You mean #3, right? Which one plays with Karlsson, because the revolving door isn't working. Karlsson needs someone who can play a solid 20 minutes with him 5 on 5, and then the other pairs can fall into place. The mix and match in game because nobody can hang with EK means constant flux. Ceci-Cowen is relatively consistent but the other 3 on any given night, whether it be Phillips/Wiercioch, Gryba and Borowiecki need to limit their minutes to be successful.

And BTW The last thing PIT needs is a defenseman. They are loaded and have 2 or 3 NHL calibre guys in the minors.
- JaredCrozier

That's the thing, everyone is raving about Weircoche the last couple of games but he is playing with EK so I think that helps, he's the West Coast Filip Kuba in almost every way, tall, really laid back play, good passer - kinda soft but not afraid.

I'm not anti Methot but it seems like him and Ottawa aren't on the same page, last seasons benching and this season early angry talk from Dorion, just seems to me like there's something under the surface that happened - maybe Methot asked to wear #11 or something? Or he got drunk and tried to kiss Maclean? Or Maclean got drunk and tried to kiss him through the Mustache?

Just seems like Murray loves making moves and Methot is a really nice chip to play for a playoff team looking for a veteran D with no long term money to carry - and Ottawa has been setting it up that way going public with the negotiations and already threatening to move him (they also did the same thing with Phillips so maybe it's just all posturing)

You mean #3, right? Which one plays with Karlsson, because the revolving door isn't working. Karlsson needs someone who can play a solid 20 minutes with him 5 on 5, and then the other pairs can fall into place. The mix and match in game because nobody can hang with EK means constant flux. Ceci-Cowen is relatively consistent but the other 3 on any given night, whether it be Phillips/Wiercioch, Gryba and Borowiecki need to limit their minutes to be successful.

And BTW The last thing PIT needs is a defenseman. They are loaded and have 2 or 3 NHL calibre guys in the minors.
- JaredCrozier

In fact, if both teams were smart there would be an Eberle for Scott Harrington and Brian Dumoulin deal to be made there somewhere. But I digress

I think Eberle's a great talent, but I'm not sold on him being a good fit in Ottawa. Turris and Grizz aren't that big and Chiasson is a bit of a bean pole, though he does a great job of getting into the tough areas. I'd just like to see someone who can stand up to bigger defencemen in the league and play the net presence that the team seems to be missing at times.

That said, I haven't yet seen it in the comments, but for not being much of a Cowan supporter over the last season and a bit he had a GREAT game last night. Picked his spot well for a big hit in the third and was consistently moving the puck out of trouble areas. His positioning was better than it's been often times this season as well.
- LondonSen

Agree on both counts. Eberle doesn't add anything we don't already have and his price will be steep.

Ditto on Cowan. He has been much better of late. The odd bad play, but what young player isn't immune to that? They are certainly not as common as before.

I totally agree we have the depth. However, it's a bit naive to list our roster players then go on and use Boston and LA as examples. The Kopitars, Bergerons, Carters, Krecjis, etc are not in this system yet. I know people are high on guys like Lazar and Turris, but jury is still out on those guys. Lazar deserves more time before any huge expectations are laid on him. We have the depth I believe (in Stone, Hoffman, Chaisson, Zibby, etc). The only argument that we have more than that up front is purely based on potential and hype. Game breaking ability on a consistent basis is needed up front. Having brought that up, last night was a real good start.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

You know, at some point in time, franchises had to wait for all these guys you listed to become good enough to dominate games...

I mean, if you want to run out and sign some big ticket player that's your opinion, and I disagree with it, but what's naive is believing that all the guys you listed were superstars out of the gate in their first full NHL seasons.

Jeff Carter took 3 years to break 50 points, and another to score a point per game and be talked about like a star.

David Krejci isn't even a superstar, but for the sake of comparison he spent two years bouncing back and forth between the AHL and NHL before he finally broke out. Even now, he's a positive possession guy who puts up 60-70 ponts a year. Not much different than Turris.

Patrice Bergeron, much like Lazar now, came into the league as an 18 year old, and put up around 40 points while being lauded for his defensive play.

Kopitar is the one real exception there, but he was legitimately a star immediately.

It's called development, and it is a lot more important to team success than one high scoring forward could ever hope to be.

I would love to see thEm try this lineup

Mac Turris Stone
Hoffman Lazar Ryan
Zibanjad Legwand Chiasson
Mihalek Smith Condra

You know, at some point in time, franchises had to wait for all these guys you listed to become good enough to dominate games...

I mean, if you want to run out and sign some big ticket player that's your opinion, and I disagree with it, but what's naive is believing that all the guys you listed were superstars out of the gate in their first full NHL seasons.

Jeff Carter took 3 years to break 50 points, and another to score a point per game and be talked about like a star.

David Krejci isn't even a superstar, but for the sake of comparison he spent two years bouncing back and forth between the AHL and NHL before he finally broke out. Even now, he's a positive possession guy who puts up 60-70 ponts a year. Not much different than Turris.

Patrice Bergeron, much like Lazar now, came into the league as an 18 year old, and put up around 40 points while being lauded for his defensive play.

Kopitar is the one real exception there, but he was legitimately a star immediately.

It's called development, and it is a lot more important to team success than one high scoring forward could ever hope to be.
- TommyDeVito

I think the difference in our opinions is the thinking of these players ceilings. I think of all the guys, Lazar has the best shot at being a special player. Not every Ottawa player will turn into a great player. It just doesn't happen. For every Patrice Bergeron, there is a Zach Hamill.

I'm not necessarily saying go out and get a top line guy nor am I saying you have to see statistical success at age 19, 20, or 21. I am on the same page as you that development is the most important step. I think I am just a bit more cautious at the amount of success all of these guys will have. As I said, I don't necessarily see any of our roster players right now judging from play on the ice, turning into a special player besides Lazar. Am I right? Certainly not. Are you right these players will turn into something special? Certainly not as well. We won't know for a few more years down the road.

Developing every single young guy does not guarantees success. You have to have the right player with the right organization. It's not easy. If it was, looking back on drafts would not be as interesting as it is.

I have been commenting the last couple of weeks that Neil is done. The team would be significantly better with Condra playing and Neil out.

He is too slow. He can't hit anymore because he can't catch guys. He takes a dumb penalty almost every game. He contributes no offense and is terrible in the defensive zone.

I know he has been a warrior for this franchise and wears the 'A'. But he is hurting the team on the ice now.
- maaddmike

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills ! Yes Neil is slower (I'll give you that) but to think that Neil doesn't bring value to this team (even over a guy like Michalek, Greening) is foolish. EASILY leads the team in hits. I'm not trying to put anyone down but what the hell are you guys watching? Did you not see them play the Blues last night. If Neil's out who do you think protects these guys? Who do you think is speaking in the locker room during intermissions, on the bench, pumping the fans on home ice. YES, he's slow. I get it it. He's not himself. I'll take a slow heart and soul guy over a inconsistent greening, michalek any day. Zibanejad... maybe not. IF anyone says he isn't tough or can't hit ..8th in the NHL (smh)

speaking of young guys, this is kinda cool bit by tsn on the hoff

http://www.tsn.ca/video/t...tically-speaking-1.145233

again, i would LOVE to see hoffman get some top 6 time...

Completely disagree with this assessment.

Our forwards are very young and extremely deep, we just have to let them develop. Look how far Hoffman, Stone, Turris, Lazar have come already in a short span.

It's not inconceivable that we get 3-4 70 point players out of these guys in their prime in a few years. We don't need one 90 point guy, I would think that would be pretty obvious with the recent cup winners that you don't need that nowadays.

LA and Boston won cups without anyone scoring over a point per game all season.

They did it with deep, strong defense and two-way forwards. We have the two-way forwards in the system already.

We need defensemen. We should be drafting defensemen high, and looking for a deal to bring in that marquee guy to make up a truly unstoppable top pairing with Karlsson.
- TommyDeVito

I agree for the most part..... Sens lack top line forwards, #2 D-man on a cup contender (seabrook, Jay-boy, etc) + cowen to STEP up/consistent on left side with Ceci. On D it's looking good on paper for once but still need players to show they belong their for good.

Up front Turris is a 1b/2a... Lazar has the most promise but doesn't look to be a big point getter (70pts). Could happen though in his prime. Hoffman and Stone... could see 2nd line wingers; not 1st line. That leaves Ryan (he has to show he can skate consistently /get health; Puempel still hard to stay against more 2nd line winger likely than top line. Jury still out on the rest

I agree for the most part..... Sens lack top line forwards, #2 D-man on a cup contender (seabrook, Jay-boy, etc) + cowen to STEP up/consistent on left side with Ceci. On D it's looking good on paper for once but still need players to show they belong their for good.

Up front Turris is a 1b/2a... Lazar has the most promise but doesn't look to be a big point getter (70pts). Could happen though in his prime. Hoffman and Stone... could see 2nd line wingers; not 1st line. That leaves Ryan (he has to show he can skate consistently /get health; Puempel still hard to stay against more 2nd line winger likely than top line. Jury still out on the rest
- AlfieisKing

EDM: Zibby, Anderson
Ott: Eberle

EDM: Zibby, Anderson
Ott: Eberle
- tuna99

i don't really think eberle brings THAT much of what we don't already have developing... and i wouldnt trade zibby and anderson for him, not at this point. esp. since we don't know what we have with zib yet.

i don't really think eberle brings THAT much of what we don't already have developing... and i wouldnt trade zibby and anderson for him, not at this point. esp. since we don't know what we have with zib yet.
- sen_smile

He's a point a game player and has that magic to his game, if he is available this would give us the best RW in hockey - back to the Alfie, Hossa, Havlat days.

Ryan
Eberle
Stone

He's a point a game player and has that magic to his game, if he is available this would give us the best RW in hockey - back to the Alfie, Hossa, Havlat days.

Ryan
Eberle
Stone
- tuna99

he's a great player but i'm not sure he's what we need, and i don't like the cost of zibby and anderson at this point, esp. because what kind of player zib is gonna be is kinda unclear. i guess i wouldnt want to give him up for eberle, or at least not him and anderson. i mean if it were meth and andy, then yah i'd be intrigued- but of course, no way edm does that.

in other news, apparently bm referred to our d as "disturbing".... that's news and a far cry from approaches to d problems in the past. wonder if something is up.

PLAY MIKA ON WING. We have a lot of RWs on the team, not enough natural LWs so lets try this (after the next Sens loss or if #14 sucks):

When it comes to EDM, seems like Perron would cost less than Eberle; athough Ebs is exactly (almost) what the Sens need - a top line goal scorer. It would take a package like the one listed earlier (Anderson + Methot + pick). Personally replace that pick with Greening. But all that garbage aside..... who's our 2nd line center now??

EDM: Zibby, Anderson
Ott: Eberle
- tuna99

Good thought and very close to value to both teams.. still need to include condar or greening to free up a roster spot.

He's a point a game player and has that magic to his game, if he is available this would give us the best RW in hockey - back to the Alfie, Hossa, Havlat days.

Ryan
Eberle
Stone
- tuna99

yes but our center ice?? ...u need 3 centers to contend

he's a great player but i'm not sure he's what we need, and i don't like the cost of zibby and anderson at this point, esp. because what kind of player zib is gonna be is kinda unclear. i guess i wouldnt want to give him up for eberle, or at least not him and anderson. i mean if it were meth and andy, then yah i'd be intrigued- but of course, no way edm does that.

in other news, apparently bm referred to our d as "disturbing".... that's news and a far cry from approaches to d problems in the past. wonder if something is up.
- sen_smile

I heard the press conference and I could be wrong but I heard the "disturbing" as applying to the overall team defense in their own end and not necessarily just the Dmen.

There is no doubt that Ottawa takes better care of their own end whenever Condra is on the ice. Not sure what he does differently but he is incredibly effective in supporting puck movement to the bad guys end of the rink.

I think the difference in our opinions is the thinking of these players ceilings. I think of all the guys, Lazar has the best shot at being a special player. Not every Ottawa player will turn into a great player. It just doesn't happen. For every Patrice Bergeron, there is a Zach Hamill.

I'm not necessarily saying go out and get a top line guy nor am I saying you have to see statistical success at age 19, 20, or 21. I am on the same page as you that development is the most important step. I think I am just a bit more cautious at the amount of success all of these guys will have. As I said, I don't necessarily see any of our roster players right now judging from play on the ice, turning into a special player besides Lazar. Am I right? Certainly not. Are you right these players will turn into something special? Certainly not as well. We won't know for a few more years down the road.

Developing every single young guy does not guarantees success. You have to have the right player with the right organization. It's not easy. If it was, looking back on drafts would not be as interesting as it is.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Get out of my head, Gord. Jesus.

yes but our center ice?? ...u need 3 centers to contend
- AlfieisKing

Murray was very clear that Pageau should not have been sent down. His words were "it was unfair." I think that you can expect a call up of Pageau very soon.

I heard the press conference and I could be wrong but I heard the "disturbing" as applying to the overall team defense in their own end and not necessarily just the Dmen.

There is no doubt that Ottawa takes better care of their own end whenever Condra is on the ice. Not sure what he does differently but he is incredibly effective in supporting puck movement to the bad guys end of the rink.
- spatso

oh ok. that could be it. i was going by twitter quotes,, not the actual interview. both make sense though, but maybe this kills any possible talk of a move on or from d.

i have no understanding why people hate on condra. i suppose an argument could be made not to re-sign him, providing younger guys that fit his mold in the minors continue to develop, but really he is cheap, effective, and damn good at the things he can do (prevent goals). i'd love to see him on a shut down line with pageau. far more effective than any combo involving any of the likes of greening, neil and/or smith.

Murray was very clear that Pageau should not have been sent down. His words were "it was unfair." I think that you can expect a call up of Pageau very soon.
- spatso

Turris - a 1b/2a
Lazar - about 2 years away from being a legit 2nd line center
Pageau - tons of heart but 5'9!
Smith/Legwand - 4th line centers

That's a going to contend for a cup in 2.5 years? We can't give up a 21 year old Dman like Zibanejad unless we're going to do something about our center ice position.

Ottawa Senators Biggest Needs (aside from defensive poise)

Top 2 Center: Turris can't do it alone; especially since he isn't a #1a center [yet; maybe never]. Zibanejad or Lazar will compete for this role with Lazar looking better right now for the role; how much can change in a month. Could say your need is a #1 center although teams have won with 2 really strong #2s (Boston with Krejci + Bergeron)

Top 2 LW: With Chiasson, Ryan [both top 30 RWs in scoring], Stone; the Sens don't look weak on RW. Chiasson and Stone still have a lot to prove to show they are line 2wingers long term. On LW it's not as pretty. MacArthur, similar to Turris is a 1b, 2a(+). Hoffman and Puempel (many people to jump) are most likely to compete for that 2nd line LW spot long term. Greening + Michalek can compete for the over-payed underachieving 3rd line LW spot; although Condra may fit better on that if he's resigned.

2nd/top pairing D-man: Someone to play with Erik Karlsson. Someone that can log big minutes and be the team's most reliable defensive player. Now Mark Methot fits the bill but if he's on the top of his game. No reason why he won't but Ottawa still needs one more D-man on the left side. If Methot isn't retained your banking on Cowen to take big strides in the next 1-2 years. No one else in the organization can play that role. Boroweici is a loong shot.

Top 4D man: Again on the left side. Cowen falls here if Methot is retained or another left hand shot comes in to play with Karlsson. Otherwise Boroweici or Weircioch have to step up their game. These are all a lot of 'ifs'

Conclusion: Sens have these 4 needs to be true contenders. They can certainly look within to develop these players. But they will likely have to make atleast 1 or 2 moves to acquire them (#2D, #2 Left Wing)

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills ! Yes Neil is slower (I'll give you that) but to think that Neil doesn't bring value to this team (even over a guy like Michalek, Greening) is foolish.
- AlfieisKing

This is the usual "blah blah blah" about how guys like Phillips and Neil can't skate, and are holding the team back... yet every single year Phillips seems to magically play over 20min/gp, and Neil finds his way to the top-10 of the league of hits and/or PIM. Fittingly, Phillips is currently 2nd on the team in ice time (nearly 23min/gp), and Neil is currently 9th in the league in hits. Phillips also has the 2nd best +/- rating on the team and leads the team in SH ice time... while Neil is one of only 4 regular forwards to have a + rating, is 2nd on the team in fights, and has scored as many or more goals as Zibanejad, Michalek, Legwand, or Smith... in spite of having the least ice time of any player on the team.

There's a reason they both have an 'A', and a reason why the team doesn't just toss them aside when they're icing one of the youngest teams in the NHL. I'll agree that Neil is certainly limited to being a role player, but he continues to be a valuable contributor in that role. Not to mention that if the team is struggling as a whole, there are an awful lot of guys I'd be inclined to lay the blame on before I got around to #25.

A-(franking)-men^

take out neil [mentioned more than #4] u lose presence big time!

Ottawa Senators Biggest Needs (aside from defensive poise)

So, again patience my young buck..... we are allowing the youth to develop

Top 2 Center: Turris can't do it alone; especially since he isn't a #1a center
- AlfieisKing[yet; maybe never]. Zibanejad or Lazar will compete for this role with Lazar looking better right now for the role; how much can change in a month. Could say your need is a #1 center although teams have won with 2 really strong #2s (Boston with Krejci + Bergeron)

the potential is there .... Zibby, Lazar, Alex Guptill

Top 2 LW: With Chiasson, Ryan [both top 30 RWs in scoring], Stone; the Sens don't look weak on RW. Chiasson and Stone still have a lot to prove to show they are line 2wingers long term. On LW it's not as pretty. MacArthur, similar to Turris is a 1b, 2a(+). Hoffman and Puempel (many people to jump) are most likely to compete for that 2nd line LW spot long term. Greening + Michalek can compete for the over-payed underachieving 3rd line LW spot; although Condra may fit better on that if he's resigned.

Peumple

2nd/top pairing D-man: Someone to play with Erik Karlsson. Someone that can log big minutes and be the team's most reliable defensive player. Now Mark Methot fits the bill but if he's on the top of his game. No reason why he won't but Ottawa still needs one more D-man on the left side. If Methot isn't retained your banking on Cowen to take big strides in the next 1-2 years. No one else in the organization can play that role. Boroweici is a loong shot.

Ceci

Top 4D man: Again on the left side. Cowen falls here if Methot is retained or another left hand shot comes in to play with Karlsson. Otherwise Boroweici or Weircioch have to step up their game. These are all a lot of 'ifs'

as you said, Cowen, Weircoch,

Conclusion: Sens have these 4 needs to be true contenders. They can certainly look within to develop these players. But they will likely have to make atleast 1 or 2 moves to acquire them (#2D, #2 Left Wing)

the moves that may need to be made can be made in the years when they are close to being a contender .... i.e. in a year or two....