I don't advocate tanking, I advocate having a realistic view of your team & it's chances.

Based on talent, the Flyers should be a bubble team. There are a lot of pieces under performing. The list includes core guys(Simmonds, Couturier), old vets on their last gasp(Lecavalier & Umberger) and guys in the middle(Read, Coburn).

Even if those players were performing to expected levels, this team is not a contender, or even a piece or two away. They face serious cap issues. I have zero issues with them deciding to sell.

In terms if building, you need smart trades, drafting and free agency to be a winner. What they need to avoid is giving fading or mediocre players big contracts. No long term deals to Lecavaliers & AMacs. Find more MDZ types & save the long deals for key guys
- Jsaquella

I agree.

I also think this is the one draft that at the TDL if your out of it you go into sell mode. Be smart with trades but then in the offseason and at the draft reconfigure the roster. If you can move some money and contracts you might be able to allocate money better. Also build the roster to your liking more. I am not saying sell off guys like Giroux, Voracek, Couturier, Laughton but maybe you can start to build off their skill sets to make the team fit better

Look I get that. To me though the stats do not paint the full picture of Giroux. He is a different player than he was in 2012. His intensity level has dropped off noticeably. Even in the shootouts he guesses himself. That used to be his thing. I dont see a Giroux that would take charge of a game or shift anymore. He seems fine with just setting up on the half wall and dishing the puck. A majority of his points this season have come from just being on the ice with Voracek and his individual efforts.
- GOA88

So the shootouts at the start of the season where he was the only one scoring with decisive moves and is this assessment based just off the last shootout?

Clearly his intensity was lacking last season..I mean its not like he was essentially the primary reason they made the playoffs..It's not like he was Hart trophy finalist last year.. Clearly his intensity is lacking this season given his performance so far.

Obviously he is just riding the coat tails of Voracek..Couldnt be the other way around or Occam says hi and wants you to know that both are making the other better players..

"Moving forward, 2012 first-round pick Scott Laughton could be part of the solution -"

First time I read this I thought you were saying to move Laughton and I was befuddled, because surely you wouldn't say that. It's better now.

It's amazing the long term affects the Lou Angotti trade has had on this franchise!
- MJL

Lol.

I'd be OK w/ Brunner. Not sure they could waive enough bodies to get under the cap in time to grab him, tho.
- Tomahawk

Brunner is close to a .5 point per game guy over 150 NHL games. Only 28. I think he's definitely going to get claimed.

So the shootouts at the start of the season where he was the only one scoring with decisive moves and is this assessment based just off the last shootout?

Clearly his intensity was lacking last season..I mean its not like he was essentially the primary reason they made the playoffs..It's not like he was Hart trophy finalist last year.. Clearly his intensity is lacking this season given his performance so far.

Obviously he is just riding the coat tails of Voracek..Couldnt be the other way around or Occam says hi and wants you to know that both are making the other better players..
- opeth_pa

I've also seen him in game rallying the troops before faceoffs (and in one case clearly annoyed at the length of a TV timeout that he felt was killing momentum before a FO). And there are plenty of times during play that he's in charge and emotional. Unfortunately there are too many fans willing to baa along behind the nabobs of negativity who are the Philadelphia hockey beats. If they can't be complaining about a captain, they aren't happy. There is plenty wrong with the Flyers organization and team, but the identity of their captain is not one of them.

I think they just continue at the pace they are currently at and then make some deals at the trade deadline.

Vinny for a 7th rounder
Umberger + 4th for a 7th rounder
Grossman for a High 2nd or low 3rd round pick
Amac for a High 2nd or low 3rd round pick
Coburn for a 1st + reclamation prospect
Luke Schenn for a 2nd

I think they just continue at the pace they are currently at and then make some deals at the trade deadline.

Vinny for a 7th rounder
Umberger + 4th for a 7th rounder
Grossman for a High 2nd or low 3rd round pick
Amac for a High 2nd or low 3rd round pick
Coburn for a 1st + reclamation prospect
Luke Schenn for a 2nd
- Jack-Meoff

Who gives you anything for Vinny or Umberger. Don't they need to show they'd be worth their salaray for the rest of their contracts? This isn't rent a player who may be useful in a playoff run playoffs (as if Umberger would be even that). It's taking on bad contracts from a guy whose admitted to thinking about retirement (even a year out, once you're considering it, you probably should just do it) and a guy who SHOULD be considering retirement.

This current Flyers team is the softest group I can ever remember. No tenacity, no piss and vinegar in the lineup ... no toughness along the boards.

Even that VERY soft Flyers team under Craig Ramsey would beat this marshmallow bunch ... and Ramsey was fired by Clarke because the team was "too easy to play against."

This doesn't bode for Berube.
- FlyerGuy

I mean lets be honest here.. The owner and coach both preached getting away from taking penalties. Hell, they flat out traded a guy who's biggest issue was taking penalties. What kind of effect do you think that has on the players?

Yotes acquire Philip Samuelsson from Pens for Rob Klinkhammer and a conditional 5th

I think they just continue at the pace they are currently at and then make some deals at the trade deadline.

Vinny for a 7th rounder
Umberger + 4th for a 7th rounder
Grossman for a High 2nd or low 3rd round pick
Amac for a High 2nd or low 3rd round pick
Coburn for a 1st + reclamation prospect
Luke Schenn for a 2nd
- Jack-Meoff

i definitely value Coburn more than you do

I don't advocate tanking, I advocate having a realistic view of your team & it's chances.

Based on talent, the Flyers should be a bubble team. There are a lot of pieces under performing. The list includes core guys(Simmonds, Couturier), old vets on their last gasp(Lecavalier & Umberger) and guys in the middle(Read, Coburn).

Even if those players were performing to expected levels, this team is not a contender, or even a piece or two away. They face serious cap issues. I have zero issues with them deciding to sell.

In terms if building, you need smart trades, drafting and free agency to be a winner. What they need to avoid is giving fading or mediocre players big contracts. No long term deals to Lecavaliers & AMacs. Find more MDZ types & save the long deals for key guys
- Jsaquella

Finding the MDZ types is not the way to build a team for long term success. For every successful bargain found, there are how many that turn out to be getting what you paid for? And the jury is still out on MDZ. And if he excels, he isn't going to stay an "MDZ"type for long.

Lol.

I'd be OK w/ Brunner. Not sure they could waive enough bodies to get under the cap in time to grab him, tho.
- Tomahawk

It seems like waiving VdV and CC wouldn't quite be enough.

i definitely value Coburn more than you do
- nastyflyergirl

Coburn doesn't really have any offense to his game, coupled with his consistency issues, not sure how much value he has. He's a great skater for a big man, but outside of skating, not sure what other skill he does that is above average.

So the shootouts at the start of the season where he was the only one scoring with decisive moves and is this assessment based just off the last shootout?

Clearly his intensity was lacking last season..I mean its not like he was essentially the primary reason they made the playoffs..It's not like he was Hart trophy finalist last year.. Clearly his intensity is lacking this season given his performance so far.

Obviously he is just riding the coat tails of Voracek..Couldnt be the other way around or Occam says hi and wants you to know that both are making the other better players..
- opeth_pa

Are you Claude Giroux??? You are getting quite defensive. Also I am not talking about last season. I am talking about this season. He has 28 pts in 25 games and most of those points are secondary assists from just handing the puck to Voracek so he can dominate. His goal scoring touch isnt quite there yet this season either. Judging on watching him play.... he does not seem like the same player in 2012. Thats just how I feel. He'll get his points and even in games when he is unoticeable BUT he got a point so he was awesome.... I have high expectations for Giroux. I would like to think he has the talent to be one of the top 5 players in the league. To me he has not shown it.... THIS SEASON.

Who gives you anything for Vinny or Umberger. Don't they need to show they'd be worth their salaray for the rest of their contracts? This isn't rent a player who may be useful in a playoff run playoffs (as if Umberger would be even that). It's taking on bad contracts from a guy whose admitted to thinking about retirement (even a year out, once you're considering it, you probably should just do it) and a guy who SHOULD be considering retirement.
- bodiva88

Honestly getting rid of Vinny and Umberger is more of just wishful thinking and a lot of praying. Don't think anyone would be dumb enough to pick up those contracts. (Other than the Flyers)

But maybe the rumors about Vinny saying hell retire after next year makes a trade possible. Umberger is just a lost cause at this point.

Finding the MDZ types is not the way to build a team for long term success. For every successful bargain found, there are how many that turn out to be getting what you paid for? And the jury is still out on MDZ. And if he excels, he isn't going to stay an "MDZ"type for long.
- MJL

Way to ignore everything and just stretch one facet of his post.


The point is... MDZ at 1.whatever million for one season is way better than 5 million for 6 years of MacDonald.

Stop bidding against yourself because all that it does is put you in a weak spot for the current time and the future.

Be smarter with the moves you make. Dont give the world to a player on merit alone.

Lol.

I'd be OK w/ Brunner. Not sure they could waive enough bodies to get under the cap in time to grab him, tho.
- Tomahawk

Brunner is only making 2.5M. Why would they have to waive guys? I always see someone saying the Flyers have zero cap issues!

It seems like waiving VdV and CC wouldn't quite be enough.
- Feanor

Demoting VDV and waiving Umberger would.

Brunner is only making 2.5M. Why would they have to waive guys? I always see someone saying the Flyers have zero cap issues!
- PLindbergh31

If they could get rid of the 17.7 mil per season they are paying to have MacDonald, Schenn, Umberger, and LeCavalier they wouldnt have too many issues.

If they could get rid of the 17.7 mil per season they are paying to have MacDonald, Schenn, Umberger, and LeCavalier they wouldnt have too many issues.
- jak521

Seems like a steep mountain....

Way to ignore everything and just stretch one facet of his post.


The point is... MDZ at 1.whatever million for one season is way better than 5 million for 6 years of MacDonald.

Stop bidding against yourself because all that it does is put you in a weak spot for the current time and the future.

Be smarter with the moves you make. Dont give the world to a player on merit alone.
- jak521

I'll comment how I please, and if I want to comment on one part of a post, that is also my right. And you completely missed the point.

With that being said, the best way to build a team, especially with the defense is to have continuity. Not bargain shopping ever year. More times then not, you get what you pay for. And if Del Zotto has a strong season, he'll have to get paid anyway. That's the points that you missed.
Everybody wants good players, but doesn't want to pay for them.

If they could get rid of the 17.7 mil per season they are paying to have MacDonald, Schenn, Umberger, and LeCavalier they wouldnt have too many issues.
- jak521

Imagine that. More than 1/4 of your cap taking turns as healthy scratches, not even providing replacement level performance. Unreal.

Seems like a steep mountain....
- GOA88

Molehill.

Imagine that. More than 1/4 of your cap taking turns as healthy scratches, not even providing replacement level performance. Unreal.
- PLindbergh31

That and Coburn are mostly why they only have 8 wins.