Duper was average last year pre-ACL tear. He just was. And that was playing with 87. You want stats? OK. 2013-2014 pre-ACL tear: 7G, 13A, 39 games. 40 point pace for the year. That enough of a stat?

Kunitz was terrible down the stretch last year and in playoffs. Injury? Fatigue? So what. He was terrible. Stood by watching 87 get his ass beat. He is 1/2 the physical player he used to be. Rarely does he play the body anymore. He's turned into a finesse player.

Both are doing great this year. No doubt.

We'll see in March/April how they are doing. I hope you're right on both that they will keep this level of play up through a Cup run. I really do. I just don't think you will be.
- 87_71_11_29

And for final jeopardy...what line was Dupes on when the Pens made cup appearances in 08 and 09? For a bonus, how have the Pens playoff performances been since his promotion?

And for final jeopardy...what line was Dupes on when the Pens made cup appearances in 08 and 09? For a bonus, how have the Pens playoff performances been since his promotion?
- sammy87

While I agree with both of you, I think theres a bit of a misconception with these arguments. Its nothing against the players themselves, simply what role they are best in. On top of that, its just part of becoming old (unless you are Jagr). Its hard to play 82 games plus postseason play for anyone but particularly if you have a lot of miles. Similiar to NFL running backs. And theres a reason that 90% of great players are done or steeply declining by age 35.

And for final jeopardy...what line was Dupes on when the Pens made cup appearances in 08 and 09? For a bonus, how have the Pens playoff performances been since his promotion?
- sammy87

While I agree with both of you, I think theres a bit of a misconception with these arguments. Its nothing against the players themselves, simply what role they are best in. On top of that, its just part of becoming old (unless you are Jagr). Its hard to play 82 games plus postseason play for anyone but particularly if you have a lot of miles. Similiar to NFL running backs. And theres a reason that 90% of great players are done or steeply declining by age 35.

I agree if comparing Beau and Dupes in a vacuum. Duper definitely.

To all the "we told you so" crowd with Duper and Kunitz: Slow your roll. Its only 3 weeks in so far.

I was one of the "they are starting to show signs of aging" crowd. So far this season, they have proven me wrong. I certainly hope that continues.

Lets see how their bodies hold up over 82 and into April/May. After that, you can brag that you "knew it all along" and "I told you so".
- 87_71_11_29

So its just better to bury them and feel like a genious if they lose a step at 35. Then say "I told you so"?

And for final jeopardy...what line was Dupes on when the Pens made cup appearances in 08 and 09? For a bonus, how have the Pens playoff performances been since his promotion?
- sammy87

So what, we had a really good player on the 4th line back then?

Don't forget our 1st and 2nd line wingers those years were atrocious. Guerin (who was delivering less at his age than Kunitz is today) Satan, Fedotenko, Talbot on 2nd line, Sykora. etc

In hindsight, given the obvious chemistry Dupuis shows with both Crosby and Malkin, perhaps if he had been given Top 6 duty in 08 we win the cup, perhaps we win in 5 in 09 instead of in 7

It wasn't the fact that Duper was on the 4th line that miraculously put us over the top, It also wasn't because we has a iron clad group of top 9 players either

You're continuing attempt to make this point is useless

Duper is a top six player on any team in the league. Bennett has yet to prove anything other than that he can look good for a 10 game stint here and there. He is going to get hurt again anyway. On another note anyone notice how when Downie confronted Williams like 3 Kings all collapsed on Downie. Thats how a hockey team should act. We are still light years behind in that department. Zack Sill>Jayson Megna. Good Night.

Duper is a top six player on any team in the league. Bennett has yet to prove anything other than that he can look good for a 10 game stint here and there. He is going to get hurt again anyway. On another note anyone notice how when Downie confronted Williams like 3 Kings all collapsed on Downie. Thats how a hockey team should act. We are still light years behind in that department. Zack Sill>Jayson Megna. Good Night.
- Grinder47

I agree with everything you've said here.
I like Megna, well I like his speed. But Sill is going to fight against probably anyone in the league for his teammates and I think thats more important to this team than someone who may be able to score a few more goals.

Personally I would like to see another gritty hitting/fighting player in our top six. Thats why I would have loved to have gotten Kesler. Its why I would love to get Kane. I'd even trade for Byfuglien to play next to Malkin.

Duper is a top six player on any team in the league. Bennett has yet to prove anything other than that he can look good for a 10 game stint here and there. He is going to get hurt again anyway. On another note anyone notice how when Downie confronted Williams like 3 Kings all collapsed on Downie. Thats how a hockey team should act. We are still light years behind in that department. Zack Sill>Jayson Megna. Good Night.
- Grinder47

Nope. Zach Sill is a pretty terrible hockey player...

They don't get the same abuse because other players don't waste their time, they know Datsyuk and Zetterberg won't engage. There is a blueprint out there on Crosby and Malkin right now that you can get under their skin. Teams will continue to do so until they prove that it doesn't get under their skin.

The Penguins tried to punk Zetterberg and Datsyuk in the 2008 Stanley Cup Final, they just brushed it off.
- Ryan_Wilson

I had hoped that after 08 and 09 the Penguins would emulate what Detroit did. Play with composure, set picks, set screens, and let the puck do the heavy lifting. They have the perfect core for that kind of game plan. Hell, the Wings don't even chirp back from the bench. Ask Jarkko Ruutu.

The Penguins via Hornqvist finally set screens most of the time. That's certainly made the PP lethal.

Setting picks on the cycle and around the net is a work in progress. The top line is making great use of the net as a barrier and making the goalie look over his shoulder. I would like to see more picks set in open ice; it's okay to draft behind a player while carrying the puck.

The composure element is obviously still missing. I don't know what the solution is when the culprits are all of the teams' best players. The WHL coach is not going to bench Malkin for taking a ridiculous slashing penalty.

Perhaps Tocchet and Bill Guerin can have the likes of Paul Martin, Hornqvist, Comeau, Sutter, and Downie challenge their teammates on the bench after this kind of thing. There needs to be condemnation from the team for there to be accountability. Gunner is right in that a third man in to deter opponents from antagonizing the Crosbys and Letangs is an admission of the antagonistic player being affective.

So what, we had a really good player on the 4th line back then?

Don't forget our 1st and 2nd line wingers those years were atrocious. Guerin (who was delivering less at his age than Kunitz is today) Satan, Fedotenko, Talbot on 2nd line, Sykora. etc

In hindsight, given the obvious chemistry Dupuis shows with both Crosby and Malkin, perhaps if he had been given Top 6 duty in 08 we win the cup, perhaps we win in 5 in 09 instead of in 7

It wasn't the fact that Duper was on the 4th line that miraculously put us over the top, It also wasn't because we has a iron clad group of top 9 players either

You're continuing attempt to make this point is useless
- RoloTahmasee

Dupes is a very good 3rd line player and he is playing well this year.

The fact is in 08-09 the Pens had enough depth to put Dupes on the 3-4 line roles. They haven't had that luxury and as great chemistry as he has had, the top 6 has been shut down in the playoffs recently.

Dupes is a very good 3rd line player and he is playing well this year.

The fact is in 08-09 the Pens had enough depth to put Dupes on the 3-4 line roles. They haven't had that luxury and as great chemistry as he has had, the top 6 has been shut down in the playoffs recently.
- sammy87

It's true that Championship teams need quality depth, but that is less important than composure and strategy. The Iginla Penguins were easily the best Eastern Conference team on paper, perhaps the best paper team in the cap era. Look at that roster. It's ridiculous. That team promptly decomposed against the Islanders as they had done the season earlier against Philadelphia and proceeded to be bounced with no answer to Boston's perfectly calibrated trap system - much like the losses to Montreal and Tampa. There is not one blueprint to defeat Pittsburgh, there are several.

Skate the puck through the neutral zone.
Get in Fleury's kitchen.
Make Malkin and Letang snap.
Play the trap. I mean, Pittsburgh still can't beat the trap.

This is really low hanging fruit as far as strategy goes. I would really have liked the Penguins core at this stage in their collective careers to be a hell of a lot more dynamic than to lose to a passive 1-2-2 or be unable to contain the puck through the neutral zone. A forward who would push Dupuis down the depth chart (like, say, Bennett) hasn't and won't make up for it.

Nope. Zach Sill is a pretty terrible hockey player...
- j.boyd919

NHL coaches disagree with you.

NHL coaches disagree with you.
- Grinder47

You are right. Sill has been great... you are smart. You should be a coach...

You are right. Sill has been great... you are smart. You should be a coach...
- nh4442

Just saying.....and I am a coach. 7th graders. Basically the same as the NHL.

Since no one has mentioned it...I'm fine going bargain bin shopping for Loktionov. He is an upgrade over both Adams and Sill and maybe even Megna, and would be nice depth, imo. The issue obviously would be cap space, what to do with Adams, etc as I'm sure he wouldnt want a 2 way deal. But someone will offer him more than $700k I imagine so its probably moot anyway.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I'd take a flyer on Loktionov. He played for $725k last year on a one way, I'd do it again this season.

But the fact that JR saw him play last year and hasn't seemed to go after him tells me he might not be worth it. Him and Lou know him more than anyone, and they don't seem all that interested.

Still don't get the point of calling Megna up. I can see having an extra forward for a road trip, but why bring the most expensive guy up and have him sit at home?

It doesn't even make sense for cap reasons.

Just saying.....and I am a coach. 7th graders. Basically the same as the NHL.
- Grinder47

I'm a jv HS coach as well... you should know better. Megna will be better on the 4th line than Sill

Still don't get the point of calling Megna up. I can see having an extra forward for a road trip, but why bring the most expensive guy up and have him sit at home?

It doesn't even make sense for cap reasons.
- rival22

Exactly so he should be in the line up

Been looking at capgeek and looked at 2 possible trades jr could make. Send sutter and letang to the ducks for kesler and sliverberg kesler could be our third line center sliverberg can play on kesler line with bennet. 2nd trade Martin to the wild for niño to play with geno keep your first round pick and your cap looks nice with a cup team.

It's true that Championship teams need quality depth, but that is less important than composure and strategy. The Iginla Penguins were easily the best Eastern Conference team on paper, perhaps the best paper team in the cap era. Look at that roster. It's ridiculous. That team promptly decomposed against the Islanders as they had done the season earlier against Philadelphia and proceeded to be bounced with no answer to Boston's perfectly calibrated trap system - much like the losses to Montreal and Tampa. There is not one blueprint to defeat Pittsburgh, there are several.

Skate the puck through the neutral zone.
Get in Fleury's kitchen.
Make Malkin and Letang snap.
Play the trap. I mean, Pittsburgh still can't beat the trap.

This is really low hanging fruit as far as strategy goes. I would really have liked the Penguins core at this stage in their collective careers to be a hell of a lot more dynamic than to lose to a passive 1-2-2 or be unable to contain the puck through the neutral zone. A forward who would push Dupuis down the depth chart (like, say, Bennett) hasn't and won't make up for it.
- Johnny Wrath

You know mostly I dont agree with anything you say, but this assessment was pretty spot on. I would also add Crosby to the 'make the snap' strategy too.

We have a much better coach this year, I think he probably has a few ideas to beat the trap/collapsing defense that opponents play. I would guess better than DB's try the stretch pass harded strategy.

Been looking at capgeek and looked at 2 possible trades jr could make. Send sutter and letang to the ducks for kesler and sliverberg kesler could be our third line center sliverberg can play on kesler line with bennet. 2nd trade Martin to the wild for niño to play with geno keep your first round pick and your cap looks nice with a cup team.
- Palmer117

Would love to get Kesler, but that ship has sailed, Anaheim is not trading him.

Nino on the other hand we may be able to get, but it will cost us more than Martin. Not sure if Minny would be interested in one of of dmen prospects if we are sending Martin, so likely a forward like Sutter or Bennett or a substantial pick, probably 1st. Nino is no joke, he is a very good talent. Has size, can skate, signed to a good contract.

I'd do Martin + 1st

Still don't get the point of calling Megna up. I can see having an extra forward for a road trip, but why bring the most expensive guy up and have him sit at home?

It doesn't even make sense for cap reasons.
- rival22

Could be a reward, call up to increase his pay for a few games.

I'd take a flyer on Loktionov. He played for $725k last year on a one way, I'd do it again this season.

But the fact that JR saw him play last year and hasn't seemed to go after him tells me he might not be worth it. Him and Lou know him more than anyone, and they don't seem all that interested.
- rival22

GMJR traded for him once, no? Our depth will obviously improve with the return of Bennett, but if Sill is our best option as first minor call up, we really should consider bringing in someone like Loktionov. Now, JR may have a huge trade in mind for a top 6 guy and make the need for guys like him less pressing.

It really sucks Kapanen and Sundqvist are stuck with their European teams until their season is over. I wish they were available like say, halfway through the season, if we needed a call up.

I agree with everything you've said here.
I like Megna, well I like his speed. But Sill is going to fight against probably anyone in the league for his teammates and I think thats more important to this team than someone who may be able to score a few more goals.

Personally I would like to see another gritty hitting/fighting player in our top six. Thats why I would have loved to have gotten Kesler. Its why I would love to get Kane. I'd even trade for Byfuglien to play next to Malkin.
- stackthepads

I tend to agree. I really wanted a pure skill guy in the mix on the wings as we dont really have that other than the oft-injured Bennett and Kapanen who isn't ready yet. For the short term I would love a guy like Big Buff or Brent Burns. But big guys with skill are rare, of course, and cost a premium.

I appreciate scuds playing better but at this point I'm still all for getting rid of him for the sake of the young guys getting better development than the Ahl. Several of them coulD make the jump without it hurting their personal progress. Any kind of picks would do unless JR. Is hoping a team is desperate near the deadline.

As for Adams, replacing him with anyone who doesn't have to have The idiotic excuses like "well he hasn't been on the ice for many goals against" made for them by this fan base would be huge to me. I dont know why they don't but hey there's still plenty of time for it to happen before the seasons over.
- ImScore71

Scuds is increasing his trade value as he plays better... Lots of teams need d, might have to retain some $
As far as dupes/ kuni are concerned... This whole arguement is ridiculous! The guy is almost a point per game this year on a 6 2 team! It's good to be a pens fan these days... Imagine the conversation if we were buffalo or Edmonton !!!! Go pens!!!