And again, Halloween just was yesterday, and somebody has not put the straw man away. In fact, after picking the straw man out a few hours ago, you march him right back.

Where is any/everyone saying everything is wrong? Help me...put up some qoutes?
- TrueGrit

Christ sake dude there are people here ripping on Kane, saying the Hawks are a .500 team and constantly ripping the most successful Hawks group of players the city of Chicago has ever seen only to see them (last season with all the Doom & Gloom crowd) come a twice deflected puck away from winning their second Cup in two seasons.

I don't need quotes. Go back and put on your glasses and read what is being posted (for a few years now, that is).

There's no straw man - it's fact. Huge difference.

As I wrote earlier. Look with Kane, Toews, Seabrook , Keith and CC, you have enough there that puts you in the conversation every year. I never denied that. Some of us are looking at other things that we see or perceive that to us do not pass the sniff test. This does not make us doom and gloomers, it makes us people, trying to figure out what is wrong.

I always feel like most teams have a path to be cup competitive each year. As a fan, I have to rationalize it some how. Some/most never find it. I am just looking for something positive to trend, other than we have a handful of elite guys with a history of playing big in big games. Don't get me wrong, that is a great asset, but pointing to some other stuff, chemistry, cohesiveness, consistent style of play...those would get me farther down the road and separate them from the up and comers.
- TrueGrit

Everything you said is fair.

But regarding the bolded, my question is how much more can you realistically expect in the salary cap era?

Every team is going to have holes and problems. The days of the 80's Oilers are gone, no team is going to dominate like that again. At least it's not likely.

I just think the Hawks are better positioned, despite recent struggles, to compete for the cup than all but about 3 or 4 other teams. Looking back over roughly the past decade, how many Stanley cup winners can you say were true surprises?

Maybe the Kings the first time around, but the underlying numbers show that team was much better than their regular season record showed.

Christ sake dude there are people here ripping on Kane, saying the Hawks are a .500 team and constantly ripping the most successful Hawks group of players the city of Chicago has ever seen only to see them (last season with all the Doom & Gloom crowd) come a twice deflected puck away from winning their second Cup in two seasons.

I don't need quotes. Go back and put on your glasses and read what is being posted (for a few years now, that is).

There's no straw man - it's fact. Huge difference.
- CaptainBlackhawk

I am not an expert nor do I play one on TV. A team that is averaging 40 (frank)ing shots a game has to be doing something right. Oh right. They are ALL perimeter shots.

What it does show if you care to look beyond the incredibly low shooting percentage is that teams who do well in advanced stats are playing late in the year.

Is it a guarantee? No. It shows a high probability of it happening though.

Or we can trade everyone for more red ass.

I am not an expert nor do I play one on TV. A team that is averaging 40 (frank)ing shots a game has to be doing something right. Oh right. They are ALL perimeter shots.

What it does show if you care to look beyond the incredibly low shooting percentage is that teams who do well in advanced stats are playing late in the year.

Is it a guarantee? No. It shows a high probability of it happening though.

Or we can trade everyone for more red ass.
- Elbows15

Wimps and ninnies I call 'em! Trade 'em all for a bottle of Janitor in a Drum, 2.3 grams of salt and a three day old carp.

I am not an expert nor do I play one on TV. A team that is averaging 40 (frank)ing shots a game has to be doing something right. Oh right. They are ALL perimeter shots.

What it does show if you care to look beyond the incredibly low shooting percentage is that teams who do well in advanced stats are playing late in the year.

Is it a guarantee? No. It shows a high probability of it happening though.

Or we can trade everyone for more red ass.
- Elbows15

This type of solid/fact based argument doesn't fit into the doom & gloom, Hawks are doomed crowd, Elbows.

Instead, let's point to an arbitrary date from LAST season, somehow making a comparison to THIS season (at completely different points in their season, with different personnel) and say "this has been a .500 team".

Wimps and ninnies I call 'em! Trade 'em all for a bottle of Janitor in a Drum, 2.3 grams of salt and a three day old carp.
- Beaver-Warrior

Everything you said is fair.

But regarding the bolded, my question is how much more can you realistically expect in the salary cap era?

Every team is going to have holes and problems. The days of the 80's Oilers are gone, no team is going to dominate like that again. At least it's not likely.

I just think the Hawks are better positioned, despite recent struggles, to compete for the cup than all but about 3 or 4 other teams. Looking back over roughly the past decade, how many Stanley cup winners can you say were true surprises?

Maybe the Kings the first time around, but the underlying numbers show that team was much better than their regular season record showed.
- Tweek

Fair points, I agree 80s are gone. And yes salary cup is a new paradigm. But it is what it is.

Yes, on paper, they should and will be there. But in the case of the Kings, they took some lumps early and built throughout the season to be peaking at the end. Hawks did opposite, peaking in December.

Now, if some of this stuff happening now is responded to and figured out by players and coaches, that is you see some trends develop in teh right direction, I will be the first to say that these bumps in the road were what the team needed. I will be happy, but my caution is that the trend that started mid last season has carried forward.

My first clue will be if they win 3 in a row in regular time. It is crazy to think that this team has not won more than 2 in a row without oT in 47 games!

Wimps and ninnies I call 'em! Trade 'em all for a bottle of Janitor in a Drum, 2.3 grams of salt and a three day old carp.
- Beaver-Warrior

How bout a 2 day old carp and a pair of Red Ass jeans! Slim fit, not the boot cut...

- Elbows15

I'm willing to share the carp but not the salt.

As I wrote earlier. Look with Kane, Toews, Seabrook , Keith and CC, you have enough there that puts you in the conversation every year. I never denied that. Some of us are looking at other things that we see or perceive that to us do not pass the sniff test. This does not make us doom and gloomers, it makes us people, trying to figure out what is wrong.

I always feel like most teams have a path to be cup competitive each year. As a fan, I have to rationalize it some how. Some/most never find it. I am just looking for something positive to trend, other than we have a handful of elite guys with a history of playing big in big games. Don't get me wrong, that is a great asset, but pointing to some other stuff, chemistry, cohesiveness, consistent style of play...those would get me farther down the road and separate them from the up and comers.
- TrueGrit

But you and Savvy and Rob don't try to analyze the situation - you spend a lot of time sarcastically calling out anyone who disagrees with you.

Maybe you are just a Devil's Advocate, arguing against what you perceive to be the conventional wisdom - and if that wisdom turns against the Hawks, you'd be the first to predict a Cup.

But whatever you're doing - and whatever opinions the three of you hold - there is no logic, rational argument, statistics, or any other form of analysis in almost any of your posts.

But you and Savvy and Rob don't try to analyze the situation - you spend a lot of time sarcastically calling out anyone who disagrees with you.

Maybe you are just a Devil's Advocate, arguing against what you perceive to be the conventional wisdom - and if that wisdom turns against the Hawks, you'd be the first to predict a Cup.

But whatever you're doing - and whatever opinions the three of you hold - there is no logic, rational argument, statistics, or any other form of analysis in almost any of your posts.
- StLBravesFan

It's gone on year after year - it's nothing new. And if they aren't the ONLY team who is raising the holy grail at the end of the year the standard response can be "Told ya so".

Again... a large reason why this message board (on the Hawks side) has dropped off dramatically.

But you and Savvy and Rob don't try to analyze the situation - you spend a lot of time sarcastically calling out anyone who disagrees with you.

Maybe you are just a Devil's Advocate, arguing against what you perceive to be the conventional wisdom - and if that wisdom turns against the Hawks, you'd be the first to predict a Cup.

But whatever you're doing - and whatever opinions the three of you hold - there is no logic, rational argument, statistics, or any other form of analysis in almost any of your posts.
- StLBravesFan

Wrong STL. REad what I have written regarding the core etc...time and time again.

A few of us were having a discussion about the teams ills and others...that is OTHERS come in and start throwing stones. Now, like I mentioned earlier, according to you, because I am called something, I should spend my time refuting it?
That is not how it works. Back read a few pages and see what some of us have said, particulars etc. If you want to split hairs and find moral victoryes with shot totals etc...that is fine. I just disagree.

Pointing out the team has not won more than 2 in a row in regulation in 47 odd games, is that not a stat? That the same trend of them being about a 500 team since Jan 1...is that not a fact?

As I pointed out to Tweek I believe, is that I am hoping that the bumps they are experiencing now, actually lead to something positive. That is we look back to what is happening now and say, glad we went thru that to figure stuff out. That jury is out though.

Wrong STL. REad what I have written regarding the core etc...time and time again.

A few of us were having a discussion about the teams ills and others...that is OTHERS come in and start throwing stones. Now, like I mentioned earlier, according to you, because I am called something, I should spend my time refuting it?
That is not how it works. Back read a few pages and see what some of us have said, particulars etc. If you want to split hairs and find moral victoryes with shot totals etc...that is fine. I just disagree.

Pointing out the team has not won more than 2 in a row in regulation in 47 odd games, is that not a stat? That the same trend of them being about a 500 team since Jan 1...is that not a fact?

As I pointed out to Tweek I believe, is that I am hoping that the bumps they are experiencing now, actually lead to something positive. That is we look back to what is happening now and say, glad we went thru that to figure stuff out. That jury is out though.
- TrueGrit

That wasn't your stat - that was Bogie's. Good of you to include it, tho. I happen to agree - at some point after 2013 turned into 2014, among othe problems that have seemingly cleared up this year, the goal scoring machine that was the Hawks turned into Buffalo. (Well, not that bad, but....). And - it has continued into this year.

But although I haven't been posting, I have back read everything written here - including the 80% of your posts (and Savvy's and Rob's) that have no content other than sarcasm and unsupported opinions - unsupported by facts, logic, reasoning....

On a side note, I love randomly coming across this video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwuUzSZfQ4k

And the point you're missing is it has become REALLY tiresome to explain to folks that the doom and gloom crowd, way over the top, everything is wrong, Hawks suck crowd has been here.. well.. forever.

And I know what's going to be said: You're wrong, that's not what people are saying.

I answer: There's a reason why this message board has become devoid of posters. Most everyone got tired of the same ol' thing year in and year out. They actually like to have rational discussion about the team vs. the "OH MY GOD EVERYTHING IS WRONG" crowd.
- CaptainBlackhawk

I never "attack" anyone personally, but it's my cynicism, and that of others, that's chasing folks away from this forum?

Really? Ok then...

I'm willing to share the carp but not the salt.
- Beaver-Warrior

Baked? Fried? Beer battered?

Call it what you'd like but now you seem to be playing a bit of gotcha. I was commenting on something you said in regard to the board and how the inability to criticize or acknowledge any shortcoming with the team was similar to an uprising that occurred in 1920's Germany.

Nowhere have I said anything about what you post has any impact on the team's play...ever. That would be absurd.

You seem to pull that one out a lot "absurd meeting the absurd". Like you I could care less about how I'm judged in the blogosphere; but when you have a certain way of posting and then you make a comment like you made, you may want to use red font or an emoticon (I know you know how to use those) just saying.

But whatever, carry on.
- HawkintheD

OK done ...lets move on...Go Sharks....Just kidding...just kidding...

If you were trying to give an award for the most relentlessly negative poster, who would win? Rob, Savvy, or TG?
- SimpleJack

Please be me...I love winning awards!

Captain...what's way overboard is the notion that my cynicsm is "extreme", occurs "every single year" "year over year".

My "constant cynicism" really began after last years olympics, and in my opinion was justified.

But to make you happy I'll let you claim victory...

...and I'll leave you to yourselves.

Adios all...enjoy the season. Sure hope the Hawks straighten things out for all of us.
- ArlingtonRob

I was rather new to the site at the time, but i can specifically remember you already having a reputation around here for being the poster child negative nancy before we went on to win the Cup in 2013. You've probably always been this way. You seem like a nice guy, no problem with you, just dont at all understand why you cant have more faith in this team.

Wow! I didn't know we perfected time travel. Its 2011 all over again.

Captain...what's way overboard is the notion that my cynicsm is "extreme", occurs "every single year" "year over year".

My "constant cynicism" really began after last years olympics, and in my opinion was justified.

But to make you happy I'll let you claim victory...

...and I'll leave you to yourselves.

Adios all...enjoy the season. Sure hope the Hawks straighten things out for all of us.
- ArlingtonRob

they better trade for some grinders and pounding defensemen or this core is toast

Wow! I didn't know we perfected time travel. Its 2011 all over again.
- fvineze

Too bad it's not 2010.

Many of you have pointed out that based on various stats this team is doing just fine and the rest of us should have nothing to be worried about. But let me bring up something that no one has talked about specifically. The standings. The Hawks are 16th in the league, 9th in our Conference and 4th in our Division with a record not good enough for a wild card spot. True, we have only played 11 games and there are 71 remaining, a lot can happen. But honestly, they have played like a hot mess over a number of periods, sloppy and uninspired. Their record indicates they are a very middle of the road team with others around them having improved. So say the standings.

This type of solid/fact based argument doesn't fit into the doom & gloom, Hawks are doomed crowd, Elbows.

Instead, let's point to an arbitrary date from LAST season, somehow making a comparison to THIS season (at completely different points in their season, with different personnel) and say "this has been a .500 team".
- CaptainBlackhawk

Since I am the one that posted that stat....the date of 1/1/14 was not arbitrary. The Hwks got off to a great start last year (fall of 2013) and the beginning of 2014 seems to be a change point that has carried over into this year and the personnel and composition of the team is basically unchanged.

The first 3 months of last year they averaging almost 4 goals per game. They had several 3 gm regulation win streaks and a 4 gme streak. Since then winning 2 in a row in regulation has been tough to come by. And yeah they have been slightly above .500.

Many of you have pointed out that based on various stats this team is doing just fine and the rest of us should have nothing to be worried about. But let me bring up something that no one has talked about specifically. The standings. The Hawks are 16th in the league, 9th in our Conference and 4th in our Division with a record not good enough for a wild card spot. True, we have only played 11 games and there are 71 remaining, a lot can happen. But honestly, they have played like a hot mess over a number of periods, sloppy and uninspired. Their record indicates they are a very middle of the road team with others around them having improved. So say the standings.
- Hawksnbears

And the standings and record from 1/1/14 to the close of last season was 18-14-9 say the same thing...avg to slightly above avg team. That is 26-18-10 over there last 54 gmes.