Pretty much how I see it. Even with Hartnell, the Flyers aren't that much better right now. It's not like he would be the piece that makes them a Cup contender.
- NickTheKid87

Nope Hartnell doesn't make the Flyers a contender. The problem is the Flyers are dressing an empty uniform every game. Umberger isn't even providing replacement level play at 4.5 million dollars. Flyers would have been a million times better off getting a 6th round pick for Hartnell. Bringing back a high priced cadaver is a tough pill to swallow when the rewards are 3 years away.

Just want the early returns? It's a brutally one sided trade. Hartnell has been one if Columbus' best players & Umberger has sucked. From a strictly hockey sense, after 16 games it's as bad a trade as the team has ever made
- Jsaquella

Honestly, at this point I think the team looks stupid for the whole "message" this trade was supposed to send. Between the comments made about the trade, and the stupid sign in the locker room ("we don't care who you are", yeah ok buddy), they pretty much externalized all the conditioning and effort issues on one guy. Well, fast forward to now and we're no more removed from the incomplete efforts.

I know it's still early to judge the "culture change", but to me it looks like the brass gave a good soldier who's still playing well a bum rap.

Nope Hartnell doesn't make the Flyers a contender. The problem is the Flyers are dressing an empty uniform every game. Umberger isn't even providing replacement level play at 4.5 million dollars. Flyers would have been a million times better off getting a 6th round pick for Hartnell. Bringing back a high priced cadaver is a tough pill to swallow when the rewards are 3 years away.
- PLindbergh31

Don't disagree with this either. To me, it seems Hextall wanted a roster player to fill in for Hartnell and Umberger was that guy. Unfortunately, Umberger has been terrible but at least we're only 16 games in. There is plenty of time for him to become a decent contributor.

IMO, this is a poor short term deal so far with the chance to be ok and an ok long term deal.

Just want the early returns? It's a brutally one sided trade. Hartnell has been one if Columbus' best players & Umberger has sucked. From a strictly hockey sense, after 16 games it's as bad a trade as the team has ever made
- Jsaquella

Yup right up there with Poulin for Linseman and McCrimmon for draft picks

I guess the optics are a bit different from where I'm sitting. Umberger is a paperweight right now, but I didn't give a poop about these next 2-3 seasons anyway, so that I don't mind.

What's most important to me is for them to fully maximize their ability to compete when it's time for Sanheim, Ghost and Laughts to really sink their teeth into this team, 2017+. I want money to keep B Schenn and Voracek, re-sign/replace Mason and Coburn, and enough to plug tomorrow's holes/needs.

But again, that's just me.
- Tomahawk

So by all means give Giroux 8 million per and seeing how Voracek is elite and Mason is magically a top ten goalie, how much will these two someday cost? If all the players are someday unaffordable, it won't be because of two contracts. The future we will never be exactly what you had hoped. There will be more kids drafted year after year. Some kids may not even workout. Heck, Laughton could be playing now or at least could have during Lecavalier's injury but at the end of the day, that decision is up to the organization. Not to mention that these current young players on the current roster won't be young forever. Streit is only signed to four years.

There will always be space to be found.

Is it fair to call Umberger a two-way forward when he spends 90% of his time in the defensive zone?
- PhillySportsGuy

The 2 ways are suck and totally sucks

Honestly, at this point I think the team looks stupid for the whole "message" this trade was supposed to send. Between the comments made about the trade, and the stupid sign in the locker room ("we don't care who you are", yeah ok buddy), they pretty much externalized all the conditioning and effort issues on one guy. Well, fast forward to now and we're no more removed from the incomplete efforts.

I know it's still early to judge the "culture change", but to me it looks like the brass gave a good soldier who's still playing well a bum rap.
- BulliesPhan87

I agree with this post from start to finish.

The good days will come again boys, just have to get through the next few years and let the dead weight/bad contracts be shat out.

Patience.

Nope Hartnell doesn't make the Flyers a contender. The problem is the Flyers are dressing an empty uniform every game. Umberger isn't even providing replacement level play at 4.5 million dollars. Flyers would have been a million times better off getting a 6th round pick for Hartnell. Bringing back a high priced cadaver is a tough pill to swallow when the rewards are 3 years away.
- PLindbergh31

i wonder if this is out there though. yeah hartnell is still pretty decent now, but his contract has a chance to be in the same ballpark as richards.

i think taking umberger back was likely a requirement. unless ive giving hextall far too much credit.

So Giroux has an ankle injury, per Panotch. Curious that Schenn was moved to center, when in the preseason Berube refused to move him to center. Does that mean G is out for more than a couple games?

Honestly, at this point I think the team looks stupid for the whole "message" this trade was supposed to send. Between the comments made about the trade, and the stupid sign in the locker room ("we don't care who you are", yeah ok buddy), they pretty much externalized all the conditioning and effort issues on one guy. Well, fast forward to now and we're no more removed from the incomplete efforts.

I know it's still early to judge the "culture change", but to me it looks like the brass gave a good soldier who's still playing well a bum rap.
- BulliesPhan87

I loathe that stupid (frank)ing sign.

I believe the management miscalculated what was wrong with this team. They thought taking fewer penalties and being in better shape was going to improve the team. Clearly, that hasn't been the case. I would argue they're worse than last season, but have been saved by the play of Jake and Giroux. If either of those guys drops off, they will be a poopty team.

I agree with this post from start to finish.
- SuperSchennBros

I'm glad it's not just me. The broadcast made a big deal out of that sign during one intermission, and immediately I thought, "That reads like a note from a pissy roommate about dirty dishes, literally nobody is affected by this."

So Giroux has an ankle injury, per Panotch. Curious that Schenn was moved to center, when in the preseason Berube refused to move him to center. Does that mean G is out for more than a couple games?
- TheGreat28

Still waiting on word.

The good days will come again boys, just have to get through the next few years and let the dead weight/bad contracts be shat out.

Patience.
- flyer_nutter

It sucks burning Giroux/Voracek prime years.

The 2 ways are suck and totally sucks
- BiggE

Seriously, though, I hate when people say "two-way player" for a player who can't score. Umberger is a two-way player like Zherdev is a two-way player. That's hyperbole, but you get my point.

i wonder if this is out there though. yeah hartnell is still pretty decent now, but his contract has a chance to be in the same ballpark as richards.

i think taking umberger back was likely a requirement. unless ive giving hextall far too much credit.
- stayinthefnnet

The length of Hartnell's deal isn't great. I bet the last year of Hartnell's deal he's way more productive than the garbage Umberger is providing the Flyers with right now. I don't really have a problem with getting rid of Hartnell, the return was just about the worst thing possible. A bad contract, and a nothing player.

I loathe that stupid (frank)ing sign.

I believe the team miscalculated what was wrong with this team. They thought that taking fewer penalties and being in better shape was going to improve the team. Clearly, that hasn't been the case. I would argue they're worse than last season, but have been saved by the play of Jake and Giroux. If either of those guys drops off, they will be a poopty team.
- PhillySportsGuy

Well, they got the PIMs down. For now. I don't think they expected it would make this team into a bona fide contender (Hextall was pretty up front about not being a big "win now" guy), but I do think they were expecting it to stop the trend of waiting for a two goal deficit to start playing hard, and sooner rather than later.

I'm less than convinced this was the best return they could get for Hartnell, even before adding in how disappointingly bad Umberger's been so far.

I'm glad it's not just me. The broadcast made a big deal out of that sign during one intermission, and immediately I thought, "That reads like a note from a pissy roommate about dirty dishes, literally nobody is affected by this."
- BulliesPhan87

Penalties and all, it's not like we were a bad team last season. We ended up with a bad match up in the playoffs and our starter got hurt. It would be ideal to not take bad penalties but for the most part, we're a good special teams team.

Penalties and all, it's not like we were a bad team last season. We ended up with a bad match up in the playoffs and our starter got hurt. It would ideal to not take bad penalties but for the most part, we're a good special teams team.
- SuperSchennBros

Well, it's not like we're lacking for quality left wingers. Oh, wait...

The length of Hartnell's deal isn't great. I bet the last year of Hartnell's deal he's way more productive than the garbage Umberger is providing the Flyers with right now. I don't really have a problem with getting rid of Hartnell, the return was just about the worst thing possible. A bad contract, and a nothing player.
- PLindbergh31

i understand. maybe its just me. but i dont think hexy expected he was getting much. maybe not this much of an anchor, but i dont think he thought he was getting the world back. essentially just removing hartnell, for his term length, as well as what ever reasons you guys are alluding to here.

i ultimately think it was a smart thing to do in the big picture, if the flyers are choosing to wait a year or two to really make their mark. however, any non cap reasons i think are pretty stupid. hartnell, yeah he took a dumb penalty here and there, but intangible wise i think he was very good for the team.

Penalties and all, it's not like we were a bad team last season. We ended up with a bad match up in the playoffs and our starter got hurt. It would be ideal to not take bad penalties but for the most part, we're a good special teams team.
- SuperSchennBros

The Flyers PK is 29th out of 30 teams.

Well, they got the PIMs down. For now. I don't think they expected it would make this team into a bona fide contender (Hextall was pretty up front about not being a big "win now" guy), but I do think they were expecting it to stop the trend of waiting for a two goal deficit to start playing hard, and sooner rather than later.

I'm less than convinced this was the best return they could get for Hartnell, even before adding in how disappointingly bad Umberger's been so far.
- BulliesPhan87

I knew they wouldn't be a contender. I just don't see the plan moving forward. This entire roster is signed through next season. After next season, many of the actual contributors on this team become FAs.

I guess I was just hoping the turn around would be quicker because these are Giroux, Simmonds and Jake's prime years.

So Giroux has an ankle injury, per Panotch. Curious that Schenn was moved to center, when in the preseason Berube refused to move him to center.
- TheGreat28

BSchenn played several games at center in the preseason.

i understand. maybe its just me. but i dont think hexy expected he was getting much. maybe not this much of an anchor, but i dont think he thought he was getting the world back. essentially just removing hartnell, for his term length, as well as what ever reasons you guys are alluding to here.

i ultimately think it was a smart thing to do in the big picture, if the flyers are choosing to wait a year or two to really make their mark. however, any non cap reasons i think are pretty stupid. hartnell, yeah he took a dumb penalty here and there, but intangible wise i think he was very good for the team.
- stayinthefnnet

I think Hextall thought he was getting a serviceable player, and shedding Hartnell's contract. Based on Umberger's pathetic play thus far, not sure Hextall would pull the trigger on this deal now. I really hope Berube had zero to do with Hextall trading Hartnell. Berube should have an expiration date tattooed on his forehead. His shelf life should be akin to a loaf of bread.

Yup right up there with Poulin for Linseman and McCrimmon for draft picks

- BiggE

The Poulin move was worse than most realized.