However, it was a late first, a falling 1st round prospect, a complimentary player that could maybe pot 20 if he was playing with the best player on the planet but was otherwise a 3rd liner, and a shootout specialist not good enough for the 2nd line but with the wrong skillset for the 3rd or 4th line center.

Armstrong & Christensen were essentially Comeau & Spaling with less physical sides.
- ScienceJesus

Don't forget that Dupuis was part of that trade as well.

Tough pill to swallow. MacArthur is exactly what they need(ed).
- Ryan_Wilson

He was. I always remembered him giving the Pens fits in TO. He can flat out fly.

However, it was a late first, a falling 1st round prospect, a complimentary player that could maybe pot 20 if he was playing with the best player on the planet but was otherwise a 3rd liner, and a shootout specialist not good enough for the 2nd line but with the wrong skillset for the 3rd or 4th line center.

Armstrong & Christensen were essentially Comeau & Spaling with less physical sides.
- ScienceJesus

Not sure what the read on Esposito was at the time, but I cant see moving 2 bottom 6 guys at this point either. That would be 3 guys out of the lineup (dupes) and only Kane coming back. Who steps in for Spaling and Comeau?

I could see Peg wanting Sutter, 1st, Pouliott and another roster player. Not even sure that would get it done. Who fills the gap for Sutter?

Don't forget that Dupuis was part of that trade as well.
- cap1681

Exactly. If you essentially say that Duper is offset by Esposito in that trade, then it's Hossa for 1st, Christensen & Armstrong. If Kane is costing about what Hossa did, then that's Comeau & Spaling & a 1st. I do that deal in a heartbeat & look for cheap deals to fill their spots with NHL caliber bottom 6 players.

Tough pill to swallow. MacArthur is exactly what they need(ed).
- Ryan_Wilson

and hes a heart and soul guy, something ottawa needs, so i doubt hes going anywhere, plus im pretty sure he has a relatively easy contract to accept...hed probably cost one of our top d prospects and a pick if not a rostered player

Not sure what the read on Esposito was at the time, but I cant see moving 2 bottom 6 guys at this point either. That would be 3 guys out of the lineup (dupes) and only Kane coming back. Who steps in for Spaling and Comeau?

I could see Peg wanting Sutter, 1st, Pouliott and another roster player. Not even sure that would get it done. Who fills the gap for Sutter?
- sammy87

The read on him at the time was "there's a reason he went from being a sure-thing top-3 pick in the draft to falling into the 20's & we're seeing why right now". His stock was in freefall from before the draft until the Pens dealt him. If the draft was re-done when they unloaded him, he'd be a late 2nd to mid-3rd round pick at best.

Also, using the Duper injury as part of the "3 guys off the roster" argument against it is a little disingenuous. But I see what you're saying.

Exactly. If you essentially say that Duper is offset by Esposito in that trade, then it's Hossa for 1st, Christensen & Armstrong. If Kane is costing about what Hossa did, then that's Comeau & Spaling & a 1st. I do that deal in a heartbeat & look for cheap deals to fill their spots with NHL caliber bottom 6 players.
- ScienceJesus

Difference between Hossa and Kane is that Hossa was a rental. Kane has 3 more years after this season on his contract.

Difference between Hossa and Kane is that Hossa was a rental. Kane has 3 more years after this season on his contract.
- cap1681

Not disagreeing. Just responding to whoever said that said the starting price would be about the same as Hossa cost. Hossa was a more dynamic player at the time that he was dealt but Kane has term left. Do those balance each other out? I don't know.

Lots of teams have 3 or more quality defensive prospects.

I already hashed out the Blues when it was brought up - they've got a bunch of prospects on defense. Schmaltz was a 1st rounder in 2012, Vanelli a 2nd the same year, etc.

There's maybe two teams in the entire league with a lack of D prospects - Senators and Blue Jackets, and in both of those cases it's partially because they've already got their "prospects" up in the NHL.
- hardnosed

If you think schmaltz and Vanelli are on the same level as Harrington and pouliot then you are mistaken. Schmaltz is probably closer to despres, which is a hit or miss top 4 guy.

If you think schmaltz and Vanelli are on the same level as Harrington and pouliot then you are mistaken. Schmaltz is probably closer to despres, which is a hit or miss top 4 guy.
- drummer829

Nice strawman.

Point remains, St. Louis is not wanting for defensive prospects.

If you think schmaltz and Vanelli are on the same level as Harrington and pouliot then you are mistaken. Schmaltz is probably closer to despres, which is a hit or miss top 4 guy.
- drummer829

Schmaltz compares closely to Philip Samuelsson as a player. Vanelli is in limbo as a player too. Switching leagues and lack of development projects him as 3-4 years out.

Dumoulin again jumps to the top of their prospect pool in defenders.

Schmaltz compares closely to Philip Samuelsson as a player. Vanelli is in limbo as a player too. Switching leagues and lack of development projects him as 3-4 years out.

- usethe1-2-2

Schmaltz is nothing like Samuelsson. Skilled, slick, future PP QB if he makes it.

And your Vannelli comments seem equally made up out of the blue. Vanelli has 9 goals in 20 games for Medicine Hat so far this year. How is that a "lack of development?"

I wonder what the going rate on this handsome devil would be, get it devil....ok that was bad.

3-2-15-68
- nbartley9

F bad jokes

I would hope PM would land a bit of a bigger fish than Etem. Pens need depth, make it happen. Then use PM, 1st for something bigger.
- sammy87

I think a FW NHL-ready prospect and a draft pick is about what you'll get for a UFA-to-be D-man rental.

If you think you're getting someone like Kane, Eberle, or any other top 6 winger with contract term as the big piece coming back for P Mart, you're kidding yourselves.

Schmaltz is nothing like Samuelsson. Skilled, slick, future PP QB if he makes it.

And your Vannelli comments seem equally made up out of the blue. Vanelli has 9 goals in 20 games for Medicine Hat so far this year. How is that a "lack of development?"
- hardnosed

Vannelli is only offense, he has years before his game develops. He avoided the NCAA route so that he could showcase his offensive skill set more. He isn't becoming anything more than he already showcased.

As for Schmaltz, your right I had the wrong prospect info. He is a skinny, skilled defender that was called a serious project. How is that better than an already proven 6'4 defender with pk,pp, and even strength abilites already at an NHL level?

Let's not talk about trading away from our depth anymore. I mean it doesn't make sense to trade players buried in the depth charts (respectively) for one another.

Vannelli is only offense, he has years before his game develops. He avoided the NCAA route so that he could showcase his offensive skill set more. He isn't becoming anything more than he already showcased.

As for Schmaltz, your right I had the wrong prospect info. He is a skinny, skilled defender that was called a serious project. How is that better than an already proven 6'4 defender with pk,pp, and even strength abilites already at an NHL level?
- usethe1-2-2

6 NHL games and Dumoulin is proven?

And you're attacking the strawman, too. All I said regarding the Blues was that they have their own D prospects, just like most teams. Never started comparing their prospects to ours.

Flyers want eberle and or yak

Caps want perron

Edm is going to have a fire sale haha

Flyers want eberle and or yak

Caps want perron

Edm is going to have a fire sale haha
- nh4442

They have to do something. After all these years you would think they'd compete for not terribleth place, but the results never improve.

They have to do something. After all these years you would think they'd compete for not terribleth place, but the results never improve.
- BulliesPhan87

Coburn and schenn for yaks? Don't the flyers need defense? They lose a competent 2nd/3rd center and a solid dman for a kid who still hasn't proven much. I mean yaks with giroux could look good in 3 years, but I don't see how that helps the flyers now unless they are cashing in the season

If I was Ed I'd seriously consider dealing Taylor Hall. That sounds like blaspheme, but he could bring back a top 6 center + a top 4 D man if they find the right partner. I think they're overestimating what Eberle will bring back and Yak's value is just nonexistent. They gotta do something, or they will waist their core's youth.

If I was Ed I'd seriously consider dealing Taylor Hall. That sounds like blaspheme, but he could bring back a top 6 center + a top 4 D man if they find the right partner. I think they're overestimating what Eberle will bring back and Yak's value is just nonexistent. They gotta do something, or they will waist their core's youth.
- Victoro311

You mean how they held on the hemsky for a 1st and got the same thing we traded away for goc.... ya I'm guessing their asking price is too high on everyone and in 3 yrs they will finally trade those guys for a 3rd and 5th rdr

6 NHL games and Dumoulin is proven?

And you're attacking the strawman, too. All I said regarding the Blues was that they have their own D prospects, just like most teams. Never started comparing their prospects to ours.
- hardnosed

He has proven he is above the AHL level and ready for the NHL, which is something their prospects have not proven to the extent that it is readily found information.

And I'm attacking no one, simply debating. That is what this site is for. Challenging opinions is not an attack, don't take it like one.

He has proven he is above the AHL level and ready for the NHL, which is something their prospects have not proven to the extent that it is readily found information.

And I'm attacking no one, simply debating. That is what this site is for. Challenging opinions is not an attack, don't take it like one.
- usethe1-2-2

The Blues have 5 defensemen under the age of 28 on their roster, plus high draft picks in the pipeline. Point remains that St. Louis likely isn't in the market for D prospects. Don't know what else to say - guess you could go to the STL blog and ask them if they'd like some prospects.

And "attacking a straw man" is a rhetorical phrase, meaning that you're debating a point I never made. Wasn't accusing you of attacking at all.

Know nothing of him, but he has good size. I think it's too conservative for the Pens needs, he might not pan out and they wasted a piece.

If Harrington and Pouliott are as good as everyone here says they are, I would go bigger. Pens have 58 locked up for a long time, most likely will resign Ehroff, 3 cheap for a few more years, Despress is playing pretty well, that gives a spot to either Harrington or Pouliott. I would consider moving 1 for a more established younger F that has proven that he can contribute right now. Not a safe play for someone that might help. Kunitz will be dead weight by the end of the season.
- sammy87

On a pace for 33 g and 70 PTs ... That's dead weight??? Lololol I'm sure you ll continue to point that out every game he does not score!! And give Crosby all the credit when he does ... JOKE!!!