So far he's been true to his word. Hope it lasts.
- Jsaquella

Pavel Zacha suspended 6 games for a boarding penalty
http://www.ontariohockeyl...dc8d380ddad9dd125b0298626

Lawson Crouse suspended 2 games (no video)

http://www.ontariohockeyl...ague.com/page/media-notes

I'm not asking him to do more. I'm asking him not to get beat down low. I'm asking him not to make stupid pinches. I'm asking him not to blow coverages. I asking him to not commit bad turnovers in his own end of the ice. He's been doing all these things, quite often of late.

I'm not asking him to quarterback a powerplay, I'm asking him to be a smart, physical stay at home guy, who doesn't make mistakes on routine plays. Unfortunately, he hasn't been that guy very often this season.
- Jsaquella

I disagree that he hasn't been that guy very often this season. Grossmann is a pretty steady player, and always has been. It's not to often that he blows a coverage, and makes a bad read and a bad pinch like he did the last game. I think you've had a bias against Grossmann for a long time, and the comment that he hasn't been reliable very often this season to paraphrase, proves it. He's not a possession defenseman, he's not great with the puck. He can sometime frustrate when he makes a bad pass that leads to an icing. This team spends a lot of time defending in it's own end. And Grossmann is solid in his own end, is physical, and can block shots. That's why he's in the lineup, even with his shortcomings. Berube trusts him for good reason.

i disagree with "seriously wrong". it's possible for it all to go wrong and then snowball. there are good pieces here. also bad pieces. the bad pieces need to be moved. the forwards SHOULD be better than they've been. the mix on d is terrible. individually, i don't think any of them are bad players, even schenn, but as a group, poop show.

if we could move 3 d and 3 forwards, this could be a significantly improved team in short order. 6 players is a lot of turnover in 1 season. not likely.
- hammarby31

A team can go mentally in the crapper and it can definitely snowball to the point where they never get out of it. Flyers are in danger of that if they don't get out of it soon. No such thing as moral victories when you've lost 8 in a row or whatever. But the Flyers played better in the last two games then they have been, against two pretty good teams.

I'm not asking him to do more. I'm asking him not to get beat down low. I'm asking him not to make stupid pinches that lead to odd man rushes against. I'm asking him not to blow coverages. I'm asking him to not commit bad turnovers in his own end of the ice. He's been doing all these things, quite often of late.

I'm not asking him to quarterback a powerplay, I'm asking him to be a smart, physical stay at home guy, who doesn't make mistakes on routine plays. Unfortunately, he hasn't been that guy very often this season.
- Jsaquella

I really don't recall Grossmann committing unforced turnovers, no more than anyone else, but I think he's played pretty steady.
I do recall him saving a few goals down low, more than blowing coverages.
Getting caught up ice? Grossmann?
I think you mean Streit in that department.
I can't really remember him pinching down low, Streit, MDZ, Coburn, all yes, but not him, not on a game to game basis anyway.
Not liking his game is ok, its opinion, I personally don't like Streit, although he's played better, he can be reckless, forcing his passes.

Carlo has played well, but I think he's pretty much slotted #8 barring a trade.

I guess if scratching a player because of turnovers/mistakes was the main criteria we'd see Braden Schenn out, (he's had a few bad ones on the road trip that were costly).

In bold, just his name as an example, but not seriously?

I wonder if VL gets another shot?
I would hate to see Laughton
- puckhead17

Why slot a guy who has played well as an 8th defenseman? If the entire team has performed poorly, except for Giroux, Voracek, Mason & Emery, why are other players getting cut slack?

If it's a team wide issue, outside of the above mentioned 4, then why are Grossmann, Coburn and others immune from being scratched? A lot of folks want to blame the whole team, but then as soon as a certain name or two is mentioned, the wagons get circled and that player is defended like he's the last barrel of water in the desert.

Want to scratch Luke Schenn for blown coverages? Fine. But hold Braydon Coburn to the same standard. Want to bench Del Zotto because he has gotten into a bad habit of ill-timed O-zone pinching? That's 100% valid. But when Grossmann does it, he should be held every bit as accountable.

As the large majority of posters have said, the Flyers situation is on every player who isn't playing up to their capabilities. Then every player that isn't, whether it's being mistake prone, being undisciplined or simply not being good enough, should be held to the same standards.

I really don't recall Grossmann committing unforced turnovers, no more than anyone else, but I think he's played pretty steady.
I do recall him saving a few goals down low, more than blowing coverages.
Getting caught up ice? Grossmann?
I think you mean Streit in that department.
I can't really remember him pinching down low, Streit, MDZ, Coburn, all yes, but not him, not on a game to game basis anyway.
- puckhead17

In the last game against Anaheim, I believe it was the Getzlaff goal, Grossmann made a bad pinch that led to an odd man rush against, and a goal. Bad reads like that from Grossmann are not the norm, they are rare.

I really don't recall Grossmann committing unforced turnovers, no more than anyone else, but I think he's played pretty steady.
I do recall him saving a few goals down low, more than blowing coverages.
Getting caught up ice? Grossmann?
I think you mean Streit in that department.
I can't really remember him pinching down low, Streit, MDZ, Coburn, all yes, but not him, not on a game to game basis anyway.
Not liking his game is ok, its opinion, I personally don't like Streit, although he's played better, he can be reckless, forcing his passes.
- puckhead17

Against the Sharks he flubbed a pass right up the middle of the slot, got burned getting back and had to take a hooking penalty.

Against the Ducks, Grossmann made a really bad decision to pinch and the resulting 3 on 1 resulted in the second Anaheim goal.

During the stretch where the penalty kill was especially bad, he was every bit as culpable as Coburn to blown coverages on the PK, leading to goals against.

It's not a matter of not liking his game, it's a matter of him being mistake prone and playing poorly in his role.

Why slot a guy who has played well as an 8th defenseman? If the entire team has performed poorly, except for Giroux, Voracek, Mason & Emery, why are other players getting cut slack?

If it's a team wide issue, outside of the above mentioned 4, then why are Grossmann, Coburn and others immune from being scratched? A lot of folks want to blame the whole team, but then as soon as a certain name or two is mentioned, the wagons get circled and that player is defended like he's the last barrel of water in the desert.

Want to scratch Luke Schenn for blown coverages? Fine. But hold Braydon Coburn to the same standard. Want to bench Del Zotto because he has gotten into a bad habit of ill-timed O-zone pinching? That's 100% valid. But when Grossmann does it, he should be held every bit as accountable.

As the large majority of posters have said, the Flyers situation is on every player who isn't playing up to their capabilities. Then every player that isn't, whether it's being mistake prone, being undisciplined or simply not being good enough, should be held to the same standards.
- Jsaquella

this.

In the last game against Anaheim, I believe it was the Getzlaff goal, Grossmann made a bad pinch that led to an odd man rush against, and a goal. Bad reads like that from Grossmann are not the norm, they are rare.
- MJL

Yeah, your right, my bad, but it was a rarity.

Why slot a guy who has played well as an 8th defenseman? If the entire team has performed poorly, except for Giroux, Voracek, Mason & Emery, why are other players getting cut slack?

If it's a team wide issue, outside of the above mentioned 4, then why are Grossmann, Coburn and others immune from being scratched? A lot of folks want to blame the whole team, but then as soon as a certain name or two is mentioned, the wagons get circled and that player is defended like he's the last barrel of water in the desert.

Want to scratch Luke Schenn for blown coverages? Fine. But hold Braydon Coburn to the same standard. Want to bench Del Zotto because he has gotten into a bad habit of ill-timed O-zone pinching? That's 100% valid. But when Grossmann does it, he should be held every bit as accountable.

As the large majority of posters have said, the Flyers situation is on every player who isn't playing up to their capabilities. Then every player that isn't, whether it's being mistake prone, being undisciplined or simply not being good enough, should be held to the same standards.
- Jsaquella

Colaiacovo has played 5 games. He's slotted at the 8th defenseman because that is what he was signed for, and that's his role.

I'll explain the difference between the errors that Coburn makes, versus the errors that Schenn makes.

Take the game winning goal that the Flyers gave up against SJ. Coburn tried to make a play on the puck in the neutral zone, it got by him, then he busted his ass to get back, and unfortunately took out Mason preventing him from making the save. Is it a bad play, absolutely! But is the effort there? Did the player, even though he made a mistake, bust his ass on the play?

Now let's look at one of the mistakes and goals against that Schenn was on the ice for. Let's look at the Vatanen goal. Schenn is standing still, flat footed, makes a weak stick check attempt on Vatanen, as he easily stick handles around Schenn. The Schenn turns around and stands there and puck watches, which he's done countless times, while Vatanen gets the puck behind the net and stuffs it in to an open net. How would you rate the effort from Schenn on that play? Did he bust his ass, but just made a mistake? No he didn't! He didn't move his feet. He stood there. That's why he get's scratched and Coburn doesn't.

Compare the Grossmann mistake on the pinch. It's a mistake and bad read, but is the effort there, is he trying to make a play?

This stuff isn't hard to get.

Against the Sharks he flubbed a pass right up the middle of the slot, got burned getting back and had to take a hooking penalty.

Against the Ducks, Grossmann made a really bad decision to pinch and the resulting 3 on 1 resulted in the second Anaheim goal.

During the stretch where the penalty kill was especially bad, he was every bit as culpable as Coburn to blown coverages on the PK, leading to goals against.

It's not a matter of not liking his game, it's a matter of him being mistake prone and playing poorly in his role.
- Jsaquella

Grossmann is not mistake prone. That is false in my opinion.

“I’m not getting off the plan that I set out in the summer time,” Hextall said. “We’re heading in the same direction. We’re off track right now a little bit for this season, but I am not going to do something that’s gonna hurt our future to try to get a few points or make the playoffs now.

“I believe we still have a good enough team to make the playoffs, but I’m not sacrificing anybody or our future to try to make this team better right now. If the right deal comes alone, then I will look at it.”

Hextall today

- Just5

In this case I hope Hexy's being more genuine with the press than Homer.

Regardless of where they are in the standings, I'm all for dealing vets at or around the TDL. They need to get picks for this draft and should be able to get something for some of their defensemen.
- Jsaquella

Yes...they should be sellers...an extra 1st or second or even a third or two would give them more options come draft day. I could see them trying to move up to grab Eichel or McDavid if they don't land a top 2 pick. Still a long ways to go though.

Yes...they should be sellers...an extra 1st or second or even a third or two would give them more options come draft day. I could see them trying to move up to grab Eichel or McDavid if they don't land a top 2 pick. Still a long ways to go though.
- exlund

The cost to get one of the top 2 picks would be extensive.

Against the Sharks he flubbed a pass right up the middle of the slot, got burned getting back and had to take a hooking penalty.

Against the Ducks, Grossmann made a really bad decision to pinch and the resulting 3 on 1 resulted in the second Anaheim goal.

During the stretch where the penalty kill was especially bad, he was every bit as culpable as Coburn to blown coverages on the PK, leading to goals against.

It's not a matter of not liking his game, it's a matter of him being mistake prone and playing poorly in his role.
- Jsaquella

I'll give you the Getzlaf goal, (bad pinch), but he rarely makes those mistakes.
I don't think his defensive zone coverage is as bad as you say.
If he blocks several shots, but flubs on a bad pass, leading to a hook, that makes him completely useless?
I guess Berube doesn't understand the capabilities of his defensemen, utilizing him in the capacity that he does.

FREE CARLO!!!

I'll give you the Getzlaf goal, (bad pinch), but he rarely makes those mistakes.
I don't think his defensive zone coverage is as bad as you say.
If he blocks several shots, but flubs on a bad pass, leading to a hook, that makes him completely useless?
I guess Berube doesn't understand the capabilities of his defensemen, utilizing him in the capacity that he does.
- puckhead17

The biggest problem is that the Flyers don't have a legitimate top defense pairing, so they have to play a player like Grossmann in a lot of defensive situations.

The biggest problem is that the Flyers don't have a legitimate top defense pairing, so they have to play a player like Grossmann in a lot of defensive situations.
- MJL

Using a #5, or 6 guy higher in the lineup, Yes.

FREE CARLO!!!
- 77rams

They did, from unemployment, to a $625,000 seat.

They did, from unemployment, to a $625,000 seat.
- puckhead17

Not a bad gig.

Yes...they should be sellers...an extra 1st or second or even a third or two would give them more options come draft day. I could see them trying to move up to grab Eichel or McDavid if they don't land a top 2 pick. Still a long ways to go though.
- exlund

The only way the Flyers get in position to draft Eichel, or McD is if they get there honestly - by continuing down the path they are laying out for themselves. They don't have enough to move up to get either of those two otherwise.

The only way the Flyers get in position to draft Eichel, or McD is if they get there honestly - by continuing down the path they are laying out for themselves. They don't have enough to move up to get either of those two otherwise.
- 77rams

I agree, I don't think they do either. And you can bet that it would start with one of Voracek or Giroux.

They did, from unemployment, to a $625,000 seat.
- puckhead17

Give the dude a chance to earn a contract next year. His play wasn't such an eyesore that he doesn't at least deserve a shot. Compared to what Berube has been throwing out there? Where's the harm?

I'll give you the Getzlaf goal, (bad pinch), but he rarely makes those mistakes.
I don't think his defensive zone coverage is as bad as you say.
If he blocks several shots, but flubs on a bad pass, leading to a hook, that makes him completely useless?
I guess Berube doesn't understand the capabilities of his defensemen, utilizing him in the capacity that he does.
- puckhead17

I didn't call him useless. If you want to have a discussion, let's stick to what I actually said. No need for invention.

My issue is not with how Berube has used him. Berube has used him in a primarily defensive role, because that has been his strength as a NHLer.

The trouble is, I don't feel Grossmann has performed very well in that role. If you disagree, fine. That's the basis of the disagreement. You seem to feel Grossmann has played fine.

I don't. And it's under that basis that I feel Grossmann should be held up to the same standards that the coach holds others up to, and scratch him when he plays poorly. Just like he's done to Schenn, Del Zotto and MacDonald. I'm not saying those players shouldn't be scratched, I'm simply saying that Grossmann-as well as Coburn-deserve to be held to the same level of accountability.

If Grossmann was playing the way he did from mid-February through the playoffs last season, I'd have zero issue with him playing while others are being scratched.

I didn't call him useless. If you want to have a discussion, let's stick to what I actually said. No need for invention.

My issue is not with how Berube has used him. Berube has used him in a primarily defensive role, because that has been his strength as a NHLer.

The trouble is, I don't feel Grossmann has performed very well in that role. If you disagree, fine. That's the basis of the disagreement. You seem to feel Grossmann has played fine.

I don't. And it's under that basis that I feel Grossmann should be held up to the same standards that the coach holds others up to, and scratch him when he plays poorly. Just like he's done to Schenn, Del Zotto and MacDonald. I'm not saying those players shouldn't be scratched, I'm simply saying that Grossmann-as well as Coburn-deserve to be held to the same level of accountability.

If Grossmann was playing the way he did from mid-February through the playoffs last season, I'd have zero issue with him playing while others are being scratched.
- Jsaquella

Grossmann is one of the last players on this team that should be scratched. There's different reasons for scratching players. It's not always about accountability. Grossmann is never going to get a fair shake from you.