I don't know what Lucic thought he was doing. It was like he wanted to engage that kid, the kid complied, and Lucic changed his mind at a time in an altercation where you can't simply change your mind.
- johndewar

They were battling around the net, and then Lucic throws two hands up around his head, and the he turns around to face Lucic, and drops the gloves. Lucic engages, what did he think was happening? They were going to hug it out and say sorry?

It's not a knock on Simmonds. He's been fantastic for the Flyers.
- Jsaquella

Oh, absolutely! Just cause Voracek is better doesn't mean I don't love Simmonds!
Hell, Tim Kerr was a better RW than Rick Tocchet, but that doesn't mean I didn't love watching Tocchet play for us

Yup, yup, yup, and yup.

I'm currently making a SOAP note on BPH. All of these are more exciting than this SOAP note.
- Giroux_Is_God

You're living large my friend!

altho interesting tid bits in the article about Forsberg and Pronger

and yes I thought the same thing about Simmonds before Voracek. and these reporters wonder why most fans roll their eyes at them
- nastyflyergirl

You should; reporters are just human beings, with biases and limitations just like everyone else

No one knows everything about this stuff, and one thing I know is this: Nothing is more fearsome than a reporter who gets angry when they're proven wrong

People blame the teams issues on Giroux. It's like they think if Toews traded places with Giroux, the Flyers would be a cup contender and the Blackhawks would fall apart
- PhillySportsGuy

You can't account for, nor fix, stupid

Taveras and Benn aren't better then he is. And Giroux is as good as Kane, Ovechkin, Getzlaff, and Seguin is. Popularity contest.
- MJL

Better than Kane and Ovechkin, IMO

I'll take him over Umberger
- BiggE

That's one list you'd be compiling for days

You're living large my friend!
- BiggE

No, this guys' prostate is living large, to the tune of 50 grams

Can you say Jalyn!?

I think it is easy to say that both are better defensively when they also have better defenses and some great checking wingers on their team. On the flip side, the points are not on Giroux's level despite playing on great teams.
- aflyerpower8

It's not easy to say that they are better defensively, it's just that they are. Both Toews and Kopitar are regulars at the top in Selke trophy voting. Toews has even won it. Kopitar doesn't play on a great offensive team, and still puts up 70+ points. If I was drafting and had the #1 pick, I'd rank them Toews, Kopitar, Giroux.

That's one list you'd be compiling for days
- AllInForFlyers

Cheeseburger >> Hamburger Helper >>> Dumpsburg >>>> Umberger

Cheeseburger >> Hamburger Helper >>> Dumpsburg >>>> Umberger
- johndewar

Goodburger >>>>

Have to look at all that objectively. I think a player like Kopitar sacrifices points to play the style that LA plays. And Giroux's offensive output isn't that much greater to offset how good Toews and Kopitar are all around. I think playing on better teams is a part of it. But in my opinion, Kopitar and Toews are better players. Giroux is average at best defensively. Kopitar and Toews are not only very good offensively, they're among the best defensively.
- MJL

Right but Giroux is among the best offensively, he doesn't have the same personnel and support but still an all situations guy.

LA will still be fine without Kopitar because they still have among the best in defensive centers with Richards and Stoll. Plus Carter's offensive production seems to stay the course.

As for Toews during 2013 Stanley Cup Final, he was a struggling player. So much so you'd see him have a fit but his teammates were able to pick up the slack, especially Kane who always rises to the occasion.

Now, I don't want to take away from Toews and Kopitar and maybe I am but I don't think Kopitar was recognized as a top two way play, nor LA a front runner for the Cup until after the Carter and Richards trades. Then finally all eyes were on him when he was the one to lead the charge. I'd also like to see how Toews looks on an average team without the benefit of Marian Hossa (And other solid two way player) and Patrick Kane.

Right but Giroux is among the best offensively, he doesn't have the same personnel and support but still an all situations guy.

LA will still be fine without Kopitar because they still have among the best in defensive centers with Richards and Stoll. Plus Carter's offensive production seems to stay the course.

As for Toews during 2013 Stanley Cup Final, he was a struggling player. So much so you'd see him have a fit but his teammates were able to pick up the slack, especially Kane who always rises to the occasion.

Now, I don't want to take away from Toews and Kopitar and maybe I am but I don't think Kopitar was recognized as a top two way play, nor LA a front runner for the Cup until after the Carter and Richards trades. Then finally all eyes were on him when he was the one to lead the charge. I'd also like to see how Toews looks on an average team without the benefit of Marian Hossa (And other solid two way player) and Patrick Kane.
- SuperSchennBros

LA is not a Cup team without Kopitar. Neither is Chicago without Toews. I think both Kopitar and Toews are better all around players then Giroux is.

It's not a knock on Simmonds. He's been fantastic for the Flyers.
- Jsaquella

At goodnight Irene's

LA is not a Cup team without Kopitar. Neither is Chicago without Toews. I think both Kopitar and Toews are better all around players then Giroux is.
- MJL

Fair enough. I just feel Giroux being an all situations player and finishing third in points the last two of three seasons is remarkable, especially without as talented the weapons.

Without Toews' personnel, I think Toews would be as good as Rod Brind'Amour in his prime on an average team.

1. Crosby
2. Stamkos
3. Toews
4. Tavares
5. Getzlaf
6. Kane
7. Perry
8. Kopitar
9. Ovechkin
10. Malkin
11. Seguin
12. Benn
13. Bergeron
14. Giroux
15. Kessel
16. Parise
17. MacKinnon
18. Backstrom
19. Datsyuk
20. Pacioretty
- TheGreat28

Giroux being behind Benn and Ovechkin is a joke. Mackinnon's ranking is a joke. I'm high on the player and think hes going to be a great one but right now?? Toews shouldn't be that high

That's one list you'd be compiling for days
- AllInForFlyers

The possibilities are endless....

I think the level of offensive talent that Giroux has over Toews and Kopitar is significant. Toews, Kopitar, and Bergeron are all great players who work well on a team with depth, but none could shoulder the offense like Giroux can.
- aflyerpower8

I think this is fair to say.

It's not easy to say that they are better defensively, it's just that they are. Both Toews and Kopitar are regulars at the top in Selke trophy voting. Toews has even won it. Kopitar doesn't play on a great offensive team, and still puts up 70+ points. If I was drafting and had the #1 pick, I'd rank them Toews, Kopitar, Giroux.
- MJL

The same defensive system that keeps LA from being a "great offensive" team despite having a better top six than the Flyers, is also helping Kopitar's defensive game. Add to that the better defensive help, and a goalie that can erase mistakes. I doubt Kopitar would be considered as good defensively on the Flyers.

They are better all around, but they are better all around than Crosby. I'd still pick Crosby and Giroux before them.

The same defensive system that keeps LA from being a "great offensive" team despite having a better top six than the Flyers, is also helping Kopitar's defensive game. Add to that the better defensive help, and a goalie that can erase mistakes. I doubt Kopitar would be considered as good defensively on the Flyers.

They are better all around, but they are better all around than Crosby. I'd still pick Crosby and Giroux before them.
- aflyerpower8

Kopitar is rated where he is defensively, simply because of how good he is defensively. How good is Couturier considered defensively on the Flyers?

I put Malkin behind Giroux at this point also. He's a -3, has 26 PIM. I realize he doesn't have the best wingers but he is lacking the all around game many players have.

Im a huge Voracek fan but the facts are that prior to this season Simmonds has performed at a higher level then he has so I guess it depends on when that list was created.

This season it is not even close but clearly you could make a case the other way prior to this year.
- opeth_pa

prior to this season

Simmonds - 449 games - 111 goals 123 assists - 234 points
Voracek - 449 games - 102 goals 189 assists - 291 points

Really think tonight is a must win. Gotta stop this slide right now IMO or were starting to get buried. I expect mase to be solid tonight and we win.

Kopitar is rated where he is defensively, simply because of how good he is defensively. How good is Couturier considered defensively on the Flyers?
- MJL

You're right. No player has ever had the perception of their ability boosted/lowered because of the team that they are on. That's why Cheechoo is still a hot commodity.

You're right. No player has ever had the perception of their ability boosted/lowered because of the team that they are on. That's why Cheechoo is still a hot commodity.
- aflyerpower8

Cheechoo is no longer a hot commodity because he lost the ability to score goals. How is that comparable to looking at Kopitar and Toews. Are they no longer top defensive forwards in the League?