It's a mindset among too many players on the team.

I remember a power play where Crosby's unit came off with something like 1:13 left on it. Crosby had just tried a pass across ice through players that was picked off and then the second unit came on. I liked that because maybe it shows some people are not happy with that unit doing those things?

Penguins have everything they need to win...except the team's key members need to lead by example more at the critical points in the game and too often they don't.
- icedog97

they still could use a top six and another bottom six forward, just to nitpick on this, but Crosby and Malkin do need to lead. That is a big reason Tocchet and the new staff was brought in. They will, hopefully and Tocchet has done it before, help these guys redifine their games to be more leaders on and off the ice. It will take some time and probably some bad losses, but you have to work the kinks out and that doesn't happen in one game.

they still could use a top six and another bottom six forward, just to nitpick on this, but Crosby and Malkin do need to lead. That is a big reason Tocchet and the new staff was brought in. They will, hopefully and Tocchet has done it before, help these guys redifine their games to be more leaders on and off the ice. It will take some time and probably some bad losses, but you have to work the kinks out and that doesn't happen in one game.
- usethe1-2-2

I don't think we have a glaring need for a bottom six forward at all but I agree entirely with the bold statement. And not only them but Letang has to act like a veteran now. Sutter/Dupuis already do a good job in the leadership dptmt.

Sill is starting to look like he has Joe Vitale syndrome, play hard until you get to the big show then vomits all over himself, but honestly 4th line is playing pretty well its October after 20 games we can gauge where this team is.

Despres had a great game last night though. He was physical, moved the puck well, put a couple of good low shots on net for redirects and was the primary assist on Kunitz' goal with his breakout pass.

Scuds wasn't exactly awful last night either. He certainly wasn't great but he was a bit better than normal.

Martin had a rough game. Letang and Maatta, although easily our best defensive pairing and were used everywhere last night, had a few costly errors.

I'm not worried about the D. Even Pouliot or Harrington or Bortuzzo could fill in and I think the D is fine. The forward core is going to be a different story.
- usethe1-2-2

I guess this proves 2 people can view the same game and walk away with differing opinions. I thought he was terrible last night. Fumbling the puck. Seemed lost at times in his own end. I dunno, perhaps I'm missing something. I'm willing to give him time to see what he has. That what the regular season is for right?

I see negative comments about our 3rd and 4th line guys but I don't understand it.

Those guys are not the reason we lost the last two games.

Penguin fans are spoiled...and we knit pick too often because we are so used to winning.

Our top guys have cost us these games more than anyone else.

I kinda hope this trend plays out a little longer.

It's not time to panic but it might not be such a bad thing if there is a little backlash from fans...a little panic that the team feels from it's fans.

All three losses have come in games where they looked significantly better than the other team to start and/or played with a lead for most of the game. There are lessons to be learned by the players and coaches. The bad part is, I don't think the players are capable of learning the lessons...they have't yet after how many years?...so the coaches better figure it out because they are the ones that will have to affect change by altering ice time in accordance with positive/negative play.

So, trying to be positive...

- Love the PP and the puck movement. Any PP ranking > 5 and I'd be shocked.

- Liked Greiss. Want to see more. Little bit of Vokoun in him. Compact with movement. Stocky. Calm.

- Want to see more Erhoff on the PP. That shot is pretty freakin good. And he gets it off quick. PP: Letang, Erhoff, Sid, Malkin, Horny. Nice balance of righty, lefty, net front presence, passing, shooting, puck retrieval.

- Loving me some Horny. He gets to the dirty areas. Creates havoc. Hustles. Checks a bit. Team needs more of that. Neal could score 50 this year and I'll still take Horny on my team.

I see negative comments about our 3rd and 4th line guys but I don't understand it.

Those guys are not the reason we lost the last two games.

Penguin fans are spoiled...and we knit pick too often because we are so used to winning.

Our top guys have cost us these games more than anyone else.

I kinda hope this trend plays out a little longer.

It's not time to panic but it might not be such a bad thing if there is a little backlash from fans...a little panic that the team feels from it's fans.

All three losses have come in games where they looked significantly better than the other team to start and/or played with a lead for most of the game. There are lessons to be learned by the players and coaches. The bad part is, I don't think the players are capable of learning the lessons...they have't yet after how many years?...so the coaches better figure it out because they are the ones that will have to affect change by altering ice time in accordance with positive/negative play.
- icedog97

Sid even mentioned as much in his post game. Something to the effect of "we said after the Dallas game we learned our lesson and yet we do it again".

Overall, I agree with much of your post.

That's why I want a bit of adversity this year. Things have been way too easy for this team the past few years and I think they have lost some of the edge they had in 08 and 09. Perhaps winning the Cup so soon made them think it was going to be easy.

I see negative comments about our 3rd and 4th line guys but I don't understand it.

Those guys are not the reason we lost the last two games.

Penguin fans are spoiled...and we knit pick too often because we are so used to winning.

Our top guys have cost us these games more than anyone else.

I kinda hope this trend plays out a little longer.

It's not time to panic but it might not be such a bad thing if there is a little backlash from fans...a little panic that the team feels from it's fans.

All three losses have come in games where they looked significantly better than the other team to start and/or played with a lead for most of the game. There are lessons to be learned by the players and coaches. The bad part is, I don't think the players are capable of learning the lessons...they have't yet after how many years?...so the coaches better figure it out because they are the ones that will have to affect change by altering ice time in accordance with positive/negative play.
- icedog97

I generally agree however Sill and Adams aren't NHL players. Not being able to trust them in tight games makes this a 3 line team. A few years ago that was a roll Adams thrived in.

That's why I said this team could use a healthy dose of Mike Therrien. A coach that does not shy away from telling the truth regardless of the size of the players contract.

I guess this proves 2 people can view the same game and walk away with differing opinions. I thought he was terrible last night. Fumbling the puck. Seemed lost at times in his own end. I dunno, perhaps I'm missing something. I'm willing to give him time to see what he has. That what the regular season is for right?
- 87_71_11_29

Exactly, if everyone came to the same conclusion it is usually about someone who is really really good or really really bad.

With Despres I look at how effective his game is rather than how aesthetically pleasing it is. He looks awkward, he looks unhappy, but he gets the job done.

For me, he doesn't ever have to become a top 4 legit defender. If he becomes an above average third pairing guy who can hit, skate, and generate offense I am happy. His contracts won't be expensive compared to getting a UFA defender.

I guess this proves 2 people can view the same game and walk away with differing opinions. I thought he was terrible last night. Fumbling the puck. Seemed lost at times in his own end. I dunno, perhaps I'm missing something. I'm willing to give him time to see what he has. That what the regular season is for right?
- 87_71_11_29

I get the same nervous feeling when Despress gets the puck as I do when MAF does. Something terrible has a good chance of happening.

I thought Griess played OK, need to see more. Howard was excellent, Crosby needs to burry that breakaway, time to take Kunitz off the PP and put Ehroff on, Martin is slightly better than average, Ehroff does everything Martin can but with a better shot and better D, Kromwall is awesome, did "Geno Machino already make his October performance?

So the bridge jumpers from post game didn't make it in this morning?

Hey, if I am being honest here I would take our situation any day over what happened in Boston to start the season. They are in for a very tough stretch. The trade of Boychuk and injury to Chara is much worse than learning a new system and going through a few growing pains.

You think Boston would want scuds with chara and boychuk out?? I smell a trade partner

I generally agree however Sill and Adams aren't NHL players. Not being able to trust them in tight games makes this a 3 line team. A few years ago that was a roll Adams thrived in.

That's why I said this team could use a healthy dose of Mike Therrien. A coach that does not shy away from telling the truth regardless of the size of the players contract.
- madmike71

Now we want to change the coach? jokes aside, it's good to get adversity now. We'll be better on the long run.

You think Boston would want scuds with chara and boychuk out?? I smell a trade partner
- nh4442

I pray they come calling for Scuderi and we can follow that by trading Martin for a top 6 forward. Harrington and Bortuzzo are ready to step in IMO.

I'm not to the bridge yet, their schedule has bit a bit inconsistent. 2 games, 4 days off, 2 games 3 days off. Losses to PHI, DAL, and DET this early aren't good though. Seems last few years they struggle against the legit contenders.

heres one you guys will hate..

PIT:
Fleury
Sutter
4th

EDM:
Eberle
Fasth
3rd

I'd trade Martin to Boston for Reilly Smith or Carl Soderberg + Joe Morrow

heres one you guys will hate..

PIT:
Fleury
Sutter
4th

EDM:
Eberle
Fasth
3rd
- YouMeAndDupuis9

No way EDM makes that trade.

heres one you guys will hate..

PIT:
Fleury
Sutter
4th

EDM:
Eberle
Fasth
3rd
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Any trade you can get EBERLE is a win situation. Loved it.

heres one you guys will hate..

PIT:
Fleury
Sutter
4th

EDM:
Eberle
Fasth
3rd
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Why would Edmonton trade basically Eberle for Sutter?

Why would Edmonton trade basically Eberle for Sutter?
- rival22

I think fleury would be the key here... edm hasn't had a goalie with fleury skills in yrs.... I kinda like the trade but I think it would be our 3rd and their 4th... to make it more even...

If sutter does get traded are we using spaling as 3rd line center or do we ask sundqvist to come back?

Well with D's getting hurt or suspended teams have to be calling JR with the pens having so many nhl ready D