I'm really not understanding this idea of playing Spaling in the top 6 over Kunitz. I know Kunitz has definitely lost a step, but at least he once was a viable top 6 option and I have to believe he still has some of that. Spaling has never been a viable top 6 option. He has gotten such an extended look up there it is ridiculous. The only thing I can think of is that they are desperately trying to showcase him in the hopes somebody takes him off the Pens hands.
- PensFan1103

I think Spaling is just a placeholder for now. With both Hornqvist and Comeau out, I wouldn't put much stock in the line combinations.

I think MJ is just trying things out... For years, we wanted Bylsma to be more flexible and trying different combinations that never happened, now were are complaining about Johnston doing it.

I'll withhold judgement until like mid March, when things start leading up to the playoffs.

I don't like Spaling, but I like guys like him or Rust or Downie getting some games with Sid or Malkin during the regular season. So, in the playoffs if an injury happens and they get put up there for a couple of periods or a game, they don't spend that time standing around watching. They'll be more comfortable out there.

Yeah, I have no problem with Kunitz playing with Malkin. I just don't understand the logic behind putting him with Sutter like they did on Saturday and looks like they plan on staying with tomorrow.
- PensFan1103

Me either. Kunitz should be a lock with Sid or malkin. i understand you want depth, but you don't drop Kunitz to the 3rd for depth since it makes the top 6 worse

Without even reading this blog I'm going to guess according to you no he's not because you hate him and you have some blotches on a graph to prove it? Not like you to say something nice.

I think Spaling is just a placeholder for now. With both Hornqvist and Comeau out, I wouldn't put much stock in the line combinations.

I think MJ is just trying things out... For years, we wanted Bylsma to be more flexible and trying different combinations that never happened, now were are complaining about Johnston doing it.

I'll withhold judgement until like mid March, when things start leading up to the playoffs.

I don't like Spaling, but I like guys like him or Rust or Downie getting some games with Sid or Malkin during the regular season. So, in the playoffs if an injury happens and they get put up there for a couple of periods or a game, they don't spend that time standing around watching. They'll be more comfortable out there.
- rival22

Great point! I have no problem with HCMJ doing some experimenting. I think change can keep the players focused.

At least if a player goes down you'll have players that have some understanding of how to play with his new line mates.

This is a game changer as far as advanced statistics go:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...acking-for-all-star-game/

"That would see computer chips placed in the sweaters of each player, plus the puck, to chart what is happening on the ice. As a result, everything from how fast and far a player skates to how hard he shoots and positions himself would be measured in real time."

Instead of charting stuff like possession purely based on shots or whatever, you could see real data on things like how often a puck gets out of the defensive zone when Player A gets it, or exactly how fast Player B gets the puck to the offensive zone, or true turnover or hit stats, not based on some subjective stat guy.

With every player mapped out, you can also tell how often a player (like Scuderi ) gives his defensive partner the puck when he's covered lol

This is a game changer as far as advanced statistics go:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...acking-for-all-star-game/


Instead of charting stuff like possession purely based on shots or whatever, you could see real data on things like how often a puck gets out of the defensive zone when Player A gets it, or exactly how fast Player B gets the puck to the offensive zone, or true turnover or hit stats, not based on some subjective stat guy.

With every player mapped out, you can also tell how often a player (like Scuderi ) gives his defensive partner the puck when he's covered lol
- rival22

it is a nerds wet dream

Great point! I have no problem with HCMJ doing some experimenting. I think change can keep the players focused.

At least if a player goes down you'll have players that have some understanding of how to play with his new line mates.
- madmike71

Trying different things out is great, especially with all of these injuries, but it seems like once the injuries started Spaling was planted on those top two lines and others were rotated into the other positions as opposed to Spaling being a part of that experimental rotation.

Now I will admit I hate the guy, it grinds my gears everytime I see him on the ice, so maybe it just seems like he is being given more opportunities than others to me.

it is a nerds wet dream
- usethe1-2-2

I think that it has some cool mainstream potential though, especially during TV broadcasts... We can see exactly how hard Ehrhoff's shot from the point was the other night (or what defenseman has the hardest average shot on the power play or whatever).

You can see how fast a player is skating on a backcheck... like those times when Letang is caught in deep, but somehow catches up to the opposing forward, you can see how much faster he actually was skating.

I hate fancy stats and graphs. It's nice when they support what you have been thinking. I got flamed for saying sutter was expendable a few weeks ago. Looking at those numbers kind of confirms that. although 18 goals from our 3c is pretty good number. My position hasn't changed I'd trade him if the right move presented itself.

I think that it has some cool mainstream potential though, especially during TV broadcasts... We can see exactly how hard Ehrhoff's shot from the point was the other night (or what defenseman has the hardest average shot on the power play or whatever).

You can see how fast a player is skating on a backcheck... like those times when Letang is caught in deep, but somehow catches up to the opposing forward, you can see how much faster he actually was skating.
- rival22

That would interest me

Trying different things out is great, especially with all of these injuries, but it seems like once the injuries started Spaling was planted on those top two lines and others were rotated into the other positions as opposed to Spaling being a part of that experimental rotation.

Now I will admit I hate the guy, it grinds my gears everytime I see him on the ice, so maybe it just seems like he is being given more opportunities than others to me.
- PensFan1103

I agree about Spaling, however I can't get too worked up over where some of these guys are slotted in December and January. Especially with all of the injuries. At one point, we had 1 healthy top 6 wing.

I'm not a fan of Spaling either. His stick is where offense goes to die. He's got 4th liner written all over him and he's being paid too much for that role.

Ryan, interesting blog. I have a sincere question based in practicality: Who do you replace Sutter with if you trade him? The answer CANNOT be Marcel Goc. Goc is fine as a 4th line player in limited minutes, but he has shown zero indication that he can handle the 3rd line role, which MUST include some component of secondary scoring on the resume. Goc arguably has provided less offensive contribution than any forwards on the team who see the number of minutes he gets. I know Goc makes about a 3rd of what Sutter does, but at some point you need to consider raw production.We all know how Ryan feels about Spaling, and FWIW, I agree he's a 4th liner as well. From what we've seen during all these injuries, there is no one ready at WBS to take on a 3rd line role. Therefore, Sutter remains the best option this year, and very likely next year as well. I don't think he's God's gift to anything, but debating how much better he is or is not playing is pretty much a moot point when no realistic option exists on the roster or at WBS to take his minutes as a replacement.

I agree about Spaling, however I can't get too worked up over where some of these guys are slotted in December and January. Especially with all of the injuries. At one point, we had 1 healthy top 6 wing.

I'm not a fan of Spaling either. His stick is where offense goes to die. He's got 4th liner written all over him and he's being paid too much for that role.
- madmike71

I agree, at the end of the day if Spaling spends two months in the top 6 but is relegated back to the bottom 6, preferably 4th line, as we approach playoffs and into the playoffs, then yeah, water under the bridge, no big deal. My concern is that Johnston likes his game and he doesn't come down from there. That is hard to imagine once Hornqvist and Comeau come back, but you just never know.

Ryan, interesting blog. I have a sincere question based in practicality: Who do you replace Sutter with if you trade him? The answer CANNOT be Marcel Goc. Goc is fine as a 4th line player in limited minutes, but he has shown zero indication that he can handle the 3rd line role, which MUST include some component of secondary scoring on the resume. Goc arguably has provided less offensive contribution than any forwards on the team who see the number of minutes he gets. I know Goc makes about a 3rd of what Sutter does, but at some point you need to consider raw production.We all know how Ryan feels about Spaling, and FWIW, I agree he's a 4th liner as well. From what we've seen during all these injuries, there is no one ready at WBS to take on a 3rd line role. Therefore, Sutter remains the best option this year, and very likely next year as well. I don't think he's God's gift to anything, but debating how much better he is or is not playing is pretty much a moot point when no realistic option exists on the roster or at WBS to take his minutes as a replacement.
- Emperor Filonius

agree with this 100 percent. no, he isnt the best thing going. he isnt what staal was. but still, i know you can show the numbers saying whatever, but he is at least competent. there are some games in which he has been the best forward on the ice. i love goc as the fourth line center, but there is no way he has that ability to do that for stretches, regardless of who he is flanked by.

18 goals is a fine number for a third line center when your first two make 9 million a year. right now, there really is no alternative. i cant see a deal in which it actually makes the pens better in shipping him out.

unless the team somehow grabs vermette, which i think would end up being too costly, i think they should hold onto him.

Without even reading this blog I'm going to guess according to you no he's not because you hate him and you have some blotches on a graph to prove it? Not like you to say something nice.
- Dcoms

I will say it again, all of these other players are playing "better" away from sutter because most of them are also playing with Sid and geno. Are you really expecting Kunitz, Hornqvist, comeau, dupuis, or bennett to have better numbers with sutter than malkin or sid? These stats are pretty much comparing sutter to sid and geno

agree with this 100 percent. no, he isnt the best thing going. he isnt what staal was. but still, i know you can show the numbers saying whatever, but he is at least competent. there are some games in which he has been the best forward on the ice. i love goc as the fourth line center, but there is no way he has that ability to do that for stretches, regardless of who he is flanked by.

18 goals is a fine number for a third line center when your first two make 9 million a year. right now, there really is no alternative. i cant see a deal in which it actually makes the pens better in shipping him out.

unless the team somehow grabs vermette, which i think would end up being too costly, i think they should hold onto him.
- stayinthefnnet

I feel the same. JR was able to trade for Perron while keeping his defensemen plus Sutter. If they were to make another trade he can deal from a position of depth instead of trading away Sutter. Sutter is fine where he is. Next season he could explore in dealing him but right now the team is better with Sutter on it. Sure he should listen to any offers but I don't see a good reason to get rid of him.

I will say it again, all of these other players are playing "better" away from sutter because most of them are also playing with Sid and geno. Are you really expecting Kunitz, Hornqvist, comeau, dupuis, or bennett to have better numbers with sutter than malkin or sid? These stats are pretty much comparing sutter to sid and geno
- drummer829

That is actually a really good point. Unless you are looking at a guy who has played the vast majority of his time on only the 3rd & 4th line, Crosby/Malkin skew the equation.

I will say it again, all of these other players are playing "better" away from sutter because most of them are also playing with Sid and geno. Are you really expecting Kunitz, Hornqvist, comeau, dupuis, or bennett to have better numbers with sutter than malkin or sid? These stats are pretty much comparing sutter to sid and geno
- drummer829

He already says that in the blog....

"Now in the spirit of fairness the likelihood that those players are with Crosby or Malkin is high so that certainly is an important variable to remember. However, the middle bar which shows Sutter away from all those teammates is under 50% on each one, that isn’t good. None of the defensemen reach a CF% of 50% when playing with Sutter. That just isn’t good enough."

Ryan, interesting blog. I have a sincere question based in practicality: Who do you replace Sutter with if you trade him? The answer CANNOT be Marcel Goc. Goc is fine as a 4th line player in limited minutes, but he has shown zero indication that he can handle the 3rd line role, which MUST include some component of secondary scoring on the resume. Goc arguably has provided less offensive contribution than any forwards on the team who see the number of minutes he gets. I know Goc makes about a 3rd of what Sutter does, but at some point you need to consider raw production.We all know how Ryan feels about Spaling, and FWIW, I agree he's a 4th liner as well. From what we've seen during all these injuries, there is no one ready at WBS to take on a 3rd line role. Therefore, Sutter remains the best option this year, and very likely next year as well. I don't think he's God's gift to anything, but debating how much better he is or is not playing is pretty much a moot point when no realistic option exists on the roster or at WBS to take his minutes as a replacement.
- Emperor Filonius

+1

That is actually a really good point. Unless you are looking at a guy who has played the vast majority of his time on only the 3rd & 4th line, Crosby/Malkin skew the equation.
- rival22

I'd be more interested in his stats against other 3rd line centers around the league. I think that would give me more perspective

He already says that in the blog....

"Now in the spirit of fairness the likelihood that those players are with Crosby or Malkin is high so that certainly is an important variable to remember. However, the middle bar which shows Sutter away from all those teammates is under 50% on each one, that isn’t good. None of the defensemen reach a CF% of 50% when playing with Sutter. That just isn’t good enough."
- madmike71

Then he admits the graphs are utterly useless. You can't reallly compare him to goc because: 1) he doesn't get enough ice time and 2) he doesn't play with most of those players ever.

he also doesn't show any of those percentage of zone starts, so it's possible that sutter is starting in the defensive zone more times than not. There's also a chance sutter is being used against the other teams top lines. There's WAY too many variables at play here to take these graphs seriously.

I'd be more interested in his stats against other 3rd line centers around the league. I think that would give me more perspective
- dbell646

That's what I was thinking, but somw teams have much better 3rd line wingers while others are just crap

I'd be more interested in his stats against other 3rd line centers around the league. I think that would give me more perspective
- dbell646

especially when you consider the fact that this team is not going to be able to afford a cream of the crop third line center, with the top two making so much, and a 7 million dollar defender to boot.

now, when the time comes to resign him, and he wants a hefty raise, then he will outprice his usefulness.

Did you guys see the Sledge hockey thing that Gatorade did with Crosby, Giroux, Hartnell, MacKinnon, Couture and Miller? Just great stuff...



There are a couple other video's on GatoradeCanada's channel including one that focuses more on the NHL players' side.
- rival22

That's not Claude Giroux. There's no obsessive ass grabbing.

That's not Claude Giroux. There's no obsessive ass grabbing.
- jmatchett383

We didn't see him in the locker room