back in the day, teams seemed to stay as a team for long periods of time. then money got crazy and players became mercenaries, moving about at will with a lot of turnover from what year to the next making consistency and team identity harder to come by. then the cap came along in name of cost control and parity, and it's essentially hamstrung teams when the realize they've got rotten eggs like the flyers have right now.

instead of being able to jettison players in a variety of ways to in an effort to make them as competitive as possible, they're basically (frank)ed. you really can't just get rid of guys without penalizing your team in terms of cap space. so unless you find the perfect players for the perfect contract who perform as expected, you're stuck if they poop the bed. it's a really terrible byproduct of the cap and i can't (frank)ing stand it.
- hammarby31

I agree. I understand the cost control aspect. But it's hard to recover from a mistake. In years past you could demote a player, and get him off the cap. Then they changed that. Added cap recapture, which I think is absolute crap. I understand why they want all this done. There's a much better solution in my opinion, that if it was actually done, they could still allow the flexibility of being able to waive and demote players. And that's GM's and team controlling themselves, and lowering player salaries on average. They bid against each other and drive up player costs.

who do you ultimately see as this teams second line center? couturier, laughton, schenn back there? other?
- stayinthefnnet

Couturier.

Couturier.
- MJL

so the development of laughton will enable him to absorb some of the defensive obligations, and free up couturier for offensive growth a bit?

so the development of laughton will enable him to absorb some of the defensive obligations, and free up couturier for offensive growth a bit?
- stayinthefnnet

I don't see why Giroux cant do that now. He's great at the circle, and should be able to go up against other team's top lines from time to time.

Shouldn't all be on Couturier.

Couturier.
- MJL

If that's the case I think they're going to have to get a big skill upgrade at LW on the 2nd line in order to see Coots and Simmonds put up the kind of numbers you want to see a 2nd line put up.

Disappointed no one brought up Jeremy Roy when listing potential picks. If the Flyers go on a run after the deadline he might be available around #10. It would be nice to have a stud D prospect who was a righty.

so the development of laughton will enable him to absorb some of the defensive obligations, and free up couturier for offensive growth a bit?
- stayinthefnnet

I hope so. Honestly, I see that as more of a team development that has to happen, versus one player. The best teams can put out any of their 4 lines for a D zone draw. Even though players like Toews and Bergeron are considered top Selke level forwards, they don't see near the D zone starts that Couturier does. I haven't looked at the numbers lately, but that was the case in the past. Until the Flyers develop into a team where all 4 lines consistently pressure the puck, and back check and defend, they won't get where they need to get.

I don't see why Giroux cant do that now. He's great at the circle, and should be able to go up against other team's top lines from time to time.

Shouldn't all be on Couturier.
- flyer_nutter

i dont think giroux is a stud defensively, but he could do it more and at least tread water, i agree.

but then again, with how the lineup currently is constructed. if he doesnt score or assist jake, they simply dont score.

so the development of laughton will enable him to absorb some of the defensive obligations, and free up couturier for offensive growth a bit?
- stayinthefnnet

We could also try putting him with Voracek.

Raffll-Giroux-Simmonds
BSchenn-Couturier-Voracek
Bellemare-Laughton-Read
Three-Bad-Players

Disappointed no one brought up Jeremy Roy when listing potential picks. If the Flyers go on a run after the deadline he might be available around #10. It would be nice to have a stud D prospect who was a righty.
- Feanor

Even though I'm generally a BPA guy unless they move another D prospect for a forward I think it would really behoove the Flyers to go winger in the first round at this point.

I hope so. Honestly, I see that as more of a team development that has to happen, versus one player. The best teams can put out any of their 4 lines for a D zone draw. Even though players like Toews and Bergeron are considered top Selke level forwards, they don't see near the D zone starts that Couturier does. I haven't looked at the numbers lately, but that was the case in the past. Until the Flyers develop into a team where all 4 lines consistently pressure the puck, and back check and defend, they won't get where they need to get.
- MJL

true. i agree team mentality as a whole needs to be better. but a key component of that improvement is simply the insertion of better players. and laughton can be a vital part of that.

Even though I'm generally a BPA guy unless they move another D prospect for a forward I think it would really behoove the Flyers to go winger in the first round at this point.
- hereticpride

That's a good point, although they could possibly trade a D prospect for a LW who was NHL ready.

If that's the case I think they're going to have to get a big skill upgrade at LW on the 2nd line in order to see Coots and Simmonds put up the kind of numbers you want to see a 2nd line put up.
- hereticpride

I think they need a playmaking LW for sure, but where Couturier's point totals fell short last season was in PP production. His ES point total last year was 2nd line production. Overall last year, Simmonds ranked 14th in the entire NHL in points, among RW's. That's not 2nd line production, that's first line Winger production.

We could also try putting him with Voracek.

Raffll-Giroux-Simmonds
BSchenn-Couturier-Voracek
Bellemare-Laughton-Read
Three-Bad-Players
- Feanor

i do see the logic there. ive always thought you should give them a try split up. i think right now they are just so worried about potentially drying up the one source of offense they have.

We could also try putting him with Voracek.

Raffll-Giroux-Simmonds
BSchenn-Couturier-Voracek
Bellemare-Laughton-Read
Three-Bad-Players
- Feanor

Interesting.

You know what, what do they have to lose seeing what Jake can do on a line without G at this point? If that's what you need to do to get the 2nd line going then that's what you try.

At the very least you're getting one of Jake or G away from top pairing D men.

That's a good point, although they could possibly trade a D prospect for a LW who was NHL ready.
- Feanor

yeah. i think he was overpaid a bit. but i thought jokinen would have been a good fit for your second line.

I think they need a playmaking LW for sure, but where Couturier's point totals fell short last season was in PP production. His ES point total last year was 2nd line production. Overall last year, Simmonds ranked 14th in the entire NHL in points, among RW's. That's not 2nd line production, that's first line Winger production.
- MJL

I'd be curious to see Simmond's numbers at 5 on 5 compared to the PP.

Seems more of his points, if not all come on the man advantage.

true. i agree team mentality as a whole needs to be better. but a key component of that improvement is simply the insertion of better players. and laughton can be a vital part of that.
- stayinthefnnet

No doubt. I just don't think it's healthy for a team or the player, to put it all on one player. I think it has honestly slowed Couturier's offensive growth to this point. I want to see them build a team approach versus a designated player approach.

I think they need a playmaking LW for sure, but where Couturier's point totals fell short last season was in PP production. His ES point total last year was 2nd line production. Overall last year, Simmonds ranked 14th in the entire NHL in points, among RW's. That's not 2nd line production, that's first line Winger production.
- MJL

But weren't the majority of Simmonds points coming from in font of the net on the PP?

I'd be curious to see Simmond's numbers at 5 on 5 compared to the PP.

Seems more of his points, if not all come on the man advantage.
- flyer_nutter

Last year Simmonds scored 36 points at ES versus 24 points on the PP.

But weren't the majority of Simmonds points coming from in font of the net on the PP?
- hereticpride

Nope.

back in the day, teams seemed to stay as a team for long periods of time. then money got crazy and players became mercenaries, moving about at will with a lot of turnover from what year to the next making consistency and team identity harder to come by. then the cap came along in name of cost control and parity, and it's essentially hamstrung teams when the realize they've got rotten eggs like the flyers have right now.

instead of being able to jettison players in a variety of ways to in an effort to make them as competitive as possible, they're basically (frank)ed. you really can't just get rid of guys without penalizing your team in terms of cap space. so unless you find the perfect players for the perfect contract who perform as expected, you're stuck if they poop the bed. it's a really terrible byproduct of the cap and i can't (frank)ing stand it.
- hammarby31

With the questionable signings that the Flyers have made, don't they deserve to be in the situation they are in? There are plenty of other teams that have the capability of spending right up to the cap, or throwing money at certain players that the flyers have but they don't. They should be commended for it, and they have the right to sit back and laugh at the Flyers situation. Everyone is on the same playing field here, I like how contracts are guaranteed, I find the upstairs part of the game almost as interesting as the play on the ice. Shame on the Flyers for signing Vinny, which was risky in that they signed a 33 yoa player to a 5 year contract.

Last year Simmonds scored 36 points at ES versus 24 points on the PP.
- MJL

Really? I swear I cant see the dude scoring except on PP.

We could also try putting him with Voracek.

Raffll-Giroux-Simmonds
BSchenn-Couturier-Voracek
Bellemare-Laughton-Read
Three-Bad-Players
- Feanor

I'm not ready to break up G and Jake. I'd rather B Schenn move back with Coots and Read and bring Raffl up to the first line again.

With the questionable signings that the Flyers have made, don't they deserve to be in the situation they are in? There are plenty of other teams that have the capability of spending right up to the cap, or throwing money at certain players that the flyers have but they don't. They should be commended for it, and they have the right to sit back and laugh at the Flyers situation. Everyone is on the same playing field here, I like how contracts are guaranteed, I find the upstairs part of the game almost as interesting as the play on the ice. Shame on the Flyers for signing Vinny, which was risky in that they signed a 33 yoa player to a 5 year contract.
- Just5

What you have to consider is that a lot of teams have internal budgets which is what keeps them from spending up to the cap. Not that they're so much better then the Flyers or any other team is in managing the Cap. It seems there is a lot of misconceptions that the Flyers are the only team that has to maneuver around the cap. And I think some fans really still can't grasp the philosophy of it. Such as always saying that team that is up against the cap, is in cap hell.