So you want to condemn Fleury but want to sign a goalie for more money who hasn't won a playoff series since 2007, or 2 goalies who have never done anything in the playoffs??
- cap1681

Yes in the case of Miller. As for the others, they were starting quality goalies who were never going to be #1s under Luongo and Quick. Halak is a cheap goalie who is far less likely to deflate his team than is MAF.

Fleury almost lost his job to non-starter Ty Conklin and did lose his job to starter Vokoun. Halak is about on the level of Vokoun, which to me would pose less of a threat to the Penguins' success in the playoffs than would MAF.

You are operating under the assumption that Bernier will be available (he's an RFA in the offseason unless I'm mistaken, and therefore would require giving up draft picks to get him assuming TOR doesn't roll out the cash cart to keep him). He also has ONE career playoff game on his resume.

And how would the Pens have "moved forward" with Scheider when he's under a long term contract with the Devils?

I'd like to "move forward" with Mila Kunis, but we all have to live in reality sometimes.
- Emperor Filonius

I'm referring to my work here the summer that both of those goalies were traded. It's not happening now or in the future. Banishing Fleury has been something of a project of mine since 2012.

She's Ukrainian... probably enigmatic and would have bolted to the KHL anyway...
- rival22

Nice.

[quote=Johnny Wrath]

Fleury suffered a high ankle sprain in 2007-08 and and Ty Conklin played great in his absence before Fleury returned and helped lead the Penguins to the Stanley Cup Finals later that year and a cup win the year after that, while Conklin continued his journeyman career and is currently playing for Grand Rapids in the AHL. Fluery did lose his job to starter Vokoun temporarily before MAF returned to form the following year and the Penguins lost to the Rangers because no one could score, which was obviously MAF's fault.

I took the liberty of editing your post to add actual facts. Hope that's cool. I don't happen to think MAF is great by any stretch, but the way people like you twist the narrative to slam him is quite remarkable. Are you sure this isn't Ryan Wilson? lol

She's Ukrainian... probably enigmatic and would have bolted to the KHL anyway...
- rival22

Now I finally understand why Putin wants the place so bad.

It must be miserable being you.
- Emperor Filonius

x1000

Anyone that bashes MAF...I can understand the thought process and cant really dismiss it.

I believe he is overpaid (new contract) by about 500K. I think $5.25 would have been about right.

Do I think he'll put up a dominant Apr/May/June and be THE reason this team wins a Cup. No I don't.

Could he implode at any moment? Yes. Does he make me nervous? Yes.

But, I also believe if we put a team that is good enough and defensively responsible enough in front of him, he can win another Cup. Why do I think that? Because he has done it before. Say what you want about him, he has one more earned Cup than a lot of replacements people call for (Bernier, Miller, Griess, Etc..).

So, I don't think the pro-MAF and anti-MAF stances are mutually exclusive. One can be hesitant regarding him but still believe he is the best option and can get the job done under the right circumstances.

The MAF debate has ruined this thread many times over, some people like him some people don't; this goes the same for Quarterbacks and Power Hitters in the Burgh. It will never change, you can beat people over the head with stats like a freeze dried elephant turd. Its never ever going to change, people in this city love to complain and they always throw the blame at the most obvious player in their minds, or simply the guy they don't like; in this case its MAF. After he wins his 2nd and 3rd cup everyone will shut their holes about him, then again maybe not.


Best goalie in franchise history, suck it

Anyone that bashes MAF...I can understand the thought process and cant really dismiss it.

I believe he is overpaid (new contract) by about 500K. I think $5.25 would have been about right.

Do I think he'll put up a dominant Apr/May/June and be THE reason this team wins a Cup. No I don't.

Could he implode at any moment? Yes. Does he make me nervous? Yes.

But, I also believe if we put a team that is good enough and defensively responsible enough in front of him, he can win another Cup. Why do I think that? Because he has done it before. Say what you want about him, he has one more earned Cup than a lot of replacements people call for (Bernier, Miller, Griess, Etc..).

So, I don't think the pro-MAF and anti-MAF stances are mutually exclusive. One can be hesitant regarding him but still believe he is the best option and can get the job done under the right circumstances.
- 87_71_11_29

This is pretty much the way I feel. I can see both sides. I'm not going to lie and say I'm confident that he'll perform in the playoffs.

HOWEVER... This team already appears to be much more sound defensively and as we've discussed earlier, that helps a lot of these players.

The Pens didn't lose in the playoffs the last two years because of goal tending.

Johnny Wrath made a question on EKs blog to try to prove he's right about Letang being a #3 d-man: who would you rather have on a playoff series: Letang or McDonaugh?...

Nobody answered McDonaugh so far

Comrade, Fleury posed a .834 against Philly in that series loss. 4.63 GAA.

The team was supposed to be on a mission after that season to never be in that position again. The Islanders broke Fleury right away and Vokoun carried the Penguins for the rest of the 2013 playoffs. That was the time to move on.

.891
.899
.834
.883
.915

Only one playoffs since 09 has MAF given the Penguins a decent performance using his career 0.910 sv% as a measure. The team in front of his .915 performance blew a 3-1 series lead, but even getting to the second round was questionable after the prior three years. Is that good enough for anyone here?

Johnny Wrath made a question on EKs blog to try to prove he's right about Letang being a #3 d-man: who would you rather have on a playoff series: Letang or McDonaugh?...

Nobody answered McDonaugh so far
- Barnaby36

To be fair there have been a total of two answers to zero, one being you.

This is pretty much the way I feel. I can see both sides. I'm not going to lie and say I'm confident that he'll perform in the playoffs.

HOWEVER... This team already appears to be much more sound defensively and as we've discussed earlier, that helps a lot of these players.

The Pens didn't lose in the playoffs the last two years because of goal tending.
- madmike71

The whole Fleury debate is just pointless, and it is the perfect example of beating a dead horse.

I feel like I've failed as a Penguins fan, because I was pretty much indifferent to his new contract. Like you, I can see both sides.

He took a good step in the playoffs last year, and if he is solid this year, it really puts a lot of doubt that I've had in him to rest.

In the end, he's here, he's signed for the next 4 years, and unless he turns into a tire fire in the playoffs, I don't see the point in debating him.

Johnny Wrath made a question on EKs blog to try to prove he's right about Letang being a #3 d-man: who would you rather have on a playoff series: Letang or McDonaugh?...

Nobody answered McDonaugh so far
- Barnaby36

This guy is having a rough day

This guy is having a rough day
- znagle

I wanted to see what the opinion would be in a 30 team thread. A Leafs fan said Letang, as did a Penguins fan. I'm disappointed that participation wasn't higher but the data isn't anything to go on.

I am personally in the camp that thinks they should try and trade Letang. Not because I don't like him or don't think he is any good. This team has depth at D and a serious lack of it at winger going forward. The Dupuis and Bennett situations are scary and Kunitz is 35. Trading Letang gives them the best chance of getting quality wingers. Plus if he is as elite as everybody thinks he is, even better.
Id like them to make a play for Nichuskin from Dallas. This guy projects to be a stud. Dallas sucks on defense. Make it happen Rutherford.

She's Ukrainian... probably enigmatic and would have bolted to the KHL anyway...
- rival22

I dont think too many Ukrainians are interested in Russia at the moment.

Anyone that bashes MAF...I can understand the thought process and cant really dismiss it.

I believe he is overpaid (new contract) by about 500K. I think $5.25 would have been about right.

Do I think he'll put up a dominant Apr/May/June and be THE reason this team wins a Cup. No I don't.

Could he implode at any moment? Yes. Does he make me nervous? Yes.

But, I also believe if we put a team that is good enough and defensively responsible enough in front of him, he can win another Cup. Why do I think that? Because he has done it before. Say what you want about him, he has one more earned Cup than a lot of replacements people call for (Bernier, Miller, Griess, Etc..).

So, I don't think the pro-MAF and anti-MAF stances are mutually exclusive. One can be hesitant regarding him but still believe he is the best option and can get the job done under the right circumstances.
- 87_71_11_29

Well said. That's about where I am as far as MAF is concerned.

Does anyone care if Malkin plays LW if he is producing points?

She's Ukrainian... probably enigmatic and would have bolted to the KHL anyway...
- rival22

You just put a smile on my face in the midst of the asinine turn this thread has taken.

I am personally in the camp that thinks they should try and trade Letang. Not because I don't like him or don't think he is any good. This team has depth at D and a serious lack of it at winger going forward. The Dupuis and Bennett situations are scary and Kunitz is 35. Trading Letang gives them the best chance of getting quality wingers. Plus if he is as elite as everybody thinks he is, even better.
Id like them to make a play for Nichuskin from Dallas. This guy projects to be a stud. Dallas sucks on defense. Make it happen Rutherford.
- all-pgh

I really like Letang, but I am not against trading him if it makes sense.

But I just don't think the time is good for that to happen. With the uncertainty of Martin and Ehrhoff, you could in theory be left with a ton of unproven, young defensemen next season. I'd take Ehrhoff back at the right price, but not Martin. With his age, and the money/term he will want, I'll pass.

Maybe a couple seasons from now if Pouliot develops like we think, and Harrington proves to be a top 4 guy, and Maatta is as good as he has been, I'd revisit it. By then, those guys will be getting significant raises if their play is that good too, so moving Letang's cap hit might make more sense too.

Does anyone care if Malkin plays LW if he is producing points?
- Johnny Wrath

probably a bunch of fantasy hockey nerds

Does anyone care if Malkin plays LW if he is producing points?
- Johnny Wrath

no, but the question is why would anyone want to risk the potential of disrupting him by moving him to left wing when he's producing points like crazy at his natural position?

I really like Letang, but I am not against trading him if it makes sense.

But I just don't think the time is good for that to happen. With the uncertainty of Martin and Ehrhoff, you could in theory be left with a ton of unproven, young defensemen next season. I'd take Ehrhoff back at the right price, but not Martin. With his age, and the money/term he will want, I'll pass.

Maybe a couple seasons from now if Pouliot develops like we think, and Harrington proves to be a top 4 guy, and Maatta is as good as he has been, I'd revisit it. By then, those guys will be getting significant raises if their play is that good too, so moving Letang's cap hit might make more sense too.
- rival22

Thing about Letang is his cap hit will be a steal in the next year or two already with the cap projection. Subban got that monster deal, tanger is locked up for 7.25 for long term. It won't be soon until top defense men make 9-10 million regularly.

Also think about this, Orpik is locked up for 5.5 and niskanen at 5.75. Still want to trade Letang for 1.75 million freed up in difference of them?