I think Hextall thought he was getting a serviceable player, and shedding Hartnell's contract. Based on Umberger's pathetic play thus far, not sure Hextall would pull the trigger on this deal now. I really hope Berube had zero to do with Hextall trading Hartnell. Berube should have an expiration date tattooed on his forehead. His shelf life should be akin to a loaf of bread.
- PLindbergh31

The 2 ways are suck and totally sucks
- BiggE

Penalties and all, it's not like we were a bad team last season. We ended up with a bad match up in the playoffs and our starter got hurt. It would be ideal to not take bad penalties but for the most part, we're a good special teams team.
- SuperSchennBros

For being one of the healthiest teams in the league we weren't great. Now we're seeing the result of a typical scratch list.

I knew they wouldn't be a contender. I just don't see the plan moving forward. This entire roster is signed through next season. After next season, many of the actual contributors on this team become FAs.

I guess I was just hoping the turn around would be quicker because these are Giroux, Simmonds and Jake's prime years.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think the plan is to build the pipeline, keep our core, let the young players finish developing, and see what shakes out. I think Hextall's looking at three years from now as his target.

The Flyers PK is 29th out of 30 teams.
- PLindbergh31

Right now but over the years, when healthy, we've been very good.

The Flyers PK is 29th out of 30 teams.
- PLindbergh31

I thought Umberger was going to help our PK!

I knew they wouldn't be a contender. I just don't see the plan moving forward. This entire roster is signed through next season. After next season, many of the actual contributors on this team become FAs.

I guess I was just hoping the turn around would be quicker because these are Giroux, Simmonds and Jake's prime years.
- PhillySportsGuy

exactly. i know you can wait 4 years and giroux will still only be 31 or so, but still. windows for these prime players have such a way of closing.

Well, it's not like we're lacking for quality left wingers. Oh, wait...
- BulliesPhan87

And it's the second time in two summers that we bailed out on a natural left winger and just threw anyone on that side as if it's as natural as breathing.

I think the plan is to build the pipeline, keep our core, let the young players finish developing, and see what shakes out. I think Hextall's looking at three years from now as his target.
- BulliesPhan87

I just think theres a lot of work to do here in terms of moving money. It's just frustrating because I feel Giroux is wasting away on an inferior roster and will for the foreseeable future.

The Flyers really need a David Robinson type scenario where the best player goes down for the year, they win the lottery and get a Tim Duncan and, BAM! They're in it.

Kind of sad the trickle down effect of an injury to michael freaking raffl has on the team

exactly. i know you can wait 4 years and giroux will still only be 31 or so, but still. windows for these prime players have such a way of closing.
- stayinthefnnet

Plus, Giroux and Jake will keep this team breathing for those years too. They'll never be a contender, but they'll never bottom out for top picks. They'll constantly be in the middle.

Make fun of the Sixers all you want, but after this season, they will have a ton of young talent along with an ample amount of cap space.

Plus, Giroux and Jake will keep this team breathing for those years too. They'll never be a contender, but they'll never bottom out for top picks. They'll constantly be in the middle.

Make fun of the Sixers all you want, but after this season, they will have a ton of young talent along with an ample amount of cap space.
- PhillySportsGuy

i dont make fun of the sixers any more than i do the nba in general

theyre doing that really the only way you can in the nba. need one or two stars and the ability to attract others.

in hockey, i dont think you need to bottom out to win it. sure, it helps restart a total reboot if you have nothing. but you do need a healthy dose of talent, the right mix, and a lot of luck.

Kind of sad the trickle down effect of an injury to michael freaking raffl has on the team
- Just5

It really is brutal -- they need that guy back, pronto. Because the left side is effed without him, in its own way, just short of what missing Giroux for an extended stretch would mean, because at least they have centers

wayne fish ‏@waynefish1 20m20 minutes ago
According to ESPN's Pierre LeBrun, new rules regarding injured players could allow Chris Pronger into Hockey Hall of Fame in 2015.

Honestly, at this point I think the team looks stupid for the whole "message" this trade was supposed to send. Between the comments made about the trade, and the stupid sign in the locker room ("we don't care who you are", yeah ok buddy), they pretty much externalized all the conditioning and effort issues on one guy. Well, fast forward to now and we're no more removed from the incomplete efforts.

I know it's still early to judge the "culture change", but to me it looks like the brass gave a good soldier who's still playing well a bum rap.
- BulliesPhan87

I agree in some ways. One of the problems with the Flyers "culture" is that they are inconsistent, slow to start in games, and have questionable efforts in some games. I always felt that Hartnell gave his all, in every game. And put his heart and soul into the team. Even if that manifested on the ice in a negative way.
But I also thought that in a lot of ways, Hartnell just doesn't play the game the right way. As far as being a smart player. And definitely not in terms of discipline on the ice. As a member of the leadership group, I don't think he was in position to lead by example to fix those areas of the Flyers play, that needed to be changed. I think in that way, they needed that negative element of what Hartnell brought to the team, removed. I don't think they thought for a second that Umberger was a better player they Hartnell. But I also think they expected more out of Umberger then they've gotten so far.

wayne fish ‏@waynefish1 20m20 minutes ago
According to ESPN's Pierre LeBrun, new rules regarding injured players could allow Chris Pronger into Hockey Hall of Fame in 2015.
- PhillySportsGuy

Cap insanity relief as well since he works for the stinking league too ??

Cap insanity relief as well since he works for the stinking league too ??
- Steelmanpa

I dont think it will have any impact on the Flyers salary cap

I loathe that stupid (frank)ing sign.

I believe the management miscalculated what was wrong with this team. They thought taking fewer penalties and being in better shape was going to improve the team. Clearly, that hasn't been the case. I would argue they're worse than last season, but have been saved by the play of Jake and Giroux. If either of those guys drops off, they will be a poopty team.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think this is looking at it in the wrong way. Unless you believe that taking less penalties, and getting the team in better shape, is not good for a team. And surely how the Flyers are as a team, is not based on those two factors alone. So how did they miscalculate that they needed to take less penalties, and needed to get in better shape?

The Poulin move was worse than most realized.
- 77rams

Brian Propp for a second round pick was no winner either. Still had two strong playoff runs (Bruins and North Stars) to Finals and a 73-point regular season left in him.

In exchange, the Flyers got the 42nd overall pick in the 1990 draft that they used on Terran Sandwith, who played eight NHL games (none with the Flyers).

I agree in some ways. One of the problems with the Flyers "culture" is that they are inconsistent, slow to start in games, and have questionable efforts in some games. I always felt that Hartnell gave his all, in every game. And put his heart and soul into the team. Even if that manifested on the ice in a negative way.
But I also thought that in a lot of ways, Hartnell just doesn't play the game the right way. As far as being a smart player. And definitely not in terms of discipline on the ice. As a member of the leadership group, I don't think he was in position to lead by example to fix those areas of the Flyers play, that needed to be changed. I think in that way, they needed that negative element of what Hartnell brought to the team, removed. I don't think they thought for a second that Umberger was a better player they Hartnell. But I also think they expected more out of Umberger then they've gotten so far.
- MJL

cough rinaldo

cough rinaldo
- stayinthefnnet

Rinaldo has been the least of our worries. One of the few players you don't have to worry about effort each night. If more guys with better skill did that this team would be competing better

cough rinaldo
- stayinthefnnet

The difference is that Rinaldo is making less then 1M and is not a player that is looked to for leadership.

Rinaldo has been the least of our worries. One of the few players you don't have to worry about effort each night. If more guys with better skill did that this team would be competing better
- J35Bacher

I agree in some ways. One of the problems with the Flyers "culture" is that they are inconsistent, slow to start in games, and have questionable efforts in some games. I always felt that Hartnell gave his all, in every game. And put his heart and soul into the team. Even if that manifested on the ice in a negative way.
But I also thought that in a lot of ways, Hartnell just doesn't play the game the right way. As far as being a smart player. And definitely not in terms of discipline on the ice. As a member of the leadership group, I don't think he was in position to lead by example to fix those areas of the Flyers play, that needed to be changed. I think in that way, they needed that negative element of what Hartnell brought to the team, removed. I don't think they thought for a second that Umberger was a better player they Hartnell. But I also think they expected more out of Umberger then they've gotten so far.
- MJL

I agree they didn't expect Umberger to be better than Hartnell, but I do think they felt getting Umberger was better than getting nothing at all (which, if we had to dump the contract, I would've preferred at this point). Speaking just to Hartnell's trade value, I think they could've done better, but instead it looks as though they jumped on their first chance to "get rid of the problem".

Hartnell undoubtedly has his warts, but the reasoning (which I think you're probably right about) is mean and weak.

Seriously, though, I hate when people say "two-way player" for a player who can't score. Umberger is a two-way player like Zherdev is a two-way player. That's hyperbole, but you get my point.
- PhillySportsGuy

The problem is, that before this year, Umberger could score. And he was sound defensively, and was a two way player. Unfortunately this year he seems to have lost his way. So he's down a way, and is now a one way player!