What even is this argument? Just like bad players have diffrent playing styles, star players have diffrent playing styles. Are you gonna tell me that guys like Getzlaf and Bergeron don't put their bodies on the line for their team? Not every star player is an Ovechkin. Also, are you actually questioning the work ethic of star players? You serious? Guys like Towes and Crosby have INSANE work ethic, probably even better than Craig Adams. That's how they stay so dominant.

- Victoro311

Craig Adams is willing to do anything to help his team win. Do you disagree with that statement?

Toews and Bergeron and the guys you mentioned are one side of the spectrum. Nash and Semin and others are on the other side.

Take Craig Adams' intangibles and put them in Eric Tangradi, and you wouldn't have a 1st round gigantor that at this point is a bust.

Adams is a SCRUB! I don't understand how you can't see this. Blake Comeau is being payed the EXACT SAME as Captain PK and is leagues better than him. I understand that Comeau was a lucky find, but still. Throwing out salary cap does not justify Adams because there is always a better option for the same price. Hell, Klinkhammer was a better option!

- Victoro311

Can't pay people much less than Adams or Comeau. League minimum and all.

Klinkhammer didn't kill penalties.

And there is just no saving your soul if you're gonna put people that analyze stats in the same league as Jimmy Blue who plays HUT on his free time. If you're going to ignore stats just because you have decided you like Craig Adams and the stats prove that he is not a good hockey player, then fine. Its bullpoop pig headedness like that which has lead to some pretty atrocious contracts by the Penguins recently.
- Victoro311

I could care less about Craig Adams' advanced stats. It would be like judging Dan Kreider based on his rushing statistics.

In general, I ignore advanced stats because they're a fatally flawed and poorly used shortcut to understanding what goes on in a hockey game. They tend to either point to things that are blatantly obvious or blatantly wrong.

Nope. Star players typically have been star players all along. They don't have to work like a guy like Adams does, every day, every practice, every shift. They don't have to put their body on the line time and time again to help the team win. And in the case of guys like Rust, Farnham, etc. that some would prefer to play over Adams, those guys do not have the experience to replicate what Adams does in terms of anticipation and making the right play within the system. That's why I made the point that none of us know what goes on in practice or in the film room. We don't know if Rust makes the right reads on game day.

- hardnosed

In all fairness, a lot of guys that were "stars"(or more to the point touted prospects) coming out of juniors end up having to grind it out in the NHL just like Adams. To bring up a prime example I used earlier, Talbot fits that mold. 5th and 3rd in the QMJHL in scoring during his last 2 years and 2 President's Cups. Comeau took a similar path with WHL success prior to being drafted, and for the last several years has been a bottom 6 grinder. Im sure there are a ton of examples of similar paths--touted prospect becomes NHL bottom 6 grinder. Not sure why "working hard" makes Adams special. Im pretty sure most guys who have made it and kept a roster spot in the NHL "work hard".

Agreed x100

My buddy played with Stamkos pre-NHL. He told me Stammer used to ask guys if he could go before them in every drill and would stay after practice daily and do anything possible to get better. That is why the star players are the star players. Yes they are gifted, but it's not like they were handed that contract for nothing. They put in WORK
- znagle

Of course some stars have worked really hard to get where they are. Not what I was trying to say. If Stamkos for example had not worked as hard as he has, he would likely still be in the NHL, he's that talented.

Adams' hard work is the only thing that keeps him in the NHL. That's my point, and that's why two coaching staff have continued to play him despite the fact that he's one of the most untalented players in the NHL.

I'm not sure that's what I was a saying...

At 700K a year, Adams is not a terrible investment or hockey player.

I'm sure next year the $700K will be spent in a wiser fashion
- icedog97

Blake Comeau says otherwise

Craig Adams is willing to do anything to help his team win. Do you disagree with that statement?

Toews and Bergeron and the guys you mentioned are one side of the spectrum. Nash and Semin and others are on the other side.

Take Craig Adams' intangibles and put them in Eric Tangradi, and you wouldn't have a 1st round gigantor that at this point is a bust.



Can't pay people much less than Adams or Comeau. League minimum and all.

Klinkhammer didn't kill penalties.



I could care less about Craig Adams' advanced stats. It would be like judging Dan Kreider based on his rushing statistics.

In general, I ignore advanced stats because they're a fatally flawed and poorly used shortcut to understanding what goes on in a hockey game. They tend to either point to things that are blatantly obvious or blatantly wrong.
- hardnosed

Thank you for agreeing with my point that star players are all diffrent and don't all lump into some mystical "Star Caliber" category where they drift around in lala land and don't work on their trade or play a physical, self-sacrificial game. Now we can move on.

Craig Adams has good work ethic. No one is arguing against that. Yes, if Tangradi, Kassian, and others had Craig Adams' work ethic they probably wouldn't have busted. But to say that Adams has better work ethic than Crosby because the latter is a star is ridiculous. To go even further and say that his work ethic earns him a roster spot is ludicrous. There are some players in the ECHL that probably have just as good a work ethic and no one is even considering giving them a contract. Just a stupid point all around.

You're right about the minimum, but my point isn't that Adams is overpayed and we can get someone cheaper. My point is by the mere virtue of being payed he is overpayed and we can get other league minimum players who are better. See Comeau and just about any other league minimum player. I would even go so far as to pay someone leagues more competent a couple hundred thousands more than keep Adams such as Lee Stempniak and his 900k deal.

Klink was still leagues better at Adams in 5v5 and we have the personnel that makes Adams unnecessary on the PK between Goc, Spaling, Sutter, and others. Give me Klink over Adams.

Blake Comeau says otherwise
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Comeau's situation is markedly different. He's obviously underpaid in comparison to his production this year.

Comeau's situation is markedly different. He's obviously underpaid in comparison to his production this year.
- hardnosed

And Adams is overpaid for his production throughout his career

I am no fan of Adams but I do believe in the intangibles. Not saying that Adams holds these himself but some players do.

A players pain threshold or their ability or willingness to block shots come to mind.

Ryan has said there is no such thing as a penalty kill specialist but the fact is, not every player on a team is willing to block a Weber or Chara slap shot to save a goal. Nor should a team or fan want their best players doing that stuff.

Again, I don't understand why Adams cracks the lineup but he has played a lot of games. Shero and Bylsma liked him but could HCMJ not sit him? He keeps getting sent out there to the tune of 900 games.
- hockeyman666768

Well if you're counting all of Adams intangibles, you better be counting the selfish attitude, poor leader, and potential superstar teammate injure-er.

Secondly, Adams is willing to block shots but is too slow to be effective at it. He's a stick waver who occasionally gets hit with a puck. And of course hes no shorthanded threat.

Thirdly, I think Adams would certainly be on the bench, if not waived, if we just had 13 warm NHL forward bodies. Too many injuries + not enough depth = reasons why Adams would ever see the ice.

But to say that Adams has better work ethic than Crosby because the latter is a star is ridiculous.

- Victoro311

I never said that.

To go even further and say that his work ethic earns him a roster is ludicrous. There are some players in the ECHL that probably have just as good a work ethic and no one is even considering giving them a contract. Just a stupid point all around.

- Victoro311

Then why do you think two coaching staffs have continued to play him night in and night out? His skating? His puck skills? For shootouts?

Klink was still leagues better at Adams in 5v5

- Victoro311

I don't think the coaching staff really cares about 5 on 5 with the 4th line. Goc does nothing well except kill penalties and take faceoffs, Sill is Sill, Adams is Adams. Adams is getting 6 minutes of even strength TOI a night. They don't care.

unnecessary on the PK between Goc, Spaling, Sutter, and others. Give me Klink over Adams.
- Victoro311

Who are the others? Comeau is an okay penalty killer. Kunitz can PK in a pinch. Downie, Perron, Hornqvist and Bennett aren't really PKers. They're what, 2nd in the league? Why mess with that if it's working, just to get a marginally better 5 on 5 guy on the ice for 6 minutes a night?

Agreed x100

My buddy played with Stamkos pre-NHL. He told me Stammer used to ask guys if he could go before them in every drill and would stay after practice daily and do anything possible to get better. That is why the star players are the star players. Yes they are gifted, but it's not like they were handed that contract for nothing. They put in WORK
- znagle

Geno flies under the radar, especially because hes Russian (and occasional pictures with whales and Putin), but he's very dedicated and hardworking when it comes to training and practicing.

Well if you're counting all of Adams intangibles, you better be counting the selfish attitude, poor leader, and potential superstar teammate injure-er.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

How do we know that Johnston and Tocchet aren't grinning like stuffed pigs while Adams is busy raising the intensity of practices? And the poor leadership stuff is all coming from journalists that I've been told not to trust in the past (when it's convenient), so why should I trust them now? Adams teammates haven't chirped up about any problems, in fact they cite his...leadership.

Secondly, Adams is willing to block shots but is too slow to be effective at it. He's a stick waver who occasionally gets hit with a puck. And of course hes no shorthanded threat.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I would have agreed with you last year under the Bylsma system, where the forwards were more aggressive at the points. In Johnston's sit back and react system, Adams is perfect because of his anticipation.

Thirdly, I think Adams would certainly be on the bench, if not waived, if we just had 13 warm NHL forward bodies. Too many injuries + not enough depth = reasons why Adams would ever see the ice.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

If you want to bet whether he'll ride the pine once Hornqvist and Comeau are back, I'm open to it.

Craig Adams is willing to do anything to help his team win. Do you disagree with that statement?



- hardnosed

Revised...

Craig Adams is willing to do anything to maintain an NHL job and salary

Geno flies under the radar, especially because hes Russian (and occasional pictures with whales and Putin), but he's very dedicated and hardworking when it comes to training and practicing.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Is that why the coaching staff told him he needed to work out harder this past offseason?

Here is a fact. TB, Mon and probably the hottest team in the NHL the freaking Rags are fast....way faster than the Penguins. Guys like Adams, Sill and Scuderi are going to be exposed even more so than they currently are in a 7 game series.

As it stands now that 4th line will drag the Penguins under even if Sid, Geno and Flower are playing out of their minds. They cannot keep up especially if the other coach throws a top line out against them. At that point, its 2 minutes of desperate chasing and praying for a whistle.

The line is awful, slow and 2 of the 3 should not be NHL players on a "contending" team.

Comeau's situation is markedly different. He's obviously underpaid in comparison to his production this year.
- hardnosed

What does that have to do with it? The point is you can get much better and more useful players than Adams even at his cheap ass price tag.

Geno flies under the radar, especially because hes Russian (and occasional pictures with whales and Putin), but he's very dedicated and hardworking when it comes to training and practicing.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Probably the greatest picture in history

Is that why the coaching staff told him he needed to work out harder this past offseason?
- hardnosed

I'm not saying he is Rod Brind'amour...just agreeing with the person that said stars work hard too...

Adams is simply taking a roster spot from one of the younger players. Where guys like rust, ebbett, and Farnham can possibly get better with more NHL experience, Adams has been on the decline for quite some time. The PK is all about positioning. Give these players more practice at the PK and they will be more effective due to them being 10xs faster

to me, i see 3 possible reasons for adams behaving like this.

1. He knows that when Comeau and Hornqvist come back, he is likely out of a lineup spot and is trying to do his best to stay in the lineup.

2. He was told to do stuff like this to get the guys going. I feel this is the least likely, but you never know.

3. He just isnt happy with the current situation or especially malkin and is just being a big cry baby about it.

How do we know that Johnston and Tocchet aren't grinning like stuffed pigs while Adams is busy raising the intensity of practices? And the poor leadership stuff is all coming from journalists that I've been told not to trust in the past (when it's convenient), so why should I trust them now? Adams teammates haven't chirped up about any problems, in fact they cite his...leadership.



I would have agreed with you last year under the Bylsma system, where the forwards were more aggressive at the points. In Johnston's sit back and react system, Adams is perfect because of his anticipation.



If you want to bet whether he'll ride the pine once Hornqvist and Comeau are back, I'm open to it.
- hardnosed

No teammate is ever going to tell the media they don't like a teammate. Honestly, its just like the Scuderi comments all over again. WHY would any player publicly say their teammate is an bumhole or not a good player...WHY???

Adams "anticipation" specialty on the PK is so important that its worth letting him attack your $9M superstar?

What are we betting? HockeyBuzzCoins?

I've leafed through the salad of comments and I think some fans are under the misapprehension that it's alright to target players in practice or to deliver questionable hits during a drill. It is not. What I have seen and read regarding the misadventures of Craig Adams would be a penalty in a game. This isn't the way to practice in order to keep a sharp edge on team competitiveness. It's counterproductive and could cost the Penguins more man-games lost.

I think Craig Adams should be suspended by the team much in the same way Montreal had done with Alex Kovalev or Georges Laraque. There's the model for players who aren't performing or are being a distraction. Craig Adams is not important enough to the success of the Penguins to warrant being a distraction save causing injury or animosity in practice.

Here is a fact. TB, Mon and probably the hottest team in the NHL the freaking Rags are fast....way faster than the Penguins. Guys like Adams, Sill and Scuderi are going to be exposed even more so than they currently are in a 7 game series.

As it stands now that 4th line will drag the Penguins under even if Sid, Geno and Flower are playing out of their minds. They cannot keep up especially if the other coach throws a top line out against them. At that point, its 2 minutes of desperate chasing and praying for a whistle.

The line is awful, slow and 2 of the 3 should not be NHL players on a "contending" team.
- Sell My Monkey

The 4th line as it is now ofcourse would get exposed by those teams in a best of 7. But we do have 2 of our top players out right now and when they return the 4th line will get a much needed boost.

Perron Sid Horny
Kunitz Malkin Comeau
Downie Sutter Benett
Spaling Goc Rust/Adams (hopefully Rust because he is a scoring threat)

That 4th line is easily good enough for a cup team. And add to that our defense if healthy is arguably the best in the league.

Letang Martin
Ehrhoff Maata
Depres Scuds

Thats top 4 is pretty impressive.

What does that have to do with it? The point is you can get much better and more useful players than Adams even at his cheap ass price tag.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Two coaching staffs and front offices disagree.

Two coaching staffs and front offices disagree.
- hardnosed

I think the current staff are hamstrung by his 700K counting even if he is in the minors. We are so close to the cap ceiling we simply cannot afford 700K not on the roster.

No teammate is ever going to tell the media they don't like a teammate. Honestly, its just like the Scuderi comments all over again. WHY would any player publicly say their teammate is an bumhole or not a good player...WHY???

- YouMeAndDupuis9

Why would journalists whose performance is about hits not exaggerate and rile people up about someone most fans think shouldn't be on the team?

Like I've said before, none of us really know. Not journalists, not fans. The coaches know, and they choose to employ and play Adams.

Adams "anticipation" specialty on the PK is so important that its worth letting him attack your $9M superstar?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

You'd have to ask Mike Johnston about that. Apparently after the first incident it was. It's Johnston's practice, and it's his decision who plays. If he doesn't like what Adams does in practice, that's his deal, not mine.