That's not a fair assessment, Wiercioch had the potential to be a very good top-4 offensive defenseman who could play the 2nd PP, but management and the coaching staff ruined his progress towards that goal last year.

Edit: Ceci though, dang that kid is going to be special.
- TheCalSen

oh, i know. i was just messing around.

i think wiercioch has lots of potential, but he's been handled poorly by this team, which i feel has hurt his development.

oh, i know. i was just messing around.

i think wiercioch has lots of potential, but he's been handled poorly by this team, which i feel has hurt his development.
- sensarmy_11

i think its more broken his confidence...

i think its more broken his confidence...
- TheMike12

i think it's probably a pretty even mix of both actually

The Wiercioch situation is tricky. I think both sides are to blame. The organization didn't do a great job at playing him properly the last couple of seasons. However, Wiercioch has not done himself any favours when he does get a chance to play. Having good passing ability will only get you so far in this league. I wouldn't stick a fork in him just yet, but sooner or later there will have to be a decision made whether or not he is going to be a full time NHL d-man or get rid of him. With the development of Ceci, I would lean towards getting rid of him.

The Wiercioch situation is tricky. I think both sides are to blame. The organization didn't do a great job at playing him properly the last couple of seasons. However, Wiercioch has not done himself any favours when he does get a chance to play. Having good passing ability will only get you so far in this league. I wouldn't stick a fork in him just yet, but sooner or later there will have to be a decision made whether or not he is going to be a full time NHL d-man or get rid of him. With the development of Ceci, I would lean towards getting rid of him.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

The thing with Weircoche is he is regressing - when you watch Ceci play he looks like he wants to win and plays with emotion and grit - Weircoche looks like he doesn't want anyone to touch him or touch anyone else - he looks like a germaphobe.

Cowen plays like he wants to win, he's trying, just overdoing it

The thing with Weircoche is he is regressing - when you watch Ceci play he looks like he wants to win and plays with emotion and grit - Weircoche looks like he doesn't want anyone to touch him or touch anyone else - he looks like a germaphobe.

Cowen plays like he wants to win, he's trying, just overdoing it
- tuna99

I think that is just his personality too. One of those people who never gets to high or too low. That's not necessarily a bad thing. However, if you aren't playing well, like he is so far, it looks pretty bad.

On a bit of a different note, I think it's unfair to condemn his play because he isn't physical or have much grit. He has never been that type of defensman. He's been a guy who good positionally and can move the puck. That is what we want him to evolve as. That is where he should be critiqued. So far, hasn't been great in either area.

The thing with Weircoche is he is regressing - when you watch Ceci play he looks like he wants to win and plays with emotion and grit - Weircoche looks like he doesn't want anyone to touch him or touch anyone else - he looks like a germaphobe.

Cowen plays like he wants to win, he's trying, just overdoing it
- tuna99

How good do you think Ceci will be in the future?

How good do you think Ceci will be in the future?
- ClarksonDavid

My 2 cents on the guy...

I don't think he'll ever be Karlsson's partner. It would force him to play a type of game that doesn't exploit his obvious strengths. So, I think with the Senators, he's a solid #3 guy down the road.

If he was on a team that needed a solid offensive d-man for their top pair and PP1, then I think he'd be that guy by the time he's 25-26.

How good do you think Ceci will be in the future?
- ClarksonDavid

Basically Morgan Rielly.

Basically Morgan Rielly.
- TheCalSen

Good comparison. I'd be happy if I was a Sens fan and Ceci in his prime is as good as Rielly is now

Good comparison. I'd be happy if I was a Sens fan and Ceci in his prime is as good as Rielly is now
- ClarksonDavid

That's exactly what I meant.

Didnt see the Gryba hit that was in question yesterday (or a couple days ago?) but all i thought about was the Eller hit where it looked like he killed him haha.

Is Gryba a always a big hitter? Is he dirty or just a little off in his timing of big hits occasionally?

How good do you think Ceci will be in the future?
- ClarksonDavid

Sean Simpson (former Leafs exec and the guy who traded Rask for Raycroft) calls him Doughty light.

he's going to be a solid #2 Dman in the mold of a Nic Kronwall / Ed Jovanoski. His final draft ranking was #6 in a solid draft. he's easily one of the better young Dman in the league already.

Didnt see the Gryba hit that was in question yesterday (or a couple days ago?) but all i thought about was the Eller hit where it looked like he killed him haha.

Is Gryba a always a big hitter? Is he dirty or just a little off in his timing of big hits occasionally?
- BlazinMike

The only incidents in his career so far have been the Eller hit and this one. I honestly can't tell whether the head was the main point of contact on this one, but the league didn't see it as suspendable, and certainly the columbus player had his head *way* down.

As for the Eller hit, I, and many others, still content that it was clean - that he was rocked hard, but the damage was done when he smashed his face on the ice.

Also, to all the people talking about how great Ceci's been.. he really hasn't. His possession numbers are some of the worst on the team, and almost every player has better possession number when they're not playing with him. He hasn't been committing egregious turnovers, but you can't say that someone is playing well when they're actively dragging down possession.

The only incidents in his career so far have been the Eller hit and this one. I honestly can't tell whether the head was the main point of contact on this one, but the league didn't see it as suspendable, and certainly the columbus player had his head *way* down.

As for the Eller hit, I, and many others, still content that it was clean - that he was rocked hard, but the damage was done when he smashed his face on the ice.

Also, to all the people talking about how great Ceci's been.. he really hasn't. His possession numbers are some of the worst on the team, and almost every player has better possession number when they're not playing with him. He hasn't been committing egregious turnovers, but you can't say that someone is playing well when they're actively dragging down possession.
- amanicom

Watch the game bud, don't rely too heavily on a piece of paper with numbers. Ceci has been our best 5v5 defenseman so far.

Watch the game bud, don't rely too heavily on a piece of paper with numbers. Ceci has been our best 5v5 defenseman so far.
- TheCalSen

He's been bad in a quiet way. He's not making terrible plays. He's not giving up the puck all the time. But when he's on the ice, the other team is more likely to be shooting the puck on our net than when he's not, and we're less likely to be shooting on theres. Clearly he's doing something wrong. Maybe he's bad at stripping other people of the puck - that's something that wouldn't be all that noticeable to the eye.

He's been bad in a quiet way. He's not making terrible plays. He's not giving up the puck all the time. But when he's on the ice, the other team is more likely to be shooting the puck on our net than when he's not, and we're less likely to be shooting on theres. Clearly he's doing something wrong. Maybe he's bad at stripping other people of the puck - that's something that wouldn't be all that noticeable to the eye.
- amanicom

ceci has had good moments this year, and bad moments this year. possession numbers indicate that he's had more bad moments........where i think the difference is between his bad moments, and say guys like cowen and wiercioch, is that his bad moments don't seem to wind up in the back of our net, which makes them a little harder to notice.

you can practically guarantee that everytime cowen makes an "oops", it's gonna wind up in a goal against.........which increases the frustration with his play exponentially. ceci's mistakes end up there far less often. you could argue that a lot of that have to do with the fact that he's playing easier competition, who really knows.

kid line is SOOOOO good

kid line is SOOOOO good
- sensarmy_11

Hoffman's got great hands.

Hoffman's got great hands.
- TheCalSen

and speed.......he's RIDICULOUSLY fast

Turris line absolutely slaughtered in 1st. You don't see that very often.

Turris line absolutely slaughtered in 1st. You don't see that very often.
- Fjodor

think possession numbers might be a little misleading there......they had so many changes that were just missed (as in just missed the net, and didn't count as shots).

edit - as i'm writing this, Grizz scores.......(frank) he's a good player

i think this has been the worst 25 minutes i've ever seen karlsson play......he's easily been the worst player on the ice for ottawa

i think this has been the worst 25 minutes i've ever seen karlsson play......he's easily been the worst player on the ice for ottawa
- sensarmy_11

Yep. Zero D zone instincts tonight.

remember when leaf fans made fun of us for picking up grizz?