I think what they need to do with Vinny is get him with a couple guys who have speed & can get him the puck(Bellemare, Akeson, Raffl when he return) and let Vinny just be the shooter. That's pretty much what he is now.

Of course that's what they try to do on the power play & it's not real effective there, either
- Jsaquella

I just can't see him ever being effective at ES at this point

VLC is an aging, broken down shell of what he was in his heyday. He has clearly lost a step and plays no physical game whatsoever.

Umberger is a 4th liner at best at this point in his career

VDV has no business taking a regular shift in the NHL

Rinaldo is a 12/13 guy who should not dress on a consistent basis

Akeson is a quality AHL player but a borderline NHL player

As long as 5 of our 12 starting forwards are the men listed above, we will struggle to win games. When you add that to a D group lacking top pair talent, you get a lottery team. This is not being negative, it's simply being realistic. It doesn't matter that VLC has 400+ career goals or that Umberger was once a good player. All that matters are what they are today.
- BiggE

Before the 5 day break, the Flyers won 3 games in a row, and 6 games out of 8. So they were playing good hockey and winning. They lost the last two games, not because of what you state above, but because they got outworked by Columbus, and they started taking penalties, and the PK has faltered. Same thing last night. Not going to win many game giving up 3 PP goals. Which doesn't have anything to do with what 5 of the starting 12 forwards are. Rinaldo has played well all year. Vandevelde is a capable 4th line player. Umberger even at his current level of play, can play on the 4th line and still help the team. Certainly not ideal at 4.6M. Lecavalier can still make plays with the puck, such as he did in setting up the game winning goal against Colorado.

I think what they need to do with Vinny is get him with a couple guys who have speed & can get him the puck(Bellemare, Akeson, Raffl when he return) and let Vinny just be the shooter. That's pretty much what he is now.

Of course that's what they try to do on the power play & it's not real effective there, either
- Jsaquella

That would be making use of his strengths. The problem is how the pieces fit. This team has two forwards who can carry and distribute the puck. And who are offensive catalysts. And they are both on the same line. The rest of the forward crew is a collection of support offensive players, who need someone to get them the puck, or to get the puck to the net. They need another playmaker to play with players such as Simmonds and Lecavalier. Whatever line combinations Berube has tried, there are going to be holes, and players that aren't going to be as effective without the right mix.

You can win games here and there with inferior players, but in the long run you will lose more than you will win.

I love poking the hornets nest

You can win games here and there with inferior players, but in the long run you will lose more than you will win.

I love poking the hornets nest

- BiggE

it will be an up and down season, this team is what it is

You can win games here and there with inferior players, but in the long run you will lose more than you will win.

I love poking the hornets nest

- BiggE

Winning 3 in a row, and 6 out of 8, isn't winning games here and there.

What they need to do to move on from Lecavalier is for Lecavalier to get better offensively. And last night was a start. If he keeps getting that amount of chances in a game, he's going to make plays.
The Flyers are struggling to find the right mix, if it is even possible. A line with Lecavalier, Umberger, and a player like Vandevelde, isn't going to work. I don't even see it working with Simmonds there. They need a playmaker.
I don't think Simmonds looks good at LW either. He has also been struggling lately. He needs to play the right side, and needs a playmaker to get the puck
too him.
- MJL

This is why Berube deserves some credit I think.

He has a very poor mix to work with and they have played .500 hockey.
That is a positive achievement with this group also taking into account the injuries on D.

Putting BSchenn up with line one was a good move last night.

Playing VLC with Bellemare is also something worth trying.

This is why Berube deserves some credit I think.

He has a very poor mix to work with and they have played .500 hockey.
That is a positive achievement with this group also taking into account the injuries on D.

Putting BSchenn up with line one was a good move last night.

Playing VLC with Bellemare is also something worth trying.
- Marc D

Berube is desperately trying to find line groups that can work. But they have one very good line, and 3 other lines that have been okay, to poor. The Lecavalier line has been mostly ineffective. It improved with Bellemare up there. But then that weakens the 4th line. The Couturier line had a couple of good games with Schenn there. But with Simmonds not looking comfortable there, he changed it and moved Schenn back up there. Getting Raffl back will help.

And this team, even with it's struggles, injuries to the defense, etc. Is still only 2 points out of a playoff spot. Some of that has to do with other teams also struggling at times. But the playoffs are still right there. And it's premature to talk about a lottery pick.

Otters teammate Dylan Strome not McDavid's sidekick

http://www.lfpress.com/20...ome-not-mcdavids-sidekick

This is why Berube deserves some credit I think.

He has a very poor mix to work with and they have played .500 hockey.
That is a positive achievement with this group also taking into account the injuries on D.

Putting BSchenn up with line one was a good move last night.

Playing VLC with Bellemare is also something worth trying.
- Marc D

Berube was certainly left with a less than stellar mix of players to deal with, but with that said, the team is also certainly better than what they are producing night in and night out which is a utterly inconsistent product.

They look confused too often in every zone, whether on the PP, PK or on even strength, and that is inexcusable.

Changing lines every game, then every other shift once the game begins, only leads to an unsettled team at a time when this team needs to be more settled.

Berube was certainly left with a less than stellar mix of players to deal with, but with that said, the team is also certainly better than what they are producing night in and night out which is a utterly inconsistent product.

They look confused too often in every zone, whether on the PP, PK or on even strength, and that is inexcusable.

Changing lines every game, then every other shift once the game begins, only leads to an unsettled team at a time when this team needs to be more settled.
- 77rams

Could it be he's asking his team to do more than what they are capable of doing?

Just a thought

Berube was certainly left with a less than stellar mix of players to deal with, but with that said, the team is also certainly better than what they are producing night in and night out which is a utterly inconsistent product.

They look confused too often in every zone, whether on the PP, PK or on even strength, and that is inexcusable.

Changing lines every game, then every other shift once the game begins, only leads to an unsettled team at a time when this team needs to be more settled.
- 77rams

Catch 22. Would like to see consistency and continuity develop. But he also can't sit there and let the ship sink.

This team is Jekyll and Hyde. Win 3 in a row and 6 out of 8. Then come out of the break, start taking penalties, don't skate. Breakdowns come back in, etc.

Catch 22. Would like to see consistency and continuity develop. But he also can't sit there and let the ship sink.

This team is Jekyll and Hyde. Win 3 in a row and 6 out of 8. Then come out of the break, start taking penalties, don't skate. Breakdowns come back in, etc.
- MJL

You'd think that they'd come out of a 5 day break with a little more cohesion.

They had five days practice, to set their lines, and continue to work their system. But what we see coming off the break is more confusion and less competent play in all zones than before their time off.

You'd think that they'd come out of a 5 day break with a little more cohesion.

They had five days practice, to set their lines, and continue to work their system. But what we see coming off the break is more confusion and less competent play in all zones than before their time off.
- 77rams

I agree. I'm pretty sure the coaching staff worked them hard during practice to keep them sharp. Even reports of full 5 on 5 scrimmages in practice to simulate games. But they come out against Columbus, and not only give up 3 PP goals. But lose pretty much every puck battle, sloppy passes, slow puck movement and poor execution on breakouts. And lose to a team they should beat. It's frustrating.

maybe Berube has lost the room?

maybe Berube has lost the room?
- KGBflyers10

Add it to the list of what could be the problem(s)

Berube was certainly left with a less than stellar mix of players to deal with, but with that said, the team is also certainly better than what they are producing night in and night out which is a utterly inconsistent product.

They look confused too often in every zone, whether on the PP, PK or on even strength, and that is inexcusable.

Changing lines every game, then every other shift once the game begins, only leads to an unsettled team at a time when this team needs to be more settled.
- 77rams

It's a dilemma. Berube seems to have a quick trigger finger with some of the line combos, which, I understand, is in an effort to find something that clicks...but "instant" chemistry is rare...more commonly it is something that takes some time to develop, so constantly changing up the lines game to game and in the game can be "unsettling" as you say.

With Schenner maybe moving up to 1LW, Put Akeson back with Read and Coots. They're one of the few lines beyond the first that had a spark in the past 30 games. I believe from what I've seen this season, that Jake can now lead his own line, without G. I'm not saying they have to be broken up, but I think now that option, with Jake playing like he's playing, shouldn't be as risky.

Something like...

Raffl G Simmer
Schenn VLC Jake
Read Coots Akeson
Rinaldo PEB VDV/RJ

I think they miss Raffl a lot.
Without him they are close to being a one line team as Bill mentioned.
He was able to play effectively on the top line. He also is good on the PK and they miss that badly.

BSchenn and Couts had signs of some chemistry and maybe could provide secondary scoring after the first line.

Bellemare at center also could be another decent line with the right wingers.

I truly love Simmonds but he struggles at times in even strength play.
He did not look comfortable playing LW at all.

I am more worried then encouraged by VLC at this point.
I think they need to do whatever they can to move on from him.
It may include eating some salary or throwing in a mid round pick or prospect to get another team to take him. Maybe I'm wrong and they stick it out, but it's painful to watch right now.
- Marc D

I agree about Raffl. I think that top line is at its best when he's on it. Schenn looked good last night, so we'll see if it can be sustained.

I'm glad Schenn is settling in nicely at LW. If he can make that work, it will really help the team long term.

Read actually looked better after he scored that goal. Without Read playing well and Raffl injured, their two-way play at forward really suffers.

Arguing about Vinny and Umby is getting old.

We knew this team would be a bubble team going into this thing. Looks like that's where we're at.

Vinny and Umberger are proving themselves to be untradeable. So they will be bought out this summer with roughly 4.5 million on the cap to pay them not to play. (Beats 9.1 mil to pay them to play)

It will be interesting to see how the team does when Laughton eventually gets called up. If he keeps up his play down there I'm not sure there's a reason to keep him there all year. Maybe a February call up.

Would love to get a 2nd rounder minimal in this upcoming draft for one of L Schenn/Grossman/Coburn

maybe Berube has lost the room?
- KGBflyers10

It's just off the elevator, to the left, clearly marked.

Arguing about Vinny and Umby is getting old.

We knew this team would be a bubble team going into this thing. Looks like that's where we're at.

Vinny and Umberger are proving themselves to be untradeable. So they will be bought out this summer with roughly 4.5 million on the cap to pay them not to play. (Beats 9.1 mil to pay them to play)

It will be interesting to see how the team does when Laughton eventually gets called up. If he keeps up his play down there I'm not sure there's a reason to keep him there all year. Maybe a February call up.

Would love to get a 2nd rounder minimal in this upcoming draft for one of L Schenn/Grossman/Coburn
- Just5

I'd be absolutely shocked at both players being bought out. I don't think there is much chance of that happening, but I could be wrong. I see Lecavalier traded in the off season.

Could it be he's asking his team to do more than what they are capable of doing?

Just a thought
- ob18

Quite possibly, as fans we tend to overrate our talent

Couturier is an excellent 3rd line center, but he's not a 2nd line guy. He may be one day, but he's not there yet. Simmonds can play on a 2nd line, but he will only be effective if paired with creative players who can handle the puck carrying duties. Raffl is a nice 3rd liner who can complement 2 stars on the top line. Bellemare looks good so far but lets hopefully see him do it for a full season.

Giroux and Jake are studs and B Schenn seems to be taking the next step, but there are still a lot of holes to be filled.

I'd be absolutely shocked at both players being bought out. I don't think there is much chance of that happening, but I could be wrong. I see Lecavalier traded in the off season.
- MJL

I don't think there's any way Vinny is tradeable unless they take back a near equally disgusting contract. Look what Hartnell got them last summer. So they should get bought out.

The style Leier and Laughton play, bottom 6 role players, they probably need just one year in the AHL. They won't be called upon to do heavy lifting in the scoring department, and in my opinion will be more effective players for this team than either Vinny or RJ can next year. They are saving money on the cap in this scenario.

Quite possibly, as fans we tend to overrate our talent

Couturier is an excellent 3rd line center, but he's not a 2nd line guy. He may be one day, but he's not there yet. Simmonds can play on a 2nd line, but he will only be effective if paired with creative players who can handle the puck carrying duties. Raffl is a nice 3rd liner who can complement 2 stars on the top line. Bellemare looks good so far but lets hopefully see him do it for a full season.

Giroux and Jake are studs and B Schenn seems to be taking the next step, but there are still a lot of holes to be filled.
- BiggE

If we consider the usage of Sean Couturier, and what he is faced with game in game out, when looking at his offensive output at ES last season, it's really a strong number. And already ES offensive output of a 2nd line center. Last season, Wayne Simmonds was tied for 12 in points among all NHL RW's. In my opinion, players are not overrated. The problem with this team is in how the pieces fit. And not having the right mix of players to get the most value out of every player, and having the right mix of player to form 4 good lines.

I don't think there's any way Vinny is tradeable unless they take back a near equally disgusting contract. Look what Hartnell got them last summer. So they should get bought out.

The style Leier and Laughton play, bottom 6 role players, they probably need just one year in the AHL. They won't be called upon to do heavy lifting in the scoring department, and in my opinion will be more effective players for this team than either Vinny or RJ can next year. They are saving money on the cap in this scenario.
- Just5

Buying both of them out is a mistake. And I don't think trading Lecavalier is going to be easy, but not impossible. Laughton is going to be on the team sooner or later. Buying both players out is not saving money on the cap, it's carrying dead unusable money on the cap, that can't be used elsewhere.