The biggest dissapointment so far this season is Paul Maclean

Coling Greening and Legwand with Ryan?
How/What/Where/Why?

How on earth can you not look back at the production of Mac-Turris-Ryan from last season?

If fans are beggining to lose their patience/confidence with the coach its only a matter of time before the players do as well.
- SENS 613

Wow, Senators fans woke up this morning with a hate on for the coach - Coach is doing a good job, not sure why they are hating him this morning? If Greening scores tonight or plays a solid game everyone will look pretty stupid

Wow, Senators fans woke up this morning with a hate on for the coach - Coach is doing a good job, not sure why they are hating him this morning? If Greening scores tonight or plays a solid game everyone will look pretty stupid
- tuna99

That's a flawed argument Tuna.

The fact remains that (on paper, and many other things) it doesn't translate to the best move for success.

If the team dressed Neil Greening and scratched the kid line, but Neil scored, it wouldn't necessarily make it the right move.

That's a flawed argument Tuna.

The fact remains that (on paper, and many other things) it doesn't translate to the best move for success.

If the team dressed Neil Greening and scratched the kid line, but Neil scored, it wouldn't necessarily make it the right move.
- david22

Maclean is coaching this team with the patience of a saint - he's been super patient with underperforming players like Zibby, Ryan and 9mm, he's bringing along the rookies and giving them ice, he has a new Captain who's been playing stand around in his own zone, some of his Dman showed up without remembering how to play the position and he's brought them back, and he has his team in the playoffs with his #2 Dman out all season.

I'd say right now he gets Coach of the Year consideration.

And how about putting some blame on Ryan - the guy couldn't find chemistry with players in Anaheim and he can't find chemistry with players in Ottawa. Do you really think maclean is trying to screw Ryan around by playing him on the 2nd line?

How about Ryan takes charge of a line and start playing like a top line player instead of a 2nd or 2rd liner and then maybe he'd be on the top line. How about that for an argument?

Maclean is coaching this team with the patience of a saint - he's been super patient with underperforming players like Zibby, Ryan and 9mm, he's bringing along the rookies and giving them ice, he has a new Captain who's been playing stand around in his own zone, some of his Dman showed up without remembering how to play the position and he's brought them back, and he has his team in the playoffs with his #2 Dman out all season.

I'd say right now he gets Coach of the Year consideration.

And how about putting some blame on Ryan - the guy couldn't find chemistry with players in Anaheim and he can't find chemistry with players in Ottawa. Do you really think maclean is trying to screw Ryan around by playing him on the 2nd line?

How about Ryan takes charge of a line and start playing like a top line player instead of a 2nd or 2rd liner and then maybe he'd be on the top line. How about that for an argument?
- tuna99

there's a VERY CONVINCING argument to be made that the reason they're underperforming (or atleast a very big part of it) is that maclean isn't putting them in the right spots to be able to succeed.

Maclean IN NO WAY gets coach of the year votes now.........if his goalies weren't towing a <.935 sv%, this team would be battling with the buffalo's and edmonton's of the league for a top 3 pick.

IMO, the team is winning inspite of some poor roster management by the coach.

Maclean is coaching this team with the patience of a saint - he's been super patient with underperforming players like Zibby, Ryan and 9mm, he's bringing along the rookies and giving them ice, he has a new Captain who's been playing stand around in his own zone, some of his Dman showed up without remembering how to play the position and he's brought them back, and he has his team in the playoffs with his #2 Dman out all season.

I'd say right now he gets Coach of the Year consideration.

And how about putting some blame on Ryan - the guy couldn't find chemistry with players in Anaheim and he can't find chemistry with players in Ottawa. Do you really think maclean is trying to screw Ryan around by playing him on the 2nd line?

How about Ryan takes charge of a line and start playing like a top line player instead of a 2nd or 3rd liner and then maybe he'd be on the top line. How about that for an argument?
- tuna99

how is he supposed to play like a top line player when he has 2nd or 3rd line quality linemates.

when he was playing on the top line, he was playing like a top line player. He had a poopload of chemistry with turris and macarthur, they were one of the better lines in the eastern conference last year, and looked great the few games they played together this year.

Maclean is coaching this team with the patience of a saint - he's been super patient with underperforming players like Zibby, Ryan and 9mm, he's bringing along the rookies and giving them ice, he has a new Captain who's been playing stand around in his own zone, some of his Dman showed up without remembering how to play the position and he's brought them back, and he has his team in the playoffs with his #2 Dman out all season.

I'd say right now he gets Coach of the Year consideration.

And how about putting some blame on Ryan - the guy couldn't find chemistry with players in Anaheim and he can't find chemistry with players in Ottawa. Do you really think maclean is trying to screw Ryan around by playing him on the 2nd line?

How about Ryan takes charge of a line and start playing like a top line player instead of a 2nd or 2rd liner and then maybe he'd be on the top line. How about that for an argument?
- tuna99

I actually agree that Ryan should be putting up some more points. But this is a little off topic from what we were discussing above.

how is he supposed to play like a top line player when he has 2nd or 3rd line quality linemates.

when he was playing on the top line, he was playing like a top line player. He had a poopload of chemistry with turris and macarthur, they were one of the better lines in the eastern conference last year, and looked great the few games they played together this year.
- sensarmy_11

I'd like to see them together as well, they seem wary of putting all their eggs in one basket.

Either way, I think he should be putting some more points on the board. He's being payed like a player who would.

I'd like to see them together as well, they seem wary of putting all their eggs in one basket.

Either way, I think he should be putting some more points on the board. He's being payed like a player who would.
- david22

if he was on the top line, and not producing, then you have a beef.

he's playing mostly with zibby and chiasson, 2 guys who are also sturggling, and who he has zero chemsitry with. the coach should realize that, and make changes................which he has, and that's to put ryan with two worse players.

you can't pay ryan like a 1st liner, play him with 2nd and 3rd liners, and then complain that he isn't producing like a 1st liner.

I actually agree that Ryan should be putting up some more points. But this is a little off topic from what we were discussing above.
- david22

I put the blame on the players - people have these expectations that Ryan is an 80 point player - in his last season on a stacked Anaheim team he had 57 points in 82 games. Last season he had 48 in 70 games - this is the player he's been for the last 3 years - how are we to blame Maclean for that?

I think Ryan has another level to get to but he's a #2 overall pick and how about he takes charge instead of us making excuses for him.

Isn't it obvious? they are show casing him for a trade. Game 20 mark, GM meetings just happened, Ottawa's put out they only want a late round pick for him.
Greening isn't a horrible hockey player - he was good in the two games he played. Is he overpaid this season, yes, but so are a lot of players in the league.
- tuna99

So, after being cast on the least productive line on the team for much of the year, Ryan's role has now been further reduced to being a platform for showcasing benched players that the team is hoping to rid themselves of?

Hopefully this is just some kind of short-term issue, because if they're really not prepared to put Ryan in a position to score 30G+ and be a top line offensive player, then they've just made a very expensive long-term error in judgement.

So, after being cast on the least productive line on the team for much of the year, Ryan's role has now been further reduced to being a platform for showcasing benched players that the team is hoping to rid themselves of?

Hopefully this is just some kind of short-term issue, because if they're really not prepared to put Ryan in a position to score 30G+ and be a top line offensive player, then they've just made a very expensive long-term error in judgement.
- khawk

watch the games - Ryan isn't up to speed yet. He's getting warmed up but Ryan just doesn't skate out onto the ice and it happens easily - he's not Mike Hoffman!!!!!!!

Yes Greening is playing with Ryan - Greening played with Spezza for a full season and 9MM and Spezza made the All Star game - Greening is good player, let him show that.

Just because he's our 13th forward doesn't mean he's bad player, we have great depth and he's a victim of that

ryan and zibby have consistently shown that they have ZERO chemistry together, while stone and hoffman have shown that they have a TON of it.

swap ryan and stone, and that would be the best possible top six this team could ice.
- sensarmy_11

I just hate to see them connect and that leaves Lazar playing with neil n smith brutal or be sent down to make roster complete when meth returns ... So I personally rather see them all split up ..... But I agree switching them 2 would be better

I put the blame on the players - people have these expectations that Ryan is an 80 point player - in his last season on a stacked Anaheim team he had 57 points in 82 games. Last season he had 48 in 70 games - this is the player he's been for the last 3 years - how are we to blame Maclean for that?

I think Ryan has another level to get to but he's a #2 overall pick and how about he takes charge instead of us making excuses for him.
- tuna99

No one is making excuses for the guy, he's only about 6% off of his normal PPG, and he historically does start slow, so I do expect it to level off.

I'm just saying that if he had played 16 games this year on the same line as Turris and MacArthur, and he had played 16 games this year on PP1, then I don't think it's a stretch to assume that he'd have at least 15 points this year instead of the 10 he does have.

And then all of a sudden, he might just be an 80 point player.

So yeah, I do blame MacLean, to some degree, for the fact that Ryan isn't an 80 point player at this point. Erik Karlsson and Clarke MacArthur and Kyle Turris are better finishers and setup men than Mika Zibanejad and Milan Michalek and Colin f***ing Greening and Chris Phillips and all the other guys that Ryan has had extended time playing with this year.

Putting players in the right position to succeed is super important. That's a failing on the coaching staff.

Here's the blowback, in my opinion.

Let's say that, over the 16 games Ryan has played in, that he took his shifts exclusively with Turris and MacArthur, and he was on PP1 100% of the time. Let's say that, in those 16 games, Ryan would have got an extra 5 points. I really think that number isn't a stretch if you consider what the increased ice time and quality of linemates would have done.

Now look at the number of 1 goal games the Senators have lost.

Maybe those extra 5 points translates to two extra wins? Or maybe even just a couple of OT losses instead of regulation losses? How much better would Ottawa look with a record of 10-5-2, or 10-3-5, or even 9-3-6? Those 2-4 points in the standings NOW might be the difference between being a playoff team and not being a playoff team.

I know I'm speaking in hypothetical terms here, but Ryan having 15 points instead of 10 right now is largely because he has had to play with guys that aren't complimenting his strengths as a hockey player, and that's on the coach. I actually don't mind him taking a shift with Legwand, but Greening is a mess and shouldn't be on the same line as two legitimate NHL players.

watch the games - Ryan isn't up to speed yet. He's getting warmed up but Ryan just doesn't skate out onto the ice and it happens easily - he's not Mike Hoffman!!!!!!!

Yes Greening is playing with Ryan - Greening played with Spezza for a full season and 9MM and Spezza made the All Star game - Greening is good player, let him show that.

Just because he's our 13th forward doesn't mean he's bad player, we have great depth and he's a victim of that
- tuna99

Mike Hoffman, with all due respect to Mike Hoffman, is being outscored by Bobby Ryan right now. Ryan is not as good of a skater as Mike Hoffman, this is true. Mike Hoffman is absolutely a NHL player, but Bobby Ryan is a better one.

In that year you're referring to, when Spezza and Michalek played a full season with Greening, and Spezza-Michalek went to the ASG:

Spezza: 80GP, 34G, 50A, +11
Michalek: 77GP, 35G, 25A, +4
Greening: 82GP, 17G, 20A, -4

Jason Spezza and Milan Michalek, in the best years of their careers, couldn't make Colin Greening into a 0.50PPG player, couldn't get him 20 goals, couldn't even keep him as a + player. They dragged him around like dead weight for a full season. Greening is an acceptable 4th liner, if he starts learning to grind. Otherwise, he's an overrated non-finisher who plays like he's tiny. He'll be out of the NHL by this time next year, if Ottawa finds someone to take him.

if he was on the top line, and not producing, then you have a beef.

he's playing mostly with zibby and chiasson, 2 guys who are also sturggling, and who he has zero chemsitry with. the coach should realize that, and make changes................which he has, and that's to put ryan with two worse players.

you can't pay ryan like a 1st liner, play him with 2nd and 3rd liners, and then complain that he isn't producing like a 1st liner.
- sensarmy_11[/quote]

Have we forgotten about the Quality of Competition factors coaches take into consideration here already? Yost has only been gone for 2 months...

This is a strategy to capitalize on what Maclean sees as a weak bottom six group in Nashville. Let Ryan have a field day with a decent center who knows this Preds team very, very well on his line playing against much weaker competition than he normally does. Plus this way, our best shooter will avoid Weber, Josi, Jones and Ellis as much as possible, letting him prey on weaker D like Volchenkov while Turris and Mac eat up the tough minutes against the Forsberg line.

It's not a bad strategy, and if I was Ryan I would see it as an opportunity to get some points on the board and build for better performances in future games.

Ryan's gonna score tonight, maybe two. I'm pretty confident.

Mike Hoffman, with all due respect to Mike Hoffman, is being outscored by Bobby Ryan right now. Ryan is not as good of a skater as Mike Hoffman, this is true. Mike Hoffman is absolutely a NHL player, but Bobby Ryan is a better one.

In that year you're referring to, when Spezza and Michalek played a full season with Greening, and Spezza-Michalek went to the ASG:

Spezza: 80GP, 34G, 50A, +11
Michalek: 77GP, 35G, 25A, +4
Greening: 82GP, 17G, 20A, -4

Jason Spezza and Milan Michalek, in the best years of their careers, couldn't make Colin Greening into a 0.50PPG player, couldn't get him 20 goals, couldn't even keep him as a + player. They dragged him around like dead weight for a full season. Greening is an acceptable 4th liner, if he starts learning to grind. Otherwise, he's an overrated non-finisher who plays like he's tiny. He'll be out of the NHL by this time next year, if Ottawa finds someone to take him.
- the_terror

wow people are taking Greening playing quiet seriously - considering Maclean juggles his lines all the time why is everyone getting worked up about Practice.

let's see how they play tonight, 2 points is all I care about

So yeah, I do blame MacLean, to some degree, for the fact that Ryan isn't an 80 point player at this point. Erik Karlsson and Clarke MacArthur and Kyle Turris are better finishers and setup men than Mika Zibanejad and Milan Michalek and Colin f***ing Greening and Chris Phillips and all the other guys that Ryan has had extended time playing with this year.

Putting players in the right position to succeed is super important. That's a failing on the coaching staff. ........

.......I know I'm speaking in hypothetical terms here, but Ryan having 15 points instead of 10 right now is largely because he has had to play with guys that aren't complimenting his strengths as a hockey player, and that's on the coach. I actually don't mind him taking a shift with Legwand, but Greening is a mess and shouldn't be on the same line as two legitimate NHL players.
- the_terror

wish there was a clapping emoticon.

well said

Wow, Senators fans woke up this morning with a hate on for the coach - Coach is doing a good job, not sure why they are hating him this morning? If Greening scores tonight or plays a solid game everyone will look pretty stupid
- tuna99

Woke up this morning? This has been raised by numerous people even last season.

He gives icetime to the worst players playing that night and isn't playing our best winger on the top line.

Its inexcusable really

if ottawa trades lazar for a pending UFA, i'll jump off a (frank)ing bridge.
- sensarmy_11

IF Ottawa were to trade for Yandle (I was only kidding about Lazar), the chances of him not signing here would be about the same as Ryan not signing here.....

it's ridiculous..........i would 100% support canning maclean if ottawa misses the playoffs this year. as great as he was the first 2 years, he seems to be equally inept last year and this year.
- sensarmy_11

i wanted him canned for awhile now... but when he put legwand, michalek, and greening(!!!!!!!) in the shootout before our top scorers, that was it for me

any bets on how hoff, zib, and stone are gonna be together?
im thinkin the are gonna be golden... (hoping)

if we rolled,
griz, kt, ryan
hoff, zib, stoner
lazar, leg, chiassan
mm9, smith, neil (ugh, but lets be honest, neil is gonna play)

i think we'd be in good shape. could flip lazar and mm9, and have lazar center smith and neil if prefer to keep 27 at center.
if zib and lazar continue to progress, then we could consider flipping legwand for something at the dealine, and move lazar back to center. if we managed to offload greening and smith, we could then have pageau center 4 line.

Buy low !!

To Buffalo: F Shane Prince, F Eric Condra, conditional picks
To Ottawa: F Chris Stewart

To Edmonton: F Zack Smith, F Colin Greening, D Patrick Weircioch
To Ottawa: F David Perron

MacArthur - Turris - Chiasson
Perron - Zibanejad - Ryan
Michalek - Legwand - Stewart
Hoffman - Lazar - Stone

Buy low !!

To Buffalo: F Shane Prince, F Eric Condra, conditional picks
To Ottawa: F Chris Stewart

To Edmonton: F Zack Smith, F Colin Greening, D Patrick Weircioch
To Ottawa: F David Perron

MacArthur - Turris - Chiasson
Perron - Zibanejad - Ryan
Michalek - Legwand - Stewart
Hoffman - Lazar - Stone
- AlfieisKing

Got me a little aroused on the bus on my way home from school

So, hey, Ottawa. They are doing better than the Oilers and tickets are affordable here. I think I may have found my #2 team to cheer for.
- ChetManly

AND ALWAYS PLENTY AVAILABLE

AND ALWAYS PLENTY AVAILABLE
- JACMAN

ottawa's attendance is actually really good this year. almost no ticket "giveaways", STH numbers are up, and the rink is near capacity almost every night....i think the numbers have them averaging about 96-97% of capacity, about 18.5K ish per game.

that's not bad