He is cheaper to retain than Tanner Glass. I'll hold on to Bennett thank you
- usethe1-2-2

You have to hold onto him at this point, my question for everyone was at what point do you call him a bust. He has talent no doubt but he has missed significant time in both years at college and the whole time as a penguin.
You can call it bad luck or whatever other label you want to put on it. He is a RFA at the end of the year. Do you really want to throw more money at this guy?

Letang-Maatta?
- Victoro311

Eventually. Not yet. Maatta still has a ways to go.

You have to hold onto him at this point, my question for everyone was at what point do you call him a bust. He has talent no doubt but he has missed significant time in both years at college and the whole time as a penguin.
You can call it bad luck or whatever other label you want to put on it. He is a RFA at the end of the year. Do you really want to throw more money at this guy?
- all-pgh

It's semantics, but I'd never call someone with injury issues a bust. Busts are guys who can't play. Bennett can play, he's just had a series of unfortunate events that have delayed his development.

I mean, dude just turned 23.

I can tell you that not too many people from this side of PA lacked respect for Ronnie "Franchise". I saw a lot of him and maybe he wasnt appreciated because he was so consistent night in /night out that he didn't appear to elevate his game like 66 & 68 did. Instead, his game was already at such a high level that there was not too much room to improve. I liked him on the Whalers and always wanted him on the Flyers. Question to Pens fans: Was that not the single most important trade in the Pens franchise history?
- BOSS_TWEED

Definitely the best trade followed closely by the Douglass Murray deal.

It's semantics, but I'd never call someone with injury issues a bust. Busts are guys who can't play. Bennett can play, he's just had a series of unfortunate events that have delayed his development.

I mean, dude just turned 23.
- hardnosed

To me bust means someone who doesn't live up to expectations regardless of the reasons.

I can tell you that not too many people from this side of PA lacked respect for Ronnie "Franchise". I saw a lot of him and maybe he wasnt appreciated because he was so consistent night in /night out that he didn't appear to elevate his game like 66 & 68 did. Instead, his game was already at such a high level that there was not too much room to improve. I liked him on the Whalers and always wanted him on the Flyers. Question to Pens fans: Was that not the single most important trade in the Pens franchise history?
- BOSS_TWEED

I would have to say yes, because it netted them not only a hall of fame center, but also not only one, but TWO defensemen who would provide a huge physical presence (Ulfie and Jennings). Lots of people forget that Grant Jennings was a solid bottom pairing defenseman on that 91 team.

That said, I'd argue that a close second would be getting Tom Barrasso for Doug Bodger and Darrin Shannon. He was kind of a douche so he doesn't get as much love as other memebers of the 91/92 teams, but the Pens don't win a cup without him.

That said, I'd argue that a close second would be getting Tom Barrasso for Doug Bodger and Darrin Shannon. He was kind of a douche so he doesn't get as much love as other memebers of the 91/92 teams, but the Pens don't win a cup without him.
- Emperor Filonius

I had an incredible interaction with Barrasso and his family when I worked at Kennywood. It was while his daughter was very sick, and I did something nice for her, and he went out of his way to pay that kindness back.

But I did always hear that he was abrasive.

Here's the issue I have with Ryan's premise. Although in theory, I like Malkin and Sutter playing together in the short term, do we REALLY want to ask the guy who is carrying the team and tearing up the league to switch positions? You want Sutter to play wing instead? Fine by me, but don't mess with Geno.

Beyond that, you can count me amongst the crew that does not understand the love affair with Marcel Goc as some sort of like kind replacement for Sutter. I like the guy fine as a very solid 4th line player, and PK guy, but nothing I have seen of him, nor nothing in his career stats indicate to me that he has anything approaching the offensive puck skills that Sutter has....I just don't see it, and yes, I know he's playing with boat anchors on the 4th line. If you move Sutter up, the 3rd line is not nearly as dynamic, and the 4th line...uggh.

I had an incredible interaction with Barrasso and his family when I worked at Kennywood. It was while his daughter was very sick, and I did something nice for her, and he went out of his way to pay that kindness back.

But I did always hear that he was abrasive.
- hardnosed

That's nice to hear. I've heard both positive stories like yours and negative ones as well. I think he was just a polarizing kind of guy.

That's what I was thinking, what would he return though? I mean.. we did pay 2 seconds for douglas murray who was their worst defender..

Also who gets moved for forwards then if we already moved martin for a pick/picks? That would leave us with despres, pouliot, harrington, dumoulin and also picks we could get and our original picks. I don't see us moving a forward obviously. If anything, I see dumoulin and martin moving, maybe bortz. 58, 10, 3, 47 and 4 won't get moved. Scudz can't be moved unless some absolute magic is worked and moving despres now doesn't make sense. He's finally getting the chance to show he can be a top 4 d man as early as next year.
- znagle

I think you would have to move one of the young D for one FW. Pick one...lets say Doumolin.

The other deal could be draft picks. Not our 1st though. Move Martin for picks to clear some space then move those picks for your winger. That way you'd have more trade options as the market for Martin as a UFA is likely minimal. But, I know teams would line up and send the Pens say, a 2nd and 3rd, to rent him for the rest of the season.

I think at minimum if they could get a decent top 6 guy (not at the Kane level but, god forbid, someone like a Tlusty) plus a good 3rd line body with size for one of the D prospects and a lower round draft pick or 2, I'd be good with that. Lets say Jordan Nolan from LA just to throw a name out there....

Sid-Kunitz-Horny
Malkin-Tlusty-BB
Nolan-Sutter-Downie
Spaling-Klink-Goc

Letang-Erhoff
Oli-Despres
Borts-Scuds
Harrington/Pouliot

I can tell you that not too many people from this side of PA lacked respect for Ronnie "Franchise". I saw a lot of him and maybe he wasnt appreciated because he was so consistent night in /night out that he didn't appear to elevate his game like 66 & 68 did. Instead, his game was already at such a high level that there was not too much room to improve. I liked him on the Whalers and always wanted him on the Flyers. Question to Pens fans: Was that not the single most important trade in the Pens franchise history?
- BOSS_TWEED

As I stated earlier, Ron Francis is the proto type two way player. He was good on the wall in either end, he could cycle and he could shut you down. He had a decent shot and good size. Most of all, he was smart as hell. A huge trade that gave us two cups, God bless Ronny Francis, a great player and a nice guy. Won the Lady Bing a few times too.

Here's the issue I have with Ryan's premise. Although in theory, I like Malkin and Sutter playing together in the short term, do we REALLY want to ask the guy who is carrying the team and tearing up the league to switch positions? You want Sutter to play wing instead? Fine by me, but don't mess with Geno.

Beyond that, you can count me amongst the crew that does not understand the love affair with Marcel Goc as some sort of like kind replacement for Sutter. I like the guy fine as a very solid 4th line player, and PK guy, but nothing I have seen of him, nor nothing in his career stats indicate to me that he has anything approaching the offensive puck skills that Sutter has....I just don't see it, and yes, I know he's playing with boat anchors on the 4th line. If you move Sutter up, the 3rd line is not nearly as dynamic, and the 4th line...uggh.
- Emperor Filonius

I agree, I don't know why people think Goc is a 3rd center.. maybe on the panthers, Goc doesn't have the skill sutter does, not even close. He can step in and play 3rd from time to time but long term that only hurts our bottom 6. Sutter on the third is what we need long term, short term it will work as we look for other offensive help.[/img]

Pens need FWs. Pens have little cap space. Pens have few assets to move beyond 1-2 D in the minors. Cant trade a FW for another FW. We have a quality veteran D-man in PMart but market for him will be minimal as no one is giving up a top-6 FW for a rental D-man. Not happening.

What to do...

1. Move Martin for 2nd and 3rd round picks. That trade can totally be made. Lots of teams would do this deal. This gets you 2 tradeable assets in the picks plus it frees up some cap space to make other deals.

2. Try to acquire 2 FW's using the draft picks and D-prospects you have. You now have some cap space to play with as well.

If by some chance you can find a team that will offer up a quality FW for PMart sure, go for it. I just don't think its happening.

I think you would have to move one of the young D for one FW. Pick one...lets say Doumolin.

The other deal could be draft picks. Not our 1st though. Move Martin for picks to clear some space then move those picks for your winger. That way you'd have more trade options as the market for Martin as a UFA is likely minimal. But, I know teams would line up and send the Pens say, a 2nd and 3rd, to rent him for the rest of the season.

I think at minimum if they could get a decent top 6 guy (not at the Kane level but, god forbid, someone like a Tlusty) plus a good 3rd line body with size for one of the D prospects and a lower round draft pick or 2, I'd be good with that. Lets say Jordan Nolan from LA just to throw a name out there....

Sid-Kunitz-Horny
Malkin-Tlusty-BB
Nolan-Sutter-Downie
Spaling-Klink-Goc

Letang-Erhoff
Oli-Despres
Borts-Scuds
Harrington/Pouliot
- 87_71_11_29

I know I'm nitpicking but no matter who is traded I dont think we should ever end up with a Borts-Scuderi pairing. I know we have some injuries but frustrating that Johnston had them together last night again.

Dumoulin hopefully has elevated his value a bit. I think he looks very good so far. He reminds me of a much calmer Despres. He's a really good effortless skater for a big man and doesn't show any panic like Despres when he was first called up. If Dumoulin wasn't orginally a Canes draft pick, I feel like he could bring in Tlusty. I hope there are some teams interested and we can find an equivalent prospect. I don't want to trade him for a UFA winger unless its a younger guy like Tlusty. The cap is rumored to be going up next year so whoever is brought in, we should be able to afford to extend them if needed.

All that said, who has more trade value, Martin or Dumoulin?

I think you would have to move one of the young D for one FW. Pick one...lets say Doumolin.

The other deal could be draft picks. Not our 1st though. Move Martin for picks to clear some space then move those picks for your winger. That way you'd have more trade options as the market for Martin as a UFA is likely minimal. But, I know teams would line up and send the Pens say, a 2nd and 3rd, to rent him for the rest of the season.

I think at minimum if they could get a decent top 6 guy (not at the Kane level but, god forbid, someone like a Tlusty) plus a good 3rd line body with size for one of the D prospects and a lower round draft pick or 2, I'd be good with that. Lets say Jordan Nolan from LA just to throw a name out there....

Sid-Kunitz-Horny
Malkin-Tlusty-BB
Nolan-Sutter-Downie
Spaling-Klink-Goc

Letang-Erhoff
Oli-Despres
Borts-Scuds
Harrington/Pouliot
- 87_71_11_29

I for one think martin can easily pull 2 second rounders. Maybe some kind of 1st (to a contender, maybe with multiple firsts) if he signs and 2 seconds if he doesn't. I would be cool with that, like anyone else would. That would free up our 2nd to deal obviously because we would either have 2 firsts next year or a replacement second and 2 the next year. We could deal a 2nd a dumoulin for a top 6, maybe next years second as well for ROR if he signs with us? That's who I would like to see in that situation. I would have no problem with tlusty though

The other deal could be draft picks. Not our 1st though. Move Martin for picks to clear some space then move those picks for your winger. That way you'd have more trade options as the market for Martin as a UFA is likely minimal. But, I know teams would line up and send the Pens say, a 2nd and 3rd, to rent him for the rest of the season.
- 87_71_11_29

Douglass Murray cost 2x 2nd round picks. I guarantee that Martin fetches significantly more than a 2nd & a 3rd. We forget that he's the kinda guy that a lot of teams might not want to pay 5M for for the regular season because they can't with the cap, but they damn sure want that kinda guy for a playoff run to fill a hole in the 2-4 range on their blue line.

I had an incredible interaction with Barrasso and his family when I worked at Kennywood. It was while his daughter was very sick, and I did something nice for her, and he went out of his way to pay that kindness back.

But I did always hear that he was abrasive.
- hardnosed

barasso is an as sholeee...he lived on our street in sewickley and promised to make it to multiple birthday parties, he lived about 5 doors down...and never once showed

also im fairly certain his wife stabbed him in the leg, so im sure he did something to deserve that

AND

wasnt that play offsides jsut prior to the goal in OT? I mean, I freeze framed it, and sure it was close, but the guy driving the center lane was off sides by about half a skate length by the time the puck crossed the line...BSSS

Pens need FWs. Pens have little cap space. Pens have few assets to move beyond 1-2 D in the minors. Cant trade a FW for another FW. We have a quality veteran D-man in PMart but market for him will be minimal as no one is giving up a top-6 FW for a rental D-man. Not happening.

What to do...

1. Move Martin for 2nd and 3rd round picks. That trade can totally be made. Lots of teams would do this deal. This gets you 2 tradeable assets in the picks plus it frees up some cap space to make other deals.

2. Try to acquire 2 FW's using the draft picks and D-prospects you have. You now have some cap space to play with as well.

If by some chance you can find a team that will offer up a quality FW for PMart sure, go for it. I just don't think its happening.
- 87_71_11_29

Have said at all along. Trading Martin for futures opens up many options. Only question mark is what teams could afford to take on Martin's salary without sending any salary back?

But if we could pull it off....we have the extra cap space to work with, more assets to deal from, less limitations from his LMC, and way more teams would be in play because they arent worried about taking on Martins big contract.

If we trade Martin for a 2nd and a 3rd, to use your example, it would be real easy to trade Dumoulin and one of the 2nd round picks for a nice young forward.

barasso is an as sholeee...he lived on our street in sewickley and promised to make it to multiple birthday parties, he lived about 5 doors down...and never once showed

also im fairly certain his wife stabbed him in the leg, so im sure he did something to deserve that

AND

wasnt that play offsides jsut prior to the goal in OT? I mean, I freeze framed it, and sure it was close, but the guy driving the center lane was off sides by about half a skate length by the time the puck crossed the line...BSSS
- JLT168

Yup, right when I saw that I said uhh that was offsides... I was watching on gamecenter so it was about 30 seconds delayed and got on twitter for a second and saw the rangers won, watched for the winner and noticed that offsides instantly

also im fairly certain his wife stabbed him in the leg, so im sure he did something to deserve that
- JLT168

The barasso thing had to do with multiple cases of cheating, another player on the team at the time, that player's wife, as well as Tommy B's wife if the story I heard from a guy that was "in the know" at the time is accurate. She stabbed him in the thigh with scissors.

Doesn't Martin have a Ntc? Couldn't he just say "no, I dont want traded"? Idk how that stuff works.

Doesn't Martin have a Ntc? Couldn't he just say "no, I dont want traded"? Idk how that stuff works.
- nateca44

He has to submit a list of teams he won't go to, ie no oilers etc.. he will leave contenders open most likely. Anaheim, LA, Minnesota (where he's from)

As I stated earlier, Ron Francis is the proto type two way player. He was good on the wall in either end, he could cycle and he could shut you down. He had a decent shot and good size. Most of all, he was smart as hell. A huge trade that gave us two cups, God bless Ronny Francis, a great player and a nice guy. Won the Lady Bing a few times too.
- powerhouse

Not to mention he was terrific at faceoffs

Doesn't Martin have a Ntc? Couldn't he just say "no, I dont want traded"? Idk how that stuff works.
- nateca44

they can also ask him to waive if they work out a trade that they think he would agree to. He can elect not to (I'm not sure if he has a NTC or a LMC tho). LMC means he submits a list of teams he will accept a trade to, but in both cases, he can waive it if he decides he wants to go there.

He has to submit a list of teams he won't go to, ie no oilers etc.. he will leave contenders open most likely. Anaheim, LA, Minnesota (where he's from)
- znagle

But none of those teams can take on $5M in salary without sending us some back. Making it hard to trade Martin for futures.