So if the Flyers win the Cup this year, you can count Luke Schenn as a top contributor since he was 5th overall?
- jmatchett383

Didn't VLC go 1st overall?
We got it covered!!

Recency bias?
- bradleyc4

Going back 20 years, these are the years the Flyers picked in the 2nd round:
95
97 (2)
98 (2)
06 (3)
07
12
13
14
of those, only Nodl in 2006 played more that 15 games in the NHL, most of the 2nd rounders never made the big club...Not a whole lot of picks, and not much talent pulled from that pick when they did have it...the jury is still out on the last 3 years..

Didn't VLC go 1st overall?
We got it covered!!
- BiggE

And B Schenn was 5th overall. But we're doomed because we don't have players who were highly-touted prospects, or something.

Sure because he is definitely on the same level of the likes of Yzerman, Neidermayer, Crosby or even Lecavalier and E.staal. I could also point out that there has only been 1 cup winner, the 2008 Detroit, since the Rangers in 1994 to win a cup without finishing bottom 10 in the league twice 6 years prior to their first cup, but I am sure you think that is some random meaningless coincidence because all those picks didn't play for the winning team. Even though a lot times those pieces were used in important trades. But hey the Flyers commitment to being competitive has payed of with multiple cup wins in the last 30+ years... Oh wait.

I do have an edit though in that Peter Forsberg was taken 6th overall and not top 5 although one could say he wouldn't even be on the Aves without #1 overall Lindros.
- psuhockey

But what about all the teams that had top picks but never developed into cup winners?

Going back 20 years, these are the years the Flyers picked in the 2nd round:
95
97 (2)
98 (2)
06 (3)
07
12
13
14
of those, only Nodl in 2006 played more that 15 games in the NHL, most of the 2nd rounders never made the big club...Not a whole lot of picks, and not much talent pulled from that pick when they did have it...the jury is still out on the last 3 years..
- JW98FlyerFan

Wasn't the infamous dancing Kevin Marshall a 2nd rounder?

I don't necessarliy agree with what Bill has to say in regards to Mason. Steve Mason makes enough big saves( Emery has as well) to keep the team in the game and to ask him to make "one more big save" is IMO wrong. How about asking the team to step up and support their netminder by playing some defense. Instead they continue to play recklessly and leave it up to the goalie to bail them out. The goaltending has been very good this year and is in no way the reason why the Flyers have the start they have.
- Daveflyers36

Ooooooh. Thou shall not dispute facts with GOD! You will pay with your first born!

Who else? They haven't had many 2nd round picks in the last 10 years really. Nodl? Marshall? Ratchuk? Were those guys hyped like these current guys?
- PhillySportsGuy

Sort of my point. There haven't been many to compare to.

But to be fair, Stolarz and Hagg are pretty well thought of among analysts. It's not a Philadelphia-driven sentiment.

Thanks Bill. My gripe with Coby is that he makes mistakes under pressure, and is lazy at times. If you can get Coby to move side to side, he seems to lose his composure, and his ability to adjust. He looks like a north, south kind of guy to me, rather than an east, west player. In addition, when he decides to pinch or pass, he often does so at the wrong times. How many times have we seen Coby try to pass up the middle from the boards, only to have that pass intercepted by the other team's forwards?
On the flip side, Coby isn't terribly slow on his skates, and he does work the corners well.
One surprise to me is Johnny Boychuck. Have you seen this guys stats for last season? His plus, minus was ridiculous. and he did chip in a few points. My knock against him, is his speed. However, if he makes sound defensive decisions, I might be able to overlook those things. I think that the Islanders did well in picking him up. Maybe he isn't a top line pairing, but man, the numbers don't lie about his ability to play the defensive position.
I can't wait for some of these defensive contracts to expire. I hope that Hexy isn't going to fall into that trap like Homer did.

Wasn't the infamous dancing Kevin Marshall a 2nd rounder?
- jmatchett383

Yes, 2007

Wasn't the infamous dancing Kevin Marshall a 2nd rounder?
- jmatchett383

You can use all of your fingers to count the number of games he played though (if you consider thumbs fingers)

You can use all of your fingers to count the number of games he played though (if you consider thumbs fingers)
- Streit2ThePoint

All of the games he's played so far.

L. Schenn was a top 5 draft pick, it's his 7th year in the NHL, and the Flyers traded a 30 goal power forward for him.

We have to worry about sheltering him? At this stage shouldn't he be at the very least anchoring a second pairing? He's last in icetime on a patchwork defense core that has been playing without Coburn all year, and no Timonen. It's sink or swim time.
- PLindbergh31

I slam the door, BOOM!
When I come into the bedroom, WHAM WHAM!
'Cause I'm the king of the castle.

You can use all of your fingers to count the number of games he played though (if you consider thumbs fingers)
- Streit2ThePoint

Still hate to see PK Subban two picks later , and Simmer at the end of the round...it is a crazy business trying to judge who will be an NHL player and who will not...

It grates me just to see Luke Schenn on the ice at this point, but I think you have to keep running him out there on the off chance that he finds his game.

I'd give it another couple of weeks before I start asking "should I bench Luke Schenn", but I don't know if Berube will. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Schenn was scratched when Coburn said he was ready to be back in the lineup.
- johndewar

Personally, I would hope that Berube does scratch Luke for at least a game. I think we can all conclude that he will never live up to all the hype placed around him when he was drafted, but we have seen him play better than this.

I'm sure he knows he needs to be more consistent, but enabling his inconsistent play and sub par defensive coverage every night so far even in limited minutes drives me insane. I know the "send him a message" idea is so cliche, but I'd rather try that and keep Schultz in the lineup when Coburn comes back than continue to see L Schenn stumble around the ice like he has vertigo (apologies to those with vertigo)

Sort of my point. There haven't been many to compare to.

But to be fair, Stolarz and Hagg are pretty well thought of among analysts. It's not a Philadelphia-driven sentiment.
- bradleyc4

The overall theme is that I think the flyers have done a much better job of gathering prospects after the first round. Whether it's due to keeping the picks, better scouting or just not wasting them on boxers, it was improved.

I would love for them to recoup that 2015 second rounder they lost in the Amac deal somehow

Thanks Bill. My gripe with Coby is that he makes mistakes under pressure, and is lazy at times. If you can get Coby to move side to side, he seems to lose his composure, and his ability to adjust. He looks like a north, south kind of guy to me, rather than an east, west player. In addition, when he decides to pinch or pass, he often does so at the wrong times. How many times have we seen Coby try to pass up the middle from the boards, only to have that pass intercepted by the other team's forwards?
On the flip side, Coby isn't terribly slow on his skates, and he does work the corners well.
- OrangeAndBlack1

"Coby" makes him sound like a dog.

But what about all the teams that had top picks but never developed into cup winners?
- PhillySportsGuy

Picks alone aren't everything. There is a luck component for one. If Philly bottomed out in 2008 instead of 2007 they get Doughty instead of JVR. The other thing is picking the right players. Edmonton failed because they picked wingers instead of more important positions like center and defenseman. How would that team look today with Seguin, RNH, and Murray as its core?

Bottoming out helps in a lot of other ways than just picks in the top 5. It gives you picks at the top of the 2nd, where talent drys up rapidly from the beginning to the end. It allows to move out other players for picks which increase your chance of hitting on top shelf talent. And in the salary cap world, it should help in creating space by moving out contracts.

Why is this fan base so against bottoming out? The league rules are set up to punish middle of the roads teams. Look at the last cup winners. The majority have bottomed out including Boston. Detroit is the only one and they are about to be stuck in the crappy middle too.

Still hate to see PK Subban two picks later , and Simmer at the end of the round...it is a crazy business trying to judge who will be an NHL player and who will not...
- JW98FlyerFan

Some teams are obviously better than others, but there is definitely a certain amount of luck involved. Like how things unraveled in the Giroux draft. Without that luck, we'd be checking the Sabres and Canes box score each night

I really thought about taking him too, wish I did. Hell I wish I remembered to be online for the draft time ended up with Bob and Howard
- Streit2ThePoint

That's not bad though. Howard should be better this year than last year, I think.

I started out with Craig Anderson as my number one and then had Ramo and maybe Justin Peters. I swiftly dropped Peters when I saw that Kuemper was somehow on the FA list. I think a lot of people didn't realize the goalie injuries for MN at the moment. I lucked out.

Who else? They haven't had many 2nd round picks in the last 10 years really. Nodl? Marshall? Ratchuk? Were those guys hyped like these current guys?
- PhillySportsGuy

That's the black hole I'm talking about.

The overall theme is that I think the flyers have done a much better job of gathering prospects after the first round. Whether it's due to keeping the picks, better scouting or just not wasting them on boxers, it was improved.

I would love for them to recoup that 2015 second rounder they lost in the Amac deal somehow
- PhillySportsGuy

I think it comes back at the TDL

The off-chance that he becomes a better skater, improves his hockey sense and stops overthinking everything on the ice?
- bradleyc4

The first thing is what it is.

The second two, he can be coached up a bit. Maybe Gord Murphy has answers, maybe he doesn't.

I agree with your overall point, however. There's gonna come a time when Fat Schenn has to account for himself.

Picks alone aren't everything. There is a luck component for one. If Philly bottomed out in 2008 instead of 2007 they get Doughty instead of JVR. The other thing is picking the right players. Edmonton failed because they picked wingers instead of more important positions like center and defenseman. How would that team look today with Seguin, RNH, and Murray as its core?

Bottoming out helps in a lot of other ways than just picks in the top 5. It gives you picks at the top of the 2nd, where talent drys up rapidly from the beginning to the end. It allows to move out other players for picks which increase your chance of hitting on top shelf talent. And in the salary cap world, it should help in creating space by moving out contracts.

Why is this fan base so against bottoming out? The league rules are set up to punish middle of the roads teams. Look at the last cup winners. The majority have bottomed out including Boston. Detroit is the only one and they are about to be stuck in the crappy middle too.
- psuhockey

Because, if you pay for tickets to go to games, it sucks to go to games that aren't competitive.

The overall theme is that I think the flyers have done a much better job of gathering prospects after the first round. Whether it's due to keeping the picks, better scouting or just not wasting them on boxers, it was improved.

I would love for them to recoup that 2015 second rounder they lost in the Amac deal somehow
- PhillySportsGuy

Luke Schenn soon and Grossmann at the deadline could certainly net us 2 2nd rounders in 2015 and I'd do it. I don't care bout this season, no matter what they do they have 0 chance of winning the cup. And as far next year goes, I'm fine with replacing L Schenn, Grossman and MDZ with some combo of Ghost, Alt, Morin, Hagg and/or one UFA.