Spaling is better than Superstar. And I love me some Superstar.

If I am remembering correctly, this was a while back, the Spaling-Goc-Comeau line played really really well together. It'd be nice to actually be able to roll out 4 lines for the first time in years. Plus, Comeau produced well with Geno. There is absolutely no guarantee that he can produce with Sutter. Downie has already shown he can produce with Sutter. To be fair, Beau's been on that line too and that probably factored heavily into it, but Downie is a surer thing as of now. Plus, with the heart and soul Steve brings to this team, I'd hate to limit his ice time to fourth line minutes.

All that being said, if Comeau can produce better than Downie, go for it. I'm not into playing favorites like other people.
- Victoro311

Agree 100%. Whoever is giving you the most you roll with that guy, regardless of past history. Which is why personally once Comeau comes back, unless Kunitz really turns things around, I would like to see Comeau - Malkin - Bennett. Kunitz can then play down on the 3rd with Sutter and Downie. I really like those lines.

Perron - Crosby - Hornqvist
Comeau - Malkin - Bennett
Kunitz - Sutter - Downie
Spaling - Goc - Rust (would really like Farnham here too, but it seems clear the organization likes Rust more, which I am ok with too)

The conditional draft pick could make the deal in Colorado's eyes, because yeah, I don't think Maxime is on contract for that much longer. Its up within the next two years for sure. I would still do that trade with the pick. Would give us better cap flexibility for next year and give us a guy who can do Spal's job better than Spals. Talbot should have never left. Tyler Kennedy is Satan. Shero is a clown. Beau Bennett is Jesus. There. I think I covered everything.
- Victoro311

Just looked it up--Talbot was a 5yr deal in 2011 so his and Spaling's contracts have the same term left.

There have been worse who have been paid more.

Adams was a 3rd liner (earlier in his career) and now is a 4th line player. He has some versatility and it comes at a cheap price.

He's not expected to do more than that and so with that in mind I have trouble calling him a bad player or a waste of a sweater.
- icedog97

Still a waste of a sweater. I would easily take Farnham over him. Hell, I'd take Farnham over Ebbet too while we're at it. I wonder if there is actually people out there who have actually bought a Craig Adams jersey...

There have been worse who have been paid more.

Adams was a 3rd liner (earlier in his career) and now is a 4th line player. He has some versatility and it comes at a cheap price.

He's not expected to do more than that and so with that in mind I have trouble calling him a bad player or a waste of a sweater.
- icedog97

Ok, I have to ask what exactly his versatility is. Just about the only thing Craig Adams has going for him is PK, which is really overrated because he has the luxury of getting to practice against our PP, you bring in any somewhat sound defensive forward and let them practice against our PP on a daily basis and they will probably turn into a pretty good PKer.

Still a waste of a sweater. I would easily take Farnham over him. Hell, I'd take Farnham over Ebbet too while we're at it. I wonder if there is actually people out there who have actually bought a Craig Adams jersey...
- znagle

Here, here!!! With ya bro!

Not the reason. One of the reasons.

And there's no reason to compare past PK's and this year's PK.

This year's PK is passive and positional. Adams is the perfect fit for that kind of system.
- hardnosed

If I concede he's been a decent PK'r that doesn't preclude him from being judged on the other aspects of his game. He's not a good 5v5 player. Fancy stats or eye test, he can't keep up. His line frequently get's dominated. It can't be debated.

Now he has some kind of rift with the one player who is carrying the team and if reports are correct, he's not exactly a good guy in the locker room. Time to go IMO!

Spaling is better than Superstar. And I love me some Superstar.
- hardnosed

I'm not so sure. Then again, I haven't watched many Avs games recently. Unless he's had a considerable drop off from when he was on the Flyers, I'd still rather have him at 1.7 than Spals at 2.2 even if Spals is marginally better.

Ok, I have to ask what exactly his versatility is. Just about the only thing Craig Adams has going for him is PK, which is really overrated because he has the luxury of getting to practice against our PP, you bring in any somewhat sound defensive forward and let them practice against our PP on a daily basis and they will probably turn into a pretty good PKer.
- PensFan1103

He takes the body...takes faceoffs...kills penalties

He is obviously going to be replaced at some point (probably sooner than later).

Again...we just like to female dog and moan sometimes and it happens more when there are injuries...losses...and a when 4th line player who is losing his job decides to get more physical at practice.

Agree 100%. Whoever is giving you the most you roll with that guy, regardless of past history. Which is why personally once Comeau comes back, unless Kunitz really turns things around, I would like to see Comeau - Malkin - Bennett. Kunitz can then play down on the 3rd with Sutter and Downie. I really like those lines.

Perron - Crosby - Hornqvist
Comeau - Malkin - Bennett
Kunitz - Sutter - Downie
Spaling - Goc - Rust (would really like Farnham here too, but it seems clear the organization likes Rust more, which I am ok with too)
- PensFan1103

We haven't seen much of Kunitz with Malkin this season. I think its too early tell that Comeau is a better option on Malkin's left. I think as far as play styles go, Kunitz/Malkin/Bennett would compliment each other better than Comeau/Malkin/Bennett. However, if Kunitz is only marginally better than Comeau on Geno's left, I'd say bump him down to balance lines, but I don't think that is the case. I still believe Kunitz is a top 3 winger on this team and I'd hesitate to cap his production by limiting him to 3rd line minutes.

His line frequently get's dominated. It can't be debated.
- madmike71

Aside from that shift against the Bruins' top line the other night (geez, Bylsma would have been pilloried for putting not line-matching with the last change there - Johnston matches less than Bylsma), the 4th line has spent a surprising amount of time in the offensive zone this year.

Look, nobody here has any clue as to why Adams plays. We're not at practice. We're not in the film room. From what Johnston and Bylsma before him have said, they like Adams because he does the right thing. He's in the right position. He picks up the right player. He knows what the other team likes to do and adjusts to it. On the PK, he's usually a step ahead of the play in his positioning. It's what it takes to allow him to play, because he obviously doesn't have the speed or skill to stick.

Lots of video game and advanced stats kind of folks hate that fact - that knowing what to do on the ice is almost as important as being talented. But it's simply not something this is going to go away.

There's plenty of good teams out there with offensively challenged 4th liners.

Aside from that shift against the Bruins' top line the other night (geez, Bylsma would have been pilloried for putting not line-matching with the last change there - Johnston matches less than Bylsma), the 4th line has spent a surprising amount of time in the offensive zone this year.

Look, nobody here has any clue as to why Adams plays. We're not at practice. We're not in the film room. From what Johnston and Bylsma before him have said, they like Adams because he does the right thing. He's in the right position. He picks up the right player. He knows what the other team likes to do and adjusts to it. On the PK, he's usually a step ahead of the play in his positioning. It's what it takes to allow him to play, because he obviously doesn't have the speed or skill to stick.

Lots of video game and advanced stats kind of folks hate that fact - that knowing what to do on the ice is almost as important as being talented. But it's simply not something this is going to go away.

There's plenty of good teams out there with offensively challenged 4th liners.
- hardnosed

Ok, you lost me on this. What do video games have to do with Craig Adams being a bad hockey player in every situation other than the PK?

I am no fan of Adams but I do believe in the intangibles. Not saying that Adams holds these himself but some players do.

A players pain threshold or their ability or willingness to block shots come to mind.

Ryan has said there is no such thing as a penalty kill specialist but the fact is, not every player on a team is willing to block a Weber or Chara slap shot to save a goal. Nor should a team or fan want their best players doing that stuff.

Again, I don't understand why Adams cracks the lineup but he has played a lot of games. Shero and Bylsma liked him but could HCMJ not sit him? He keeps getting sent out there to the tune of 900 games.

Ok, you lost me on this. What do video games have to do with Craig Adams being a bad hockey player in every situation other than the PK?
- PensFan1103

I thought the point was made pretty clearly - gamers, fantasy players, and advanced stat aficionados, across many sports, believe that the best teams are constructed simply by compiling as many highly rated players as possible, with little regard to integral things like knowledge of the system, system discipline, anticipation, instincts, willingness to work hard, etc.

I thought the point was made pretty clearly - gamers, fantasy players, and advanced stat aficionados, across many sports, believe that the best teams are constructed simply by compiling as many highly rated players as possible, with little regard to integral things like knowledge of the system, system discipline, anticipation, instincts, willingness to work hard, etc.
- hardnosed

You've missed the point entirely. I'm sure many people given the chance to play would dedicate themselves to those things. That hardly fully qualifies them to suit up for one game let alone 82. There is enough to support the thought that Adams couldn't hack it when people thought he did much less now. It's futile to say otherwise. The only player he should suit up over is Sill and neither of them deserve a uniform anymore.

Cheap doesn't equal good either. Regardless of how much he's paid, he's taking a spot from someone who could do a better job. Comeau comes to mind. Makes under $1M and can slide up the lineup. He was underutilized. Adams has been overutilized.

I thought the point was made pretty clearly - gamers, fantasy players, and advanced stat aficionados, across many sports, believe that the best teams are constructed simply by compiling as many highly rated players as possible, with little regard to integral things like knowledge of the system, system discipline, anticipation, instincts, willingness to work hard, etc.
- hardnosed

This has to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever read. First of all what is wrong with compiling as many highly rated players as possible? Because in reality, most of those highly rated players are going to have those same tools you listed. The only thing that prevents teams from doing exactly that is the salary cap, otherwise that would be every teams plan. Nobody thinks you can build a team like you can in a video game or a fantasy team, and if there are those types of people, comparing people who like to use logical information (Advanced Stats) to analyze a player to them is ignorant at best.

Adams has probably played the most games than any other player on the roster the past 5 years. Cut the guy a break.

Adams has probably played the most games than any other player on the roster the past 5 years. Cut the guy a break.
- kgrpitt

"Yeah, you're right"

Not the reason. One of the reasons.

And there's no reason to compare past PK's and this year's PK.

This year's PK is passive and positional. Adams is the perfect fit for that kind of system.
- hardnosed

the reason is because of scuderi

I didn't have an issue with Craig Adams. He's a fourth line guy who does fourth line things. No overly effective but he plays his role. But if he is going to continue attempting to fight Malkin and run skill guys into the boards at practice perhaps it's time for him to be a permanent fixture in the press box.


And don't give me this poop about keeping guys on their toes. They are in the (frank)ing NHL. They know they are going to get hit.

I didn't have an issue with Craig Adams. He's a fourth line guy who does fourth line things. No overly effective but he plays his role. But if he is going to continue attempting to fight Malkin and run skill guys into the boards at practice perhaps it's time for him to be a permanent fixture in the press box.


And don't give me this poop about keeping guys on their toes. They are in the (frank)ing NHL. They know they are going to get hit.
- Ben37

Yeah but this is the Pittsburgh Penguins. Our 4th line players are expected to put up 20g each, be 2 way players, drive possession, have really fancy charts and take a 50% pay cut just for the privilege to play here. (sarcasm)

First of all what is wrong with compiling as many highly rated players as possible?
- PensFan1103

Nothing. It's fans' expectation to have four lines full of top 6 players that is unrealistic.

Because in reality, most of those highly rated players are going to have those same tools you listed.
- PensFan1103

Nope. Star players typically have been star players all along. They don't have to work like a guy like Adams does, every day, every practice, every shift. They don't have to put their body on the line time and time again to help the team win. And in the case of guys like Rust, Farnham, etc. that some would prefer to play over Adams, those guys do not have the experience to replicate what Adams does in terms of anticipation and making the right play within the system. That's why I made the point that none of us know what goes on in practice or in the film room. We don't know if Rust makes the right reads on game day.

The only thing that prevents teams from doing exactly that is the salary cap.
- PensFan1103

And the NHL has a salary cap. Like I said, folks want a team of All-Stars and that's simply not possible.

Nobody thinks you can build a team like you can in a video game or a fantasy team, and if there are those types of people, comparing people who like to use logical information (Advanced Stats) to analyze a player to them is ignorant at best.
- PensFan1103

All three have about as much basis in reality. At least in video games, shots have not surpassed goals in terms of perceived importance.

And one more point - where is the Johnston hate regarding this? Lots of folks last year cited Bylsma playing Adams as a reason to fire him. Where are the pictchforks for Johnston?

And why can't Johnston control a practice? And why is he setting up physical confrontations via in-season battle drills and the like?
- hardnosed

Great point.

Nothing. It's fans' expectation to have four lines full of top 6 players that is unrealistic.



Nope. Star players typically have been star players all along. They don't have to work like a guy like Adams does, every day, every practice, every shift. They don't have to put their body on the line time and time again to help the team win. And in the case of guys like Rust, Farnham, etc. that some would prefer to play over Adams, those guys do not have the experience to replicate what Adams does in terms of anticipation and making the right play within the system. That's why I made the point that none of us know what goes on in practice or in the film room. We don't know if Rust makes the right reads on game day.



And the NHL has a salary cap. Like I said, folks want a team of All-Stars and that's simply not possible.



All three have about as much basis in reality. At least in video games, shots have not surpassed goals in terms of perceived importance.
- hardnosed

What even is this argument? Just like bad players have diffrent playing styles, star players have diffrent playing styles. Are you gonna tell me that guys like Getzlaf and Bergeron don't put their bodies on the line for their team? Not every star player is an Ovechkin. Also, are you actually questioning the work ethic of star players? You serious? Guys like Towes and Crosby have INSANE work ethic, probably even better than Craig Adams. That's how they stay so dominant.

Adams is a SCRUB! I don't understand how you can't see this. Blake Comeau is being payed the EXACT SAME as Captain PK and is leagues better than him. I understand that Comeau was a lucky find, but still. Throwing out salary cap does not justify Adams because there is always a better option for the same price. Hell, Klinkhammer was a better option! And you can't tell me there aren't more Robby Klinks out there.

And there is just no saving your soul if you're gonna put people that analyze stats in the same league as Jimmy Blue who plays HUT on his free time. If you're going to ignore stats just because you have decided you like Craig Adams and the stats prove that he is not a good hockey player, then fine. Its bullpoop pig headedness like that which has lead to some pretty atrocious contracts by the Penguins recently.

What even is this argument? Just like bad players have diffrent playing styles, star players have diffrent playing styles. Are you gonna tell me that guys like Getzlaf and Bergeron don't put their bodies on the line for their team? Not every star player is an Ovechkin. Also, are you actually questioning the work ethic of star players? You serious? Guys like Towes and Crosby have INSANE work ethic, probably even better than Craig Adams. That's how they stay so dominant.

Adams is a SCRUB! I don't understand how you can't see this. Blake Comeau is being payed the EXACT SAME as Captain PK and is leagues better than him. I understand that Comeau was a lucky find, but still. Throwing out salary cap does not justify Adams because there is always a better option for the same price. Hell, Klinkhammer was a better option!

And there is just no saving your soul if you're gonna put people that analyze stats in the same league as Jimmy Blue who plays HUT on his free time. If you're going to ignore stats just because you have decided you like Craig Adams and the stats prove that he is not a good hockey player, then fine. Its bullpoop pig headedness like that which has lead to some pretty atrocious contracts by the Penguins recently.
- Victoro311

Agreed x100

My buddy played with Stamkos pre-NHL. He told me Stammer used to ask guys if he could go before them in every drill and would stay after practice daily and do anything possible to get better. That is why the star players are the star players. Yes they are gifted, but it's not like they were handed that contract for nothing. They put in WORK