I think VLC is close to getting scratched now.
Umby may stick around on a 4th line.

At least till summer, then he'll get bought out.
- Marc D

If they really can't find any taker for VL, I would buy him out after the season. I would keep Umberger for one more year and just play him on the 4th line. Then, buy him out after next season. I don't think the Flyers will be players in next years FA, so one more year of Umberger may not hurt.

i think theyre gonna have to eat a big slice of buyout pie
- JoeRussomanno

Once again, Big Ed will buy the team out of a mess.

What does this even mean?
- MJL

Not going to elaborate

Once again, Big Ed will buy the team out of a mess.
- PhillySportsGuy

Might not have to do it again for awhile, though -- rest of the team's contracts are manageable, if not ideal

But to me, he needs to cut at least one more check. I think it should be Umberger, others think it should be Lecavalier, but either way, that check needs to get cut

Theres no question they've tuned Berube out. Their motto, which is so elegantly posted in the locker room, is the exact thing that drives a wedge between coaches/management and players.

Think about the difference between Chip Kelly's philosophy of speaking with players and getting their input and the Flyers philosophy of having the players toe the line and do exactly what they're told when they're told.

The drill sergeant mentality may have worked a long time ago, but these are different times.
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't even know where this is coming from. What evidence do you have that supports that's what the environment is, and that's what their philosophy is?

i know im late to the party but, PeB scratched and vinny/berger played? what (frank)ing purpose did that serve other than alienating tge rest of the team?
- JoeRussomanno

I don't understand the bridge jumping in here. There is only one logical answer. You play RJ and Vinny to get a good draft pick and potentially give them the opportunity to be tradable. Do you want to suck or do you want to really suck?

Oh and I told you all so on the Hartnell trade.

Might not have to do it again for awhile, though -- rest of the team's contracts are manageable, if not ideal

But to me, he needs to cut at least one more check. I think it should be Umberger, others think it should be Lecavalier, but either way, that check needs to get cut
- AllInForFlyers

Those buyout deals stay on their cap for a long time.

There is no good solution.

Might not have to do it again for awhile, though -- rest of the team's contracts are manageable, if not ideal

But to me, he needs to cut at least one more check. I think it should be Umberger, others think it should be Lecavalier, but either way, that check needs to get cut
- AllInForFlyers

I just hate the way Lecavalier doesn't even make an effort. Umberger just isn't good at hockey anymore, but he does try for the most part. Lecavalier looks like he doesn't give a poop anymore

Once again, Big Ed will buy the team out of a mess.
- PhillySportsGuy

But he won't be able to as it will cut into the cap and make the overall product lesser. I think Hexy tries a bad contract for bad contract. Who is available? I would have said Weiss a month ago.

Those buyout deals stay on their cap for a long time.

There is no good solution.
- Marc D

Being a good manager means making the best of the bad situations

No, it's not ideal. It's not.

But dead money is dead money, and having players who can't play is just as bad as any other scenario, because you don't want losers taking hold in the dressing room

They are slow. There are times when they play faster, but overall, they lack speed. It was something I thought they could have addressed in the offseason. For some reason, they thought Umberger was so much faster than Hartnell. It's like they didn't watch this guy play all last season.
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't think they're a fast team, but they aren't slow either. The problem is that they play slow and stand around at times. OB18 had it right. They often stand around and watch or glide to the puck, while another player from the opposition scoops in and gets the puck. Look at the shorthanded goal then gave up in game 1. 4 players below the goal line, with two watching the puck, while the Rangers won the puck battle and headed up ice 3-1 shorthanded.

Berube said PEB was "not digging in hard enough", whatever that means.

I'm pretty sure Vinnie hasn't been digging in either.
- Marc D

da fuq... ok im ready to turn the page on him... the double standard goes back to lavy ... wonder if he learned bad habits under him, perhaps he was brought up too soon

I hinted at that the other week -- I wouldn't have scratched Schenn for poor play when you didn't scratch guys who had been worse than him first

To me, that's how you lose those guys who are on the fence -- I do believe that theory of 25 percent of the guys like you, 25 percent of the guys hate you, and your job is to manage the other 50 percent who are on the fence

You lose the guys on the fence the quickest, I feel, when you have double standards about accountability -- most players understand guys like Giroux will get a little slack, but you can't ream out, say, Luke Schenn, who plays hard, when players see film of Umberger dogging it, not making it to center ice, then drawing an icing and you get scored on two shifts later after getting pinned in your own zone
- AllInForFlyers

I think we're going to start seeing things change. A coach is going to give players some time, especially veterans to get it together. If they don't then ice time is going to be cut. Players are going to be scratched. The quarter pole of the season is normally a bench mark. Enough time to evaluate the team.

But he won't be able to as it will cut into the cap and make the overall product lesser. I think Hexy tries a bad contract for bad contract. Who is available? I would have said Weiss a month ago.
- coffee junkie

I feel thats kinda pointless though. No team is going to trade a bad player on an expiring deal for a bad player on a longer deal

Exactly. The players know who is playing well and who they want on the ice. I'm sure they're asking the same questions we are about why Umberger is getting fairly consistent ice time and Bellemare is sitting in the press box.

I'll be honest, I haven't seen anything from Bellemare that makes me believe he isn't working hard. It's absurd to sit him and say he doesn't work hard enough while Lecavalier continues to casually play 'hockey'. The only time this guy gives a poop is when the team is about to go on a 5 on 3. Thats when he feels the need to ramp things up.
- PhillySportsGuy

Bellemare's play has absolutely deteriorated over the last few weeks. He's not the only one. Lecavalier played a little over 5 minutes today.

I think Hexy has a hand in this. I really do. Obviously when they scratch umberger and lecavalier, it's hard to engage in trade talks when that happens. The players aren't dumb, the fans aren't dumb, other teams aren't dumb.

It's just not possible that a hockey coach can honestly assess the play of PEB, umberger, and vinny. Then pick PEB as the one to sit

poops going to go down soon. Whether it be a trade, or just the plug pulled on the 2 corpses.
- Just5

Right now, if the Flyers scratched Lecavalier, it wouldn't change anything in the trade market for Lecavalier one iota. Because there is no trade market for Lecavalier now.

Might have to find a happy medium and trade for a guy that needs a change of scenery. I'd use Phaneuf as an example though I would hardly get excited about that particular move.

da fuq... ok im ready to turn the page on him... the double standard goes back to lavy ... wonder if he learned bad habits under him, perhaps he was brought up too soon
- JoeRussomanno

I think he wanted a more physical line up today going with Luke ( who played pretty well) and VDV.

I think that is ok.
But Couts and Read and Umby played big minutes.

I'd rather see PEB on that wing and Umby on the 4th line.

Whatever it wasn't the reason they lost.

Might have to find a happy medium and trade for a guy that needs a change of scenery. I'd use Phaneuf as an example though I would badly get excited about that particular move.
- hereticpride

i was just thinking; hmm how are those laughs doing?

I just hate the way Lecavalier doesn't even make an effort. Umberger just isn't good at hockey anymore, but he does try for the most part. Lecavalier looks like he doesn't give a poop anymore
- PhillySportsGuy

No jump whatsoever. He's actually playing worse now then he was last year when he had an injury. Simply not moving his feet, and not competing.

I feel thats kinda pointless though. No team is going to trade a bad player on an expiring deal for a bad player on a longer deal
- PhillySportsGuy

Agreed, it's a hail marry. 2 year contract for 2 year contract or 3 year for 3 year. Suck for suck and hope it creates a spark/ change of scenery/ other cliché.

Trading Vl will come down to VL waiving for a non contender. I think the FLyers could easily find a team to take him if they pay $2 million each of his last 3 years. Even less.

Trading Vl will come down to VL waiving for a non contender. I think the FLyers could easily find a team to take him if they pay $2 million each of his last 3 years. Even less.
- jstross

Then do it if they can

How can he want to stay here playing 5 minutes on the 4th line?

He'd be crazy not to waive his NTC

Then do it if they can

How can he want to stay here playing 5 minutes on the 4th line?

He'd be crazy not to waive his NTC
- Marc D

That's why Hexy/Berube needs to stay the course and leave him on the 4th line.

Trading Vl will come down to VL waiving for a non contender. I think the FLyers could easily find a team to take him if they pay $2 million each of his last 3 years. Even less.
- jstross

That was my feeling as well but if he isn't producing points he's not going to be useful to any team. Maybe he could help put some butts in seats for the Panthers just based off name value but even that is extremely doubtful. I don't even think an expansion draft could free us of him.