Rushing him has to do with his own personal development, not whether or not he's better than what we have
- funmaster18

It's a game not brain surgery

Also keep in mind the fact that Ghost was one of many guys in orange that had a rough shift on the sequence that ended in the Datsyuk goal. When the Flyers retook the lead at 3-2, Berube had to go with the four defensemen whom he felt were having the best game on this night, which were the 8-32 and 15-55 pairs.
- bmeltzer

That's not accurate. LSchenn played twice as many shifts after the goal as Streit did.

http://www.nhl.com/scores...rts/20142015/TH020111.HTM

Defensemen shifts in the 3rd after BSchenn's goal at 11:05

MDZ 7
Schultz 6
Grossmann 6
LSchenn 6
Streit 3
Gostisbehere 0

LSchenn also finished the game with more ice time than Grossmann and Schultz.

I think it's the right approach. I don't care if Ghost or Alt or Sanheim or Hagg is better than Schenn or Grossmann or MDZ now, I care that they are better in a few years, when the team is ready to contend.
- Jsaquella

They'll be contending on the tail end of the nucleus's prime.

They are rushing him if he's not ready. What's more important, this season or Gostisbehere reaching his full potential
- Jsaquella

When wil he be ready exactly? And exactly how many prospects have been "ruined" by getting an early start b/c I really can't think of that many. It's really arguable if Sbisa was "ruined", he might have just never been that good to begin with.

The opponent changed
- PhillySportsGuy

Pittsburgh and Detroit are both good possession teams. One has Crosby and Malkin, the other has Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

I wonder what changed from the Pittsburgh game were they were even. Must have been Rinaldo getting hurt.
- Feanor

I finally finished watching it. It was ugly, but it's just going to be this way, right now, against a team like Detroit.

Ghost looked like a player playing in his first game. Some good stuff, some stuff a rookie will do. I understand how he was used last night.

I don't know what I want them to do. If you can't play Manning or Alt, and you don't want to play Ghost, then the options that are available are what we all know: trade or FA.

Signing one of the FAs out there is akin to raising the white flag for a month. A trade depletes assets that you probably should keep.

I don't know what the hell I would do.

I finally finished watching it. It was ugly, but it's just going to be this way, right now, against a team like Detroit.

Ghost looked like a player playing in his first game. Some good stuff, some stuff a rookie will do. I understand how he was used last night.

I don't know what I want them to do. If you can't play Manning or Alt, and you don't want to play Ghost, then the options that are available are what we all know: trade or FA.

Signing one of the FAs out there is akin to raising the white flag for a month. A trade depletes assets that you probably should keep.

I don't know what the hell I would do.
- AllInForFlyers

white flag it

When wil he be ready exactly? And exactly how many prospects have been "ruined" by getting an early start b/c I really can't think of that many. It's really arguable if Sbisa was "ruined", he might have just never been that good to begin with.
- JoeRussomanno

Schenn, Del Zotto, Sbisa, Larsson, Tom Wilson-all guys tossed into the deep end of the pool early who never reached expectations or who have struggled to be effective NHLers.

Gostisbehere has 5 games of pro hockey under his belt. Its not as if hes been in the AHL for 4 years. Sbisa was dropped into the line up, bounced in & out, played left wing & then dumped back to the WHL. Even if he never had the ability, his development was handled poorly.

Schenn, Del Zotto, Sbisa, Larsson, Tom Wilson-all guys tossed into the deep end of the pool early who never reached expectations or who have struggled to be effective NHLers.

Gostisbehere has 5 games of pro hockey under his belt. Its not as if hes been in the AHL for 4 years. Sbisa was dropped into the line up, bounced in & out, played left wing & then dumped back to the WHL. Even if he never had the ability, his development was handled poorly.
- Jsaquella

Tom Wilson is back in the AHL

white flag it
- -davies-

Damn it.

That goes against everything I believe, but Ghost needs more time, because of how the defense is constructed. If Coburn were around, everything would be different, but he isn't.

You're right. I hate to say it because watching the corpses of Ryan Whitney or Carlo Coliacovo, et al, is going to make a grown man cry.

Maybe get Ghost one more game so he can have a better feel for what he needs to do, then send him back and try to steal points for a month.

Schenn, Del Zotto, Sbisa, Larsson, Tom Wilson-all guys tossed into the deep end of the pool early who never reached expectations or who have struggled to be effective NHLers.

Gostisbehere has 5 games of pro hockey under his belt. Its not as if hes been in the AHL for 4 years. Sbisa was dropped into the line up, bounced in & out, played left wing & then dumped back to the WHL. Even if he never had the ability, his development was handled poorly.
- Jsaquella

You can't just say they got rushed, what exactly did it do for schenn? Force him to skate slower? Force him to pass the puck blindly? Rob him of the complete ability to handle a puck and skate at the same time? These guys just weren't good enough.

Pittsburgh and Detroit are both good possession teams. One has Crosby and Malkin, the other has Datsyuk and Zetterberg.
- Feanor

They just seem to play with more confidence against the Pens. I think the Wings are more structured than the Pens. They lack the backend talent the Pens have though.

They just seem to play with more confidence against the Pens. I think the Wings are more structured than the Pens. They lack the backend talent the Pens have though.
- PhillySportsGuy

Up and down the roster, Detroit has smarter hockey players.

Pittsburgh might have more talent, especially at the top end. But Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Nyquist, Abdelkader, etc., those guys are all smarter hockey players than all but Crosby, and Crosby is prone to frustration.

Niklas Kronwall alone is smarter than the entire Pittsburgh defense except for Paul Martin, who is as soft as they come.

Damn it.

That goes against everything I believe, but Ghost needs more time, because of how the defense is constructed. If Coburn were around, everything would be different, but he isn't.

You're right. I hate to say it because watching the corpses of Ryan Whitney or Carlo Coliacovo, et al, is going to make a grown man cry.

Maybe get Ghost one more game so he can have a better feel for what he needs to do, then send him back and try to steal points for a month.
- AllInForFlyers

I get the feeling theres a little disagreement between Berube and Hextall. Not a full fledged fight, but a subtle disagreement.

I think Hextall wants to keep Ghost in the minors and Berube wants him with the Flyers. Similar to the way Berube wanted Morin to get at least the 9 game tryout and Hextall wanted to send him back.

I have a feeling they compromised by bringing up Ghost, but agreeing to send him back down when Hextall is able to make a move (FA or small trade) for a veteran.

I agree about streit as he has been as advertised really. no issue with him. contract maybe a 1 year too long is all.

I was figuring now might be a good time to rid of gorssmans contract and or possibly schenns. short term hit no doubt.
- rinaldo

Here's the problem, though: minus Grossmann and Schenn, the Flyers are severely lacking size and physicality on the blueline, which you need some of in the mix, too. Of the two, Grossmann is simply the better at his designated role than Schenn has been over their respective careers.

I have seen Dallas struggle with that issue for several years. They've got plenty of mobility, passing acumen and finesse on D but not enough size or muscle to complement it. Nemeth was their "young Grossmann" hopeful but is now lost for the season and Oleksiak has really struggled in many of his games at the NHL level, leaving only the steady Brenden Dillon to supply those traits.

I'd be fine with the Flyers trading Grossmann -- as much as I like him both as a person and a player in his role -- but then who do you get to play that role and does it actually save you cap space/ trade assets to find a comparable or superior replacement? It will not be Oliver Lauridsen or anyone else currently eligible for a callup.

If the Flyers want to go into full-blown rebuilding mode, that's one thing (although then you are wasting Giroux, Simmonds and Voracek in their primes). If they want to continue to be a bubble team while trying to develop their young defenseman and resisting trading assets away, you've got the current product for what might be a few more years.

There is no doubt the Flyers need a true number one and two defenseman in his prime, which would actually make the rest of the group seem MUCH better as they get deployed in more ideal situations -- think Meszaros' Barry Ashbee Trophy season when Lavy was able to get him a lot of offensive zone starts and avoid a lot of heavy lifting against other teams' top lines.

Unfortunately, no one who has a top-end D man in his prime and locked into a multi-year dear is about to trade the guy.

The Flyers need to get a little lucky.... basically like a latter day version of the deal with Montreal that netted Desjardins and LeClair. But there probably isn't such a deal out there to be made, and Brayden Schenn (even if you think he will blossom into stardom) is nowhere near the trading chip that an in-his-prime Mark Recchi was back in 1995.

Sad but true.

Damn it.

That goes against everything I believe, but Ghost needs more time, because of how the defense is constructed. If Coburn were around, everything would be different, but he isn't.

You're right. I hate to say it because watching the corpses of Ryan Whitney or Carlo Coliacovo, et al, is going to make a grown man cry.

Maybe get Ghost one more game so he can have a better feel for what he needs to do, then send him back and try to steal points for a month.
- AllInForFlyers

oh yeah i'd let ghost get a few games. but no way no how am i going to be for giving up any picks for a month of no coburn/macdonald. nooo way. flyers play better when everything and everything is against them anyway. they'll still win a few games.

i will say i want no part of derek morris.

what would it take to steal David Perron from the Oilers ?
he's -6 and 0goals (he does have 5 assists)

howabout Brandon Manning and a 2nd rounder ?

what would it take to steal David Perron from the Oilers ?
he's -6 and 0goals (he does have 5 assists)

howabout Brandon Manning and a 2nd rounder ?
- MrBigglesworth

They would want BSchenn for him.

They just seem to play with more confidence against the Pens. I think the Wings are more structured than the Pens. They lack the backend talent the Pens have though.
- PhillySportsGuy

Pens play a breakout style that the Flyers seem to know how to stop, and the Pens get flustered rather than adjust.

The Wings are a much more patient team.

We're collecting wins just off the skin of our ass. Simmonds starts hot but hasn't collected a point in four straight games now. With exception of last night, the top line always looks flashy but doesn't always convert when we need them to. They look good right now but it's almost as if they're taking over Simmonds hot start, while we have one guy who shows up a game. Raffl last night, Couturier Wednesday.
- SuperSchennBros

I think it comes down to more than just one player (obviously). Wednesday - Couturier's whole unit played amazing (TSN had a great breakdown/analysis of Sean's line from the Pens game).

Last night Raffl played very well. Voracek has continued his great play and production. Grossmann played a whale of a game (despite a few brainfarts like blatantly icing the puck in the waning moments of the 3rd period). Emery was unreal. Umberger has started to look a bit stronger on the puck and has really stood out on the PK IMO. MDZ is starting to make plays more consistently.

They would want BSchenn for him.
- Feanor

I think I would do that deal

It's a game not brain surgery
- JoeRussomanno

Which is why I don't know how you don't understand this concept

i am not a fan of berube's handling of some players, but i am willfully and blissfully ignorant of x's and o's. so i'll ask in here, i know some of you are into that... did berube make an adjustment that allowed them to finally start bringing the puck into the offensive zone or did they just get lucky.
- -davies-

bump

oh yeah i'd let ghost get a few games. but no way no how am i going to be for giving up any picks for a month of no coburn/macdonald. nooo way. flyers play better when everything and everything is against them anyway. they'll still win a few games.

i will say i want no part of derek morris.
- -davies-

Nor do I. Every guy out there is out there for a reason: They have significant flaws. Painful, in some cases.

There are maybe...13 or 14 games before Nov. 26, or one month from now. They need to find a way to win four or five of them outright, with multiple games against Florida, one against Edmonton, so on and so forth. They need to get to OT in five, even if they lose. Then you can dump the others in regulation and still be in the mix when (hopefully) Coburn and MacDonald return.

It's going to be difficult. Ugly on some nights. But it's doable.

But damn, it's gonna be ugly on some nights.

Phantoms highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQiJfALDgzw