I'm calling a Zack Sill goal tonight... I feel it...
- rival22

Shot from the point that hits him and goes in...........

For a cap ceiling contending team, I never understood the idea that you needed to get something for a pending UFA. If you are going to miss the playoffs, then by all means, do what you can to get something.

But if the pending UFA is a good player, let him play out the year and have him help you win. I said it before, I was happy that the Pens signed Paul Martin for 5 years, and would rather have him play 5 full years than 4 3/4 years and get a couple draft picks or whatever.

Unfortunately, the days of trading away someone's rights after the season seem over. That was always a good way to gets something for a player leaving.
- rival22

Exactly my point. Letting him play out the deal is not "losing him for nothing", it's "getting him for nothing except the cap space & losing him for exactly the same thing, while improving the team in the interim".

With the pens being a cap-ceiling & contending team, the cap space is the only thing we gave up to get him & the exact same thing we get back if/when he walks. If they weren't contending or the cap space was not a factor, then you damn well try to get what you can. But when you're playing well & you gave up nothing but some cap space to get him, and you'll definitely get that back no matter where he goes, you keep him. And if the season ends & you can get anything back for him before July 1st, then it's nothing but gravy.

Take a cash bet on that?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Maybe just the loose change that I have in my pocket lol.

edit: I have 37 cents... if he doesn't score, just sent me a self addressed stamped envelope and I'll send it to you

Exactly my point. Letting him play out the deal is not "losing him for nothing", it's "getting him for nothing except the cap space & losing him for exactly the same thing, while improving the team in the interim".

With the pens being a cap-ceiling & contending team, the cap space is the only thing we gave up to get him & the exact same thing we get back if/when he walks. If they weren't contending or the cap space was not a factor, then you damn well try to get what you can. But when you're playing well & you gave up nothing but some cap space to get him, and you'll definitely get that back no matter where he goes, you keep him. And if the season ends & you can get anything back for him before July 1st, then it's nothing but gravy.
- ScienceJesus

Which is totally fine if you have a completely balanced roster. But we don't, we have other needs. So its either Martin or futures to address those needs. That's the debate to be had here, not that were trading him just to make sure we "dont lose him for nothing"

And for what its worth -- I'm a huge believer of picking up a FA for nothing and then turning him into more assets. For example, if we would have got Jagr back during #jagrwatch, we would have gotten a guy to help is in the short term, if he wasnt needed anymore, he perpetually has good trade value and we could have traded him and got some "free" draft picks/prospects. Or another example, if Ehrhoff didnt have a NMC or signed for 2-3 years, that would be a free asset we could easily trade away for a decent return.

Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice
Beetlejuice!
- ScienceJesus

Killian
Killian
Killian


Its a slow day I had to do it.

More expensive than I remember it, but I guess that was 13 years ago. The funniest thing about that place was if you happened to see any girls dancing by themselves, or just a group of girls. If you blinked somehow some local would appear from nowhere and be right up on them. It was so funny, you would just be like damn where did that dude come from, I don't even think he was in the club when the guy previously dancing stepped away. And any girl, not just the hot ones.
- PensFan1103

Here's a tip.

If you're ever in Mexico and a local is with someone you want, or doing something you want, or if you just want to have a little fun...

Start a fight. Regardless of who starts it or who won if they see a fight between a local and a tourist the cops will take that little fella away in under 2 minutes.

Maybe just the loose change that I have in my pocket lol.

edit: I have 37 cents... if he doesn't score, just sent me a self addressed stamped envelope and I'll send it to you
- rival22

Hahaha if this was 1925 I would accept that bet.

A more interesting bet would be if he gets a shot on goal tonight.

Martin to Dallas for Jaimie Benn. Pouliot and a 1st for E. Kane. Then during the draft we trade sutter, dumoulin, and 2 1sts for the 1st overall pick and get Mcdavid.
- drummer829

Just for you. Assumes a small bump in salary cap ($2.5 Mil), Dupuis retires (which is just my gut feeling) but if he doesn't the cap doesn't work, maybe Ehrhoff has to go, unless we can rid ourselves of Scuderi.

FORWARDS
Jamie Benn ($5.250m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m)
Evander Kane ($5.250m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Beau Bennett ($1.350m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Conner McDavid ($0.925m) / Kasperi Kapanen ($0.925m)
Nick Spaling ($2.200m) / Jayson Megna ($0.925m) / Blake Comeau ($0.850m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($7.250m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
Simon Despres ($0.900m) / Scott Harrington ($0.589m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.850m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($5.250m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.750m)
Matthew Murray ($0.620m)
LTIR
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2015-16)
SALARY CAP: $71,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,453,333; BONUSES: $581,667
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $2,046,667

Which is totally fine if you have a completely balanced roster. But we don't, we have other needs. So its either Martin or futures to address those needs. That's the debate to be had here, not that were trading him just to make sure we "dont lose him for nothing"

And for what its worth -- I'm a huge believer of picking up a FA for nothing and then turning him into more assets. For example, if we would have got Jagr back during #jagrwatch, we would have gotten a guy to help is in the short term, if he wasnt needed anymore, he perpetually has good trade value and we could have traded him and got some "free" draft picks/prospects. Or another example, if Ehrhoff didnt have a NMC or signed for 2-3 years, that would be a free asset we could easily trade away for a decent return.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

That's the Pirates method of thinking. Too much about "future" and never about "now". Martin is known. [insert prospect D-man] is unknown. Martin's value on the team is quantifiable now in both the regular season & playoffs. [insert prospect D-man] is pure conjecture. Martin helps you win now. [insert prospect D-man] might help you win later.

And while Martin might bring in a little more in trade than [insert prospect D-man] would for assets to help now, you're still subtracting a known-quantity from your 23-man roster for an X-level player while the [insert prospect D-man] takes nothing away from your 23-man roster & brings back a maybe slightly less effective player (or maybe more, depending on the needs of the team you're trading him to & how they value said prospect d-man).

Contenders need to get better overall. Doing so by getting slightly worse in 1 area while improving marginally more than they otherwise would if they didn't get any worse in that area is counter to the "overall better" goal.

Just for you. Assumes a small bump in salary cap ($2.5 Mil), Dupuis retires (which is just my gut feeling) but if he doesn't the cap doesn't work, maybe Ehrhoff has to go, unless we can rid ourselves of Scuderi.

FORWARDS
Jamie Benn ($5.250m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m)
Evander Kane ($5.250m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Beau Bennett ($1.350m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Conner McDavid ($0.925m) / Kasperi Kapanen ($0.925m)
Nick Spaling ($2.200m) / Jayson Megna ($0.925m) / Blake Comeau ($0.850m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kris Letang ($7.250m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
Simon Despres ($0.900m) / Scott Harrington ($0.589m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.850m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($5.250m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.750m)
Matthew Murray ($0.620m)
LTIR
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2015-16)
SALARY CAP: $71,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,453,333; BONUSES: $581,667
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $2,046,667
- PensFan1103

I dont think theres enough skill up front. I'd pass.

I dont think theres enough skill up front. I'd pass.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I'm calling a Zack Sill goal tonight... I feel it...
- rival22

the silver lining of Dupuis' absence....more Zach Sill.

the silver lining of Dupuis' absence....more Zach Sill.
- akane13

God help us...

Martin to Dallas for Jaimie Benn. Pouliot and a 1st for E. Kane. Then during the draft we trade sutter, dumoulin, and 2 1sts for the 1st overall pick and get Mcdavid.
- drummer829

Kane deal, MAYBE
Benn deal, not a chance
Draft day deal... You'd be crazy to pass it up, crazy to accept it

I'll miss most of the Pens game, but I will get to see Derrick Pouliot and Scott Harrington play live tonight. Oh... and Jayson Megna... who could forget Jayson Megna?

That's the Pirates method of thinking. Too much about "future" and never about "now". Martin is known.
- ScienceJesus[insert prospect D-man] is unknown. Martin's value on the team is quantifiable now in both the regular season & playoffs. [insert prospect D-man] is pure conjecture. Martin helps you win now. [insert prospect D-man] might help you win later.

And while Martin might bring in a little more in trade than [insert prospect D-man] would for assets to help now, you're still subtracting a known-quantity from your 23-man roster for an X-level player while the [insert prospect D-man] takes nothing away from your 23-man roster & brings back a maybe slightly less effective player (or maybe more, depending on the needs of the team you're trading him to & how they value said prospect d-man).

Contenders need to get better overall. Doing so by getting slightly worse in 1 area while improving marginally more than they otherwise would if they didn't get any worse in that area is counter to the "overall better" goal.

No, its not the Pirates method of thinking. It's just bucking the precedent that Shero has set from the last 8 years that its all about the now and nothing about the future. I'm trying to balance the "now" and the future.

Nick Spaling and Blake Comeau are in our top 6. There is a huge imbalance of depth between the defenseman and forwards. A legitimate top 6 forward would be a huge boost for Sid and/or Geno, hence it would be more than "marginally better". You can't just quantify losing Martin as a huge loss without recognizing a very considerable gain up front as well.

Kane deal, MAYBE
Benn deal, not a chance
Draft day deal... You'd be crazy to pass it up, crazy to accept it
- znagle

I dont think we could trade letang for jamie benn straight up certainly not martin, maybe if we had 2 martins

Bob McKenzie retweeted
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun 8m8 minutes ago

Not sure what's out there but Jason Demers traded to Dallas for Brendan Dillon. I believe Stars also get a pick from Sharks

Bob McKenzie retweeted
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun 8m8 minutes ago

Not sure what's out there but Jason Demers traded to Dallas for Brendan Dillon. I believe Stars also get a pick from Sharks
- YouMeAndDupuis9

So much for trading defense to the Stars

Bob McKenzie retweeted
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun 8m8 minutes ago

Not sure what's out there but Jason Demers traded to Dallas for Brendan Dillon. I believe Stars also get a pick from Sharks
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Scuderi going to Sharks now with a pick for Marleau.

Nick Spaling and Blake Comeau are in our top 6. There is a huge imbalance of depth between the defenseman and forwards. A legitimate top 6 forward would be a huge boost for Sid and/or Geno, hence it would be more than "marginally better". You can't just quantify losing Martin as a huge loss without recognizing a very considerable gain up front as well.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I agree that we could use another top 6 winger, but right now this team leads the league in goals scored (per game), so it's not like that huge imbalance is hurting a lot. On a sidenote, the Pens are 4th in goals allowed, the best they've been in a long time.

I dont think we could trade letang for jamie benn straight up certainly not martin, maybe if we had 2 martins
- JLT168

That's what I'm saying, benn is a franchise player and letang is just a step down from that

I'm calling a Zack Sill goal tonight... I feel it...
- rival22

It could be gas.

That's what I'm saying, benn is a franchise player and letang is just a step down from that
- znagle

Why would you trade Letang? Relatively young, locked up for 7 yrs and a decent rate, best dman on the team. Then what resign both Martin and Ehroff?

87 and 71 turn guys like Dupes and Kunitz into pretty solid top 6 forwards. You dont need Kane, Benn, B. Ryan on this team.

Why would you trade Letang? Relatively young, locked up for 7 yrs and a decent rate, best dman on the team. Then what resign both Martin and Ehroff?

87 and 71 turn guys like Dupes and Kunitz into pretty solid top 6 forwards. You dont need Kane, Benn, B. Ryan on this team.
- sammy87

I would never trade letang, he's my favorite player and he is unreal this year. Funny what a decent system does for great players

I was answering the original guys post about benn,mcdavid and kane then I was answering another about letand wouldn't even get benn let alone martin