I think so, to a minor extent. Given the mistakes being made by the so-called good defensive players, I'd like to see MDZ or Colaiacovo get a shot and see what they can bring.

If it makes a difference, great. The Flyers find a guy who they can re-sign and plug in who can be solid. If not, well, it's no big deal. It's a lost season. At least you get a better view of what you have and if it's worth signing a guy to a new deal
- Jsaquella

I don't know. The guys you'd bench for them have multi-year deals, how are we going to expect Hexy to trade them if their scratched? CC shouldn't play at all. The guy is a 3rd pairing defender and if you want to see MDZ fine but Luke Schenn is coming out and he's lately been playing to a level where maybe they could get a late round pick for him.

All these guys we're talking about are just too inconsistent and we should be looking at anyway possible to move on from them.

True, but Stolarz & Alt aren't top shelf guys. Neither are Straka, Leier or Cousins. They have some good depth guys there, and stability is a good thing, but at the same time there's a finite window on MDZ & Colaiacovo.
- Jsaquella

I don't think Hagg should be considered a "top shelf" guy either. He has the tools to be, but that's only part of the battle. If you have the world's greatest hammer, but no arms, you'll have a tough time driving a nail.

I don't know. The guys you'd bench for them have multi-year deals, how are we going to expect Hexy to trade them if their scratched? CC shouldn't play at all. The guy is a 3rd pairing defender and if you want to see MDZ fine but Luke Schenn is coming out and he's lately been playing to a level where maybe they could get a late round pick for him.

All these guys we're talking about are just too inconsistent and we should be looking at anyway possible to move on from them.
- Just5

TRADE ALL OF THE PLAYERS FOR THE OTHER PLAYERS!

Seriously, I agree that moving out 1-2 defenders to open spots is wise, but moving our entire defense is one large dump is a recipe for disaster.

I would have fired Berube weeks ago. I'm sure the Flyers could find a suitable replacement for 40 games even if Murray stayed put.
- PhillySportsGuy

Sure, they could probably run out and hire Deboer or Bylsma tomorrow. But I want to wait until spring or summer to hire a full time replacement. If you tie yourself to Bylsma, he's your guy, no matter who else becomes available/interested.

That's not necessarily bad, but it is limiting.

I don't know. The guys you'd bench for them have multi-year deals, how are we going to expect Hexy to trade them if their scratched? CC shouldn't play at all. The guy is a 3rd pairing defender and if you want to see MDZ fine but Luke Schenn is coming out and he's lately been playing to a level where maybe they could get a late round pick for him.

All these guys we're talking about are just too inconsistent and we should be looking at anyway possible to move on from them.
- Just5

They can bench Schultz, or even rotate them in and out. Doesn't have to be burying a guy in the press box, that's part of the problem I have with Berube's approach.

One game bench Schultz & Schenn, next game bench Grossmann & Colaiacovo...I'm not advocating burying anybody.

Sure, they could probably run out and hire Deboer or Bylsma tomorrow. But I want to wait until spring or summer to hire a full time replacement. If you tie yourself to Bylsma, he's your guy, no matter who else becomes available/interested.

That's not necessarily bad, but it is limiting.
- Jsaquella

If they could hire DB right now, I'd go with it.

TRADE ALL OF THE PLAYERS FOR THE OTHER PLAYERS!

Seriously, I agree that moving out 1-2 defenders to open spots is wise, but moving our entire defense is one large dump is a recipe for disaster.
- jmatchett383

If you mean other players in the form of draft picks then yes!

I didn't say entire defense just most of it, and disaster sounds enticing, at least it's different from Holmer's black plague

I don't think Hagg should be considered a "top shelf" guy either. He has the tools to be, but that's only part of the battle. If you have the world's greatest hammer, but no arms, you'll have a tough time driving a nail.
- jmatchett383

I do. He's got the talent to be a top 4 guy. He has all the skills to do it. He's got work to do, but he could end up being the best of the "big 4"

I do. He's got the talent to be a top 4 guy. He has all the skills to do it. He's got work to do, but he could end up being the best of the "big 4"
- Jsaquella

No, he has the tools. Part of the "talent" is motivation and hockey smarts. He's got the physical tools, but is still raw as hell.

They can bench Schultz, or even rotate them in and out. Doesn't have to be burying a guy in the press box, that's part of the problem I have with Berube's approach.

One game bench Schultz & Schenn, next game bench Grossmann & Colaiacovo...I'm not advocating burying anybody.
- Jsaquella

I'm not a hockey coach. But I thought Berube was kind of doing that when he was spinning the wheel recently

I wouldn't bench Schultz, the way he's played he could be very desirable at the TDL with the deal he's on. And by very desirable I mean a 3rd rd pick

Nonsense, this can't be. He's horrible at everything and should be dumped for a 7th ASAP.
- jmatchett383

That is some nice ammo for Hexy at the deadline breaking out a stat like that.

If you mean other players in the form of draft picks then yes!

I didn't say entire defense just most of it, and disaster sounds enticing, at least it's different from Holmer's black plague
- Just5

So, what, 5 of the 8? 6/7? Seriously, trading away your vets and throwing your kids to the wolves is not a recipe for good development and long-term success.

That is some nice ammo for Hexy at the deadline breaking out a stat like that.
- Just5

It absolutely is. But I remember about 50% of this board calling for him to be discarded as early as can be.

I'm not a hockey coach. But I thought Berube was kind of doing that when he was spinning the wheel recently

I wouldn't bench Schultz, the way he's played he could be very desirable at the TDL with the deal he's on. And by very desirable I mean a 3rd rd pick
- Just5

What wheel has he spun? MDZ and Colaiacovo have been in the press box for 10+ games. That's burying a guy.

Schultz has exceeded expectations. I doubt many teams give up a ton for him, he's still not exactly much more than a 3rd pair guy

Its crazy to me..

They preach puck movement, transitioning from offense to defense. They talk about puck possession. Yet the defense is plagued with guys who completely lack puck skills.

MDZ was having himself a decent year until the injury/ couple games after, but the kid hasn't even sniffed a chance to reprise that role.

He is unique on our blue line.

It absolutely is. But I remember about 50% of this board calling for him to be discarded as early as can be.
- jmatchett383

No doubt about.. and I was a main culprit. It was more like 95%, and I believe I can recall a few convo's with you included.

He has played decent, simple hockey, which is night and day from where he was in the pre-season. He still is a 7th d-man on most teams though, and that is definitely something that needs to be remembered when talking about trading him.

I do. He's got the talent to be a top 4 guy. He has all the skills to do it. He's got work to do, but he could end up being the best of the "big 4"
- Jsaquella

I think Sanheim is gonna be the guy that ends up leaving us most impressed.

The good news is that they have something that looks good on defense brewing.

So, what, 5 of the 8? 6/7? Seriously, trading away your vets and throwing your kids to the wolves is not a recipe for good development and long-term success.
- jmatchett383

You can't trade all of them. If you can trade Coburn, you probably keep Grossman. If you can trade Macdonald, you keep Streit, etc.

Your not going to trade them all but every one of them should be on the table except Streit.

The team needs picks and future assets. We all have seen the kind of D we can bring in on the cheap in Schultz and MDZ with a patient Hexy in UFA, they are basically on the same level as out big $$$ guys. Get picks now, worry about the D this summer.

They can bench Schultz, or even rotate them in and out. Doesn't have to be burying a guy in the press box, that's part of the problem I have with Berube's approach.

One game bench Schultz & Schenn, next game bench Grossmann & Colaiacovo...I'm not advocating burying anybody.
- Jsaquella

This is more of what I'd like to see.

Coburn Schultz as a top pair isn't so good you can't break it up a game or two.

I'd leave Luke in mainly because he's righty.

I think if Ghost didn't wreck his knee we'd be seeing a little more of him too in the 2nd half of the season.

What wheel has he spun? MDZ and Colaiacovo have been in the press box for 10+ games. That's burying a guy.

Schultz has exceeded expectations. I doubt many teams give up a ton for him, he's still not exactly much more than a 3rd pair guy
- Jsaquella

The scratch wheel. I guess it has calmed down recently.

I think Schultz got a 4th or 5th rounder last year at the deadline on his 3.5 cap hit deal.

He has prob shown better play on the ice this year at $1.25. That's an intriguing cap number that many teams could fit for the play he is bringing.

I think Sanheim is gonna be the guy that ends up leaving us most impressed.

The good news is that they have something that looks good on defense brewing.
- jak521

I agree on Sanheim. But Hagg has all the tools to b a special player.

The scratch wheel. I guess it has calmed down recently.

I think Schultz got a 4th or 5th rounder last year at the deadline on his 3.5 cap hit deal.

He has prob shown better play on the ice this year at $1.25. That's an intriguing cap number that many teams could fit for the play he is bringing.
- Just5

Schultz got Edmonton a 5th rounder.

I'd be open to trade any of the current group of D, even Streit. maybe especially Streit, because he's got a lot of value. They may need to wait another season to move guys like Grossmann or Schenn, but I'd definitely have the scratch wheel moving more frequently than Berube has.

Schultz got Edmonton a 5th rounder.

I'd be open to trade any of the current group of D, even Streit. maybe especially Streit, because he's got a lot of value. They may need to wait another season to move guys like Grossmann or Schenn, but I'd definitely have the scratch wheel moving more frequently than Berube has.
- Jsaquella

Schultz should get us way better than a 5th.

Last year he had 4 pts (0 goals), was a minus player albeit on a crappy team at a 3.5 cap hit.

He already has double the points in half the games, is a +8, and his deal is $1.25. He's proven to be top 4 quality before in his career.

We'll do better

Schultz should get us way better than a 5th.

Last year he had 4 pts (0 goals), was a minus player albeit on a crappy team at a 3.5 cap hit.

He already has double the points in half the games, is a +8, and his deal is $1.25. He's proven to be top 4 quality before in his career.

We'll do better
- Just5

I'm fine with trading him, do it now and get the pick and get Del Zotto back in.

This is more of what I'd like to see.

Coburn Schultz as a top pair isn't so good you can't break it up a game or two.

I'd leave Luke in mainly because he's righty.

I think if Ghost didn't wreck his knee we'd be seeing a little more of him too in the 2nd half of the season.
- Marc D

With a grand 8-10 minutes a game and the occasional healthy scratch?

That's what happened before injury.