loop when you see certain guys go through waivers.

you cant tell me that magnus pajaarvi, while he might not come in and be your world beater first line winger, isnt better than SOMEONE within the organizational ranks.
- stayinthefnnet

Yup. Chris Summers is the most recent example.

I've heard good things about Peaky Blinders....I'll have to add that one.
- johndewar

I just finished Marco Polo. Its very good, but REALLY good if the fact that half of every episode has at least one naked woman on screen appeals to you.

I just finished Marco Polo. Its very good, but REALLY good if the fact that half of every episode has at least one naked woman on screen appeals to you.
- MBFlyerfan

That Marco Polo.....he not only knew how to create cool pool games, but he was a ladies man too.

Being horrific isn't a guarantee of anything at all
- AllInForFlyers

This is true but why is it when any flyers fan mentions tanking it is always pointed out what a complete failure Edmonton's rebuild has been. Why does a Flyers rebuild have to the go the way of Edmonton and not the way Chicago's and LA's did?

Boston is only team to win the Stanley Cup in the last 6 years without tanking. Their championship was build on two elite free agents, Chara and Thomas, and home runs in the 2nd round, Lucic, Bergeron, and Krejci. Is that model more reproducible than the tanking model?

Has anyone seen American Sniper yet?
- MJL

I read the book. Hoping to see movie this weekend as it is was released today in Canada

Exactly -- I understand with that player, cap hit is a factor. And cap hit matters.

But are we really saying that player isn't better than a single winger in the Flyers organization? Are we really saying that?

Because that is how I want the Flyers to think. The Phantoms haven't made the AHL playoffs in forever. Why the hell are we married to anyone down there who has a piece of that?
- AllInForFlyers

and i understand that winning in the minors can be misleading. if you have guys down there that are your career AHLers and are 28 years old and absolutely kill it down there, thats well and good, but it really isnt what the minors are there for. they are supposed to be a place of transition in which the best players usually outgrow the pond and leave.

but at the same time, it is important to have good guys down there, even if they dont go anywhere, if only for the purpose of pushing your prospects to be better and subjecting them to a competitive and winning culture.

I hear what you're saying, and I agree with the premise.

Problem is, I'm not sure he's really any better than anybody on an NHL contract, or in LHV, right now. I'm also not sure I'd want to incur the opportunity cost associated with the contract slot and dev/ice time... I'd rather somebody like Alderson get more attention and opportunity to become a player.
- Tomahawk

I had hopes for Alderson, and believe me, I understand that it takes some guys longer to develop. I'm honestly not saying that the Flyers should jettison every single prospect who isn't lighting it up.

But I am absolutely saying you don't have to keep all of them. Even if you make one move to incrementally improve, that's better than standing pat and having Jason Akeson lead the Phantoms in scoring for the 20th season in a row.

This is true but why is it when any flyers fan mentions tanking it is always pointed out what a complete failure Edmonton's rebuild has been. Why does a Flyers rebuild have to the go the way of Edmonton and not the way Chicago's and LA's did?

Boston is only team to win the Stanley Cup in the last 6 years without tanking. Their championship was build on two elite free agents, Chara and Thomas, and home runs in the 2nd round, Lucic, Bergeron, and Krejci. Is that model more reproducible than the tanking model?
- psuhockey

realistically, probably not. there are definitely many ways to skin a cat, and none of them are surefire locks.

but at the same time, if forced to pick one based entirely on mathematical odds (which admittedly is a shallow basis) you have a much better chance hitting on one or two top 5 picks than you do striking gold in the second three or four times.

let alone landing 2 top free agents to deals that wont sink your team in todays market.


that being said, i still dont think the flyers need to go the tank route.

This is true but why is it when any flyers fan mentions tanking it is always pointed out what a complete failure Edmonton's rebuild has been. Why does a Flyers rebuild have to the go the way of Edmonton and not the way Chicago's and LA's did?

Boston is only team to win the Stanley Cup in the last 6 years without tanking. Their championship was build on two elite free agents, Chara and Thomas, and home runs in the 2nd round, Lucic, Bergeron, and Krejci. Is that model more reproducible than the tanking model?
- psuhockey

It simply points out that tanking is not a guarantee of anything. I don't think you have to tank. I think you can try to compete and build through the draft at the same time.

It simply points out that tanking is not a guarantee of anything. I don't think you have to tank. I think you can try to compete and build through the draft at the same time.
- MJL

i still think this team is maybe one forward away (along with a healthy read), from being able to ice a very damn good top 9.

it has been, and until its addressed in some way shape or form, will always be, the defensive mix.

I had hopes for Alderson, and believe me, I understand that it takes some guys longer to develop. I'm honestly not saying that the Flyers should jettison every single prospect who isn't lighting it up.

But I am absolutely saying you don't have to keep all of them. Even if you make one move to incrementally improve, that's better than standing pat and having Jason Akeson lead the Phantoms in scoring for the 20th season in a row.
- AllInForFlyers

By as early as next season, LHV will be flush with guys like Lindblom, Aube-Kubel, Fazleev, Mike Parks, in addition to the top-end talent that's likely to come through, and the kids like Cousins/Leier/Hagg already down there.

Given all that, signing Z2 could just be adding another guy on an NHL contract that's spending most of his time in Reading, w/ a snowball's chance in hell of moving up the ladder.

This is true but why is it when any flyers fan mentions tanking it is always pointed out what a complete failure Edmonton's rebuild has been. Why does a Flyers rebuild have to the go the way of Edmonton and not the way Chicago's and LA's did?

Boston is only team to win the Stanley Cup in the last 6 years without tanking. Their championship was build on two elite free agents, Chara and Thomas, and home runs in the 2nd round, Lucic, Bergeron, and Krejci. Is that model more reproducible than the tanking model?
- psuhockey

I have always understood your premise in that elite talent wins. I don't dispute that.

But I have sincere doubts that it is always reliable. Yes, it worked for Chicago.

But it's not just Edmonton's rebuild that failed. People will try to point to the Islanders, now that they are winning, but look at what they did -- they had to move picks and prospects left and right to land a goalie and two defensemen. After a decade with one playoff appearance.

It's never as simple as drafting your way out. Brian Campbell and Marian Hossa had to agree to come to Chicago, for example, as free agents. But that never gets talked about.

Tanking isn't reliable because it is not all that has to happen