This is the usual "blah blah blah" about how guys like Phillips and Neil can't skate, and are holding the team back... yet every single year Phillips seems to magically play over 20min/gp, and Neil finds his way to the top-10 of the league of hits and/or PIM. Fittingly, Phillips is currently 2nd on the team in ice time (nearly 23min/gp), and Neil is currently 9th in the league in hits. Phillips also has the 2nd best +/- rating on the team and leads the team in SH ice time... while Neil is one of only 4 regular forwards to have a + rating, is 2nd on the team in fights, and has scored as many or more goals as Zibanejad, Michalek, Legwand, or Smith... in spite of having the least ice time of any player on the team.

There's a reason they both have an 'A', and a reason why the team doesn't just toss them aside when they're icing one of the youngest teams in the NHL. I'll agree that Neil is certainly limited to being a role player, but he continues to be a valuable contributor in that role. Not to mention that if the team is struggling as a whole, there are an awful lot of guys I'd be inclined to lay the blame on before I got around to #25.
- khawk

a. A player getting ice-time under MacLean doesn't mean all that much.
b. Chris Phillips has the second worse Corsi for % on the team this year. Neil's 5th worst.
c. +/- is not a very meaningful statistic
d. Did you seriously just suggest that being in the top 10 in the league in PIM is a good thing? Seriously?! Especially on a team that has had such trouble with taking too many penalties in the past. That's absolutely crazy.
e. Hits? I'm not saying they're unimportant, but if that's your most valuable contribution, it's a problem.

I will admit that Neil has been better than usual this year.

a. A player getting ice-time under MacLean doesn't mean all that much.
b. Chris Phillips has the second worse Corsi for % on the team this year. Neil's 5th worst.
c. +/- is not a very meaningful statistic
d. Did you seriously just suggest that being in the top 10 in the league in PIM is a good thing? Seriously?! Especially on a team that has had such trouble with taking too many penalties in the past. That's absolutely crazy.
e. Hits? I'm not saying they're unimportant, but if that's your most valuable contribution, it's a problem.

I will admit that Neil has been better than usual this year.
- amanicom

a. Really? So it's some kind of accident that Karlsson and Turris are the other top-3 players in terms of ice time? Many people seemed to believe that Phillips might barely be a #6 defenceman this year... clearly, that's not the case.

b. Corsi or not, Phillips has still played over 3.5min/gp more than any other defenceman not named Karlsson. It's not ideal to have him playing that much, but he's still an important part of the team.

c. There's nothing wrong with +/-... it just doesn't mean what some people think it means. There have only been 4 ES goals scored against the Senators with Neil on the ice, which really doesn't support the claim that he's some kind of persistent liability. For reference, that's less than 1/4 of the ES goals scored when Turris or MacArthur have been on the ice.

d. When your NHL career is based on fighting and physical play, then yes penalty minutes can be viewed as evidence that you're doing your job. Do you Seriously?! not understand that, or that offsetting fighting majors and misconducts don't result in PP opportunities? Did you know that the 4 least penalized teams in the NHL last year either had a player on their roster with a comparable PIM/gp rate as Neil, or actively traded for a fighter over the course of the season? Care to guess why?

e. Unless your job is to get hits and stand up for your teammates, which has been Chris Neil's job for the past 13 years, and earned him an 'A' on his jersey.

Thankfully, the team isn't quite so dismissive or ignorant of the value of these players.

a. Really? So it's some kind of accident that Karlsson and Turris are the other top-3 players in terms of ice time? Many people seemed to believe that Phillips might barely be a #6 defenceman this year... clearly, that's not the case.

b. Corsi or not, Phillips has still played over 3.5min/gp more than any other defenceman not named Karlsson. It's not ideal to have him playing that much, but he's still an important part of the team.

c. There's nothing wrong with +/-... it just doesn't mean what some people think it means. There have only been 4 ES goals scored against the Senators with Neil on the ice, which really doesn't support the claim that he's some kind of persistent liability. For reference, that's less than 1/4 of the ES goals scored when Turris or MacArthur have been on the ice.

d. When your NHL career is based on fighting and physical play, then yes penalty minutes can be viewed as evidence that you're doing your job. Do you Seriously?! not understand that, or that offsetting fighting majors and misconducts don't result in PP opportunities? Did you know that the 4 least penalized teams in the NHL last year either had a player on their roster with a comparable PIM/gp rate as Neil, or actively traded for a fighter over the course of the season? Care to guess why?

e. Unless your job is to get hits and stand up for your teammates, which has been Chris Neil's job for the past 13 years, and earned him an 'A' on his jersey.

Thankfully, the team isn't quite so dismissive or ignorant of the value of these players.
- khawk

first, neil is on pace for about 8 fights this year, so not really helping in that way. he also takes about 40-50 minor penalties a year, usually of the idiotic type (holding, tripping, interference) because he isn't good or fast enough to play against more skilled players.......he constantly puts the team at a disadvantage. either he's taking dumb penalties to put them down a man, or he's actually on the ice where he isn't a capable hockey player anymore.

we have guys like boro, gryba, smith, etc who can bring that physical edge to a game, and actually can play hockey too.

i like neil, he's been a warrior for this team in the past.....but the past should be left where it is. RIGHT NOW he doens't contribute in a positive way to this team, nothing good happnes when he's on the ice, and worst of all....he's taking a roster spot away from players who are CLEARLY better than he is.

a. Really? So it's some kind of accident that Karlsson and Turris are the other top-3 players in terms of ice time? Many people seemed to believe that Phillips might barely be a #6 defenceman this year... clearly, that's not the case.

b. Corsi or not, Phillips has still played over 3.5min/gp more than any other defenceman not named Karlsson. It's not ideal to have him playing that much, but he's still an important part of the team.

c. There's nothing wrong with +/-... it just doesn't mean what some people think it means. There have only been 4 ES goals scored against the Senators with Neil on the ice, which really doesn't support the claim that he's some kind of persistent liability. For reference, that's less than 1/4 of the ES goals scored when Turris or MacArthur have been on the ice.

d. When your NHL career is based on fighting and physical play, then yes penalty minutes can be viewed as evidence that you're doing your job. Do you Seriously?! not understand that, or that offsetting fighting majors and misconducts don't result in PP opportunities? Did you know that the 4 least penalized teams in the NHL last year either had a player on their roster with a comparable PIM/gp rate as Neil, or actively traded for a fighter over the course of the season? Care to guess why?

e. Unless your job is to get hits and stand up for your teammates, which has been Chris Neil's job for the past 13 years, and earned him an 'A' on his jersey.

Thankfully, the team isn't quite so dismissive or ignorant of the value of these players.
- khawk

i think you're having a hard time differentiating Neil from what he WAS to what he IS RIGHT NOW.

i think you're having a hard time differentiating Neil from what he WAS to what he IS RIGHT NOW.
- sensarmy_11

Not at all - in fact, I was shocked to see anyone suggest that Neil has been better this year than in past years. I just feel he still brings a useful element to the team, which really isn't present in the other forwards... especially since Smith has apparently decided to neither fight or put up points this year, and he currently has more than twice as many hits as the next two forwards combined.